Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker **Spoilers from post 2076**

Drumpot

I don’t really get this Mark Hamill stuff. What’s wrong with him giving honest appraisals of the movies? I don’t care if it upsets Disney and he got paid to make the movie. I think it’s refreshing to read an actor give a non filtered opinion of something they are working on and clearly do care about.

And on the opposite spectrum just because Mark Hamill doesn’t love how his characters story went doesn’t mean that your opinion is any more valid if you concur with him. What is it with people wanting to be right about what is essentially an opinion?

I can see both sides of the argument but simply choose to try and enjoy what we get. Some people waste a lot of energy being angry and venting (even before movies are released) way too much.

Mr Crispy

RayCun wrote: »

More importantly, Ford wouldn't agree to it.

Well, yeah. I don't think anyone was taking it as actually being possible.

tigger123

py2006 wrote: »

Well they ignored Mark Hamill issues with it.

I just think he/they ruined what JJ set up with Rey and Luke.

And George Lucas ignored Harrison Fords issues with the original movies.

Its moved now from what you're saying motivated Rian Johnson in making TLJ, to your own opinion on TFA.

py2006

tigger123 wrote: »

And George Lucas ignored Harrison Fords issues with the original movies.

Its moved now from what you're saying motivated Rian Johnson in making TLJ, to your own opinion on TFA.

I haven't given my opinion of TFA yet?!? I liked it. Not perfect, but I enjoyed it.

I was excited to see Luke and Rey in the TLJ and I just think it was a real feck you to what people hoped for and what was set up by TFA.

pixelburp

Whatever else people may think of Last Jedi, good or bad, Rian Johnson didn't set out to make something to anger or annoy fans. There's a fair question of 'Death of the Author' at play here with Star Wars; where fans en masse kicked against a genuinely creative, authorial direction Johnson took the characters - but one that they felt wasn't his to make.

Some of us may not like the direction or its end-result, but it can't be accused of being cynical, trolling or lazy IMO.

Dades

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

pixelburp wrote: »

Whatever else people may think of Last Jedi, good or bad, Rian Johnson didn't set out to make something to anger or annoy fans. There's a fair question of 'Death of the Author' at play here with Star Wars; where fans en masse kicked against a genuinely creative, authorial direction Johnson took the characters - but one that they felt wasn't his to make.

Some of us may not like the direction or its end-result, but it can't be accused of being cynical, trolling or lazy IMO.

The only caveat to the above would be the death of Snoke.

Where Abrams may have been setting him up for the long term, Johnson had no issue dispatching of him and making KR the key antagonist. This seems to have forced Abrams into bringing back the guy Snoke was emulating in the first place.

Drumpot

Dades wrote: »

The only caveat to the above would be the death of Snoke.

Where Abrams may have been setting him up for the long term, Johnson had no issue dispatching of him and making KR the key antagonist. This seems to have forced Abrams into bringing back the guy Snoke was emulating in the first place.

Genuinely asking, is that just your opinion or is that common knowledge, is there evidence backing this line of thought up ?

I find it odd that, given how much joined up planning there is with Marvel, that in SW the director was allowed to go it Solo and make up their own story. It doesn't mean it didn't happen but its difficult to imagine Disney effectively winging it with such a major franchise and no real plan for a final of a trilogy.

Sad Professor

Dades wrote: »

The only caveat to the above would be the death of Snoke.

Where Abrams may have been setting him up for the long term, Johnson had no issue dispatching of him and making KR the key antagonist. This seems to have forced Abrams into bringing back the guy Snoke was emulating in the first place.

We don't know that Palps will be playing that kind of role in Ep9 but even if he is, Johnson killing Snoke didn't force JJ to go that route. There's no reason why Kylo couldn't have occupied the main villain role by himself. If JJ has decided to rehash ROTJ that's his choice.

Kilboor

Please don't be as childish or cringe as the last one and I'll be happy. More like the first please

CinemaGuy45

Total flop and a financial loss for Disney

Sad Professor wrote: »

We don't know that Palps will be playing that kind of role in Ep9 but even if he is, Johnson killing Snoke didn't force JJ to go that route. There's no reason why Kylo couldn't have occupied the main villain role by himself. If JJ has decided to rehash ROTJ that's his choice.

The bit in bold unfounded and unfair speculation.

JJ is great at fresh and original ideas just look at Star Trek Into Darkness.

BloodBath

It can be accused of being by far the worst in the franchise and objectively a bad film. You don't make a star wars movie and piss on everything that came before it, including the movie that came directly before it when there's another to come after. Kennedy should have been sacked already for not coming up with a story arc over the 3 movies. Lucas should have been a consultant from the start.

JJ might have played it too safe with TFA but it was at least respectful to Georges work, the fans, and was a good starting point for the new trilogy. Practically all of which was pissed on by Johnson right from the start.

Big emotional meeting with Luke, turned into a gag where he tosses his lightsaber over his shoulder.

Piss on Luke's legacy.

Rey's origins, not important, shes nobody.

Who is Snoke? Not important, kill him off leaving emo Vader as the top villian, yawn.

Who is Captain Phasma? Not important, dead.

1 final battle for Luke? Nah just a projection and then he dies anyway. Fantastic!

That's without ripping apart all the lousy plot lines, characters, terrible inappropriate humour and waste of screen time that Johnson introduced.

So much screen time wasted on plot lines and characters that went nowhere while destroying interesting characters and not developing them in any way. That is just bad storytelling.

Everything about this is cynical and lazy and shows no respect for JJ or George and was merely an attempt to "subvert our expectations". Well congrats Rian. You certainly did that. I expected a good movie and got an abomination. The guy is a lazy hack. I don't know how anyone could defend him or this trash movie.

RayCun

BloodBath wrote: »

objectively

:pac:

BloodBath

RayCun wrote: »

:pac:

Great input.

pixelburp

BloodBath wrote: »

It can be accused of being by far the worst in the franchise and objectively a bad film.

No, it's not "objectively" a bad film, because clearly you can't make that kind of arbitrary judgement on a patently subjective medium, no matter how much you personally hated what Last Jedi did with the story.

BloodBath

Alright. It's been analysed to death already on why it's a bad movie anyway. If you want to take that as opinions that's fine.

pixelburp

Indeed it has been, but doesn't make it objectively a bad movie, just an controversial/unpopular one

Dades

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

Drumpot wrote: »

Genuinely asking, is that just your opinion or is that common knowledge, is there evidence backing this line of thought up ?

I find it odd that, given how much joined up planning there is with Marvel, that in SW the director was allowed to go it Solo and make up their own story. It doesn't mean it didn't happen but its difficult to imagine Disney effectively winging it with such a major franchise and no real plan for a final of a trilogy.

When I say it seem, I should have said it seems to me.

Maybe Johnson told them he had a different vision and insisted on it. They let him go solo with the daftest core plot in any SW movie for a start!

Sad Professor wrote: »

We don't know that Palps will be playing that kind of role in Ep9 but even if he is, Johnson killing Snoke didn't force JJ to go that route. There's no reason why Kylo couldn't have occupied the main villain role by himself. If JJ has decided to rehash ROTJ that's his choice.

But surely Johnson killing Snoke forced him to go down some route. Given Abram's penchant playing the OT's greatest hits, there's nothing to suggest that Snoke (Abram's creation) wasn't going to be the trilogy antagonist. He didn't even reveal him fully in TFA suggesting a bigger role to play in future films.

RayCun

This suggests you think Abrams was planning to remake Return of the Jedi in the last movie and that would have been fine with you.

pixelburp

Regardless what changes Johnson made in his movie, Abrams is in a unique situation: he has to finish a story he started. If anything, he's saddled with fewer Mystery Boxes than he otherwise might have been forced to address, but either way he's going to have to stick the landing, for once (and I don't believe he ever had fully formed ideas as to where all those spinning wheels were going to stop)

ogsjw

pixelburp wrote: »

(and I don't believe he ever had fully formed ideas as to where all those spinning wheels were going to stop)

Why are you talking in the past tense? There are re-shoots due this summer for Episode IX, I'll bet he still doesn't know! :pac:

py2006

Why didn't JJ do TLJ? Was he tied down with another project?

Sad Professor

py2006 wrote: »

Why didn't JJ do TLJ? Was he tied down with another project?

Afaik he didn't want commit to it without seeing the audience reaction to TFA first and Disney wasn't prepared to wait for him. I don't think they wanted him anyway. He's a big name director with a history of delaying films and chucking the script out. He was a safe pair of hands for the first film but they figured smaller name directors could handle the rest of the films. Millions of reshoots and several fired directors later I guess they felt differently.

ogsjw

Sad Professor wrote: »

Afaik he didn't want commit to it without seeing the audience reaction to TFA first and Disney wasn't prepared to wait for him.

Or Disney saw the audience reaction and bounced :pac:

py2006

or was it a case of audience reaction to TLJ and come back JJ all is forgiven.

johnny_ultimate

py2006 wrote: »

or was it a case of audience reaction to TLJ and come back JJ all is forgiven.

Nope: JJ Abrams was hired for Episode IX several months before TLJ released.

ogsjw

py2006 wrote: »

or was it a case of audience reaction to TLJ and come back JJ all is forgiven.

Probably, who better to retcon his own mystery boxes back in. Rian trashed it immediately. At this point as a viewer I don't even care, let them just wrap it up at this point. I'll be there Day 1 but I'm expecting absolutely nothing.



Did Rian lose that trilogy he was promised, because of the backlash of TLJ, or did he get it back? I keep hearing mixed things.

pixelburp

Johnson has probably got the bank and clout to fund his own future projects off the back of Last Jedi; why bring even more vitriol and heartache to his door from bitter fans. His work has always been vibrant and creative, so would be curious what he does next...

johnny_ultimate

He’s still on it, although who knows what form it will take: he’s finishing his next, non-SW film at the moment (Knives Out) and is working with the Game of Thrones guys on whatever’s next for the films (Disney wisely taking a bit of a hiatus once IX is out). Kennedy explicitly mentioned his involvement a few weeks ago: https://ew.com/movies/2019/04/13/lucasfilm-star-wars-movies-hiatus/

Personally would be sickened if Johnson was fired based on the angry internet people - I adore TLJ and am seriously pumped to see what he’ll do with a comparatively blank slate. Could imagine him going his own way if things don’t work out, but hopefully it all works out.

Sad Professor

I'd rather see Johnson do something else, but TLJ was the only smooth production of Disney's SW films to date, so I'd imagine they are keen to work with him again. If not I'd imagine there's other studios lining up to work with him.

Tony EH

py2006 wrote: »

Why didn't JJ do TLJ? Was he tied down with another project?

Kennedy thought it would be a great idea to give three different directors three different paths of entirely their own choosing for the trilogy.

It proved to be a fat disaster and Disney had to fall back on Abrams to fix everything that Johnson broke and Colin Trevorrow turned out to be a less than ideal choice for IX.

In other words, they hadn't a clue what they were doing, had no plan, set course to "random", and made a balls of it.