Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

Eric Cartman

everlast75 wrote: »

I happen to agree she should not run again, for different reasons, but still think she was robbed.

That being said, have you any reaction to Trump's authoritarian behaviour?

Do you agree he behaves like one? If not, why not?

If you do believe he behaves like one, do you have a problem with that?

Just curious.

I don't think she was robbed, I think had there been a better republican candidate on the ballot that she would have been walked over, A lot of voters with serious reservations were willing to vote for trump just to try keep her out, If I had US citizenship, I would definitely be one of those.

I disagree with him just bending over to Saudi, its the exact kind of thing he rallied against, clearly treating the country like a business that allows customers to treat its employees like crap.

I think he's treating the country like a business and while he's watching the 'promised product delivery' he's doing it at the cost of his staff (the population) , I can't put it in tyrant terms because I don't think he'd fathom how to do that, definitely applying 50+ years of business logic to a position that isn't quite 'being CEO'

The forest fires issue - forest maintenance and a local education campaign are definitely needed, caused by people not thinking , spurred by poor maintenance although I'm not too familiar with the structures that would allocate funding to such so I won't blame trump or make him absent from blame for that situation, but definitely handled poorly.

everlast75

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I don't think she was robbed, I think had there been a better republican candidate on the ballot that she would have been walked over, A lot of voters with serious reservations were willing to vote for trump just to try keep her out, If I had US citizenship, I would definitely be one of those.

I disagree with him just bending over to Saudi, its the exact kind of thing he rallied against, clearly treating the country like a business that allows customers to treat its employees like crap.

I think he's treating the country like a business and while he's watching the 'promised product delivery' he's doing it at the cost of his staff (the population) , I can't put it in tyrant terms because I don't think he'd fathom how to do that, definitely applying 50+ years of business logic to a position that isn't quite 'being CEO'

The forest fires issue - forest maintenance and a local education campaign are definitely needed, caused by people not thinking , spurred by poor maintenance although I'm not too familiar with the structures that would allocate funding to such so I won't blame trump or make him absent from blame for that situation, but definitely handled poorly.

Thanks for the reply.

Assuming you are right, and he doesn't believe that his actions are authoritarian in nature...

Do you not think attacking the press is authoritarian?

Do you not think asking McGhan to prosecute HRC and Comey is authoritarian?

Do you not think using the caravan as an enemy as a political stunt was authoritarian?

Do you not think wanting his own parade was authoritarian?

And, if so, have you no problem with that?

amandstu

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-roberts-trump-obama-judge_us_5bf597f4e4b0eb6d930af693

Highlighting Trump's disdain for an independent judiciary.

Eric Cartman

everlast75 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.

Assuming you are right, and he doesn't believe that his actions are authoritarian in nature...

Do you not think attacking the press is authoritarian?

I think attacking the press as an institution is, attacking an outlet or two (like cnn or the New York times) who have given you an unfair time I would say is fair. I feel trump swings both sides of that distinction sometimes.

Do you not think asking McGhan to prosecute HRC and Comey is authoritarian?

Not if he genuinely believes crimes have been committed , which I believe he believes true, as do I . Asking for them to be locked up without trial would be, but I don't believe thats been asked.

Do you not think using the caravan as an enemy as a political stunt was authoritarian?

No, I think the migrant caravan shouldn't be allowed in and it plays right into one of the reasons he was elected, to get tough on immigration.

Do you not think wanting his own parade was authoritarian?

Can I get some info on this, I haven't seen anything about this.

And, if so, have you no problem with that?

I think US politics is always louder, bolder and more brash than we're used to in Europe, A certain portion of it I would put down to cultural differences , another portion to his own narcissism, I think every political leader and political system is authoritarian to a degree, You've a sliding scale from say Ron Paul to Kim Jong Un, its just a question of where is the right number to start calling it a problem.

dr.fuzzenstein

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Yeah I suppose they weren't onboard with trump at the start :pac::pac:

But Genuinely, Hillary Clinton was the worse candidate, blah blah blah blah.

Not a single fact, substantiated allegation, credible source or anything of any substance whatsoever.
So, well, yeah, that's just like, your opinion, man

batgoat

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I think attacking the press as an institution is, attacking an outlet or two (like cnn or the New York times) who have given you an unfair time I would say is fair. I feel trump swings both sides of that distinction sometimes.

Not if he genuinely believes crimes have been committed , which I believe he believes true, as do I . Asking for them to be locked up without trial would be, but I don't believe thats been asked.

No, I think the migrant caravan shouldn't be allowed in and it plays right into one of the reasons he was elected, to get tough on immigration.

Can I get some info on this, I haven't seen anything about this.

I think US politics is always louder, bolder and more brash than we're used to in Europe, A certain portion of it I would put down to cultural differences , another portion to his own narcissism, I think every political leader and political system is authoritarian to a degree, You've a sliding scale from say Ron Paul to Kim Jong Un, its just a question of where is the right number to start calling it a problem.

In relation to believing crimes were done, I've seen no indication of such a belief. He's just playing to his base. You've already said that you've gained respect for him if he's committed tax fraud so some crimes are all good. And we have far more of an indication of Trump being a criminal than we have of Hillary.

In terms of calling the press an enemy of the people and his pretty low attacks on his opponents including playing up to the anti semites, that endangered lives,what do you think motivated the Maga Bomber? His treatment of opponents is more akin to Duterte.

Christy42

batgoat wrote: »

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I think attacking the press as an institution is, attacking an outlet or two (like cnn or the New York times) who have given you an unfair time I would say is fair. I feel trump swings both sides of that distinction sometimes.

Not if he genuinely believes crimes have been committed , which I believe he believes true, as do I . Asking for them to be locked up without trial would be, but I don't believe thats been asked.

No, I think the migrant caravan shouldn't be allowed in and it plays right into one of the reasons he was elected, to get tough on immigration.

Can I get some info on this, I haven't seen anything about this.

I think US politics is always louder, bolder and more brash than we're used to in Europe, A certain portion of it I would put down to cultural differences , another portion to his own narcissism, I think every political leader and political system is authoritarian to a degree, You've a sliding scale from say Ron Paul to Kim Jong Un, its just a question of where is the right number to start calling it a problem.

In relation to believing crimes were done, I've seen no indication of such a belief. He's just playing to his base. You've already said that you've gained respect for him if he's committed tax fraud so some crimes are all good. And we have far more of an indication of Trump being a criminal than we have of Hillary.

In terms of calling the press an enemy of the people and his pretty low attacks on his opponents including playing up to the anti semites, that endangered lives,what do you think motivated the Maga Bomber? His treatment of opponents is more akin to Duterte.

Don't forget his frequent indications that anyone related to Obama can't be trusted.

Obama judge, Obama judge used to discredit the speakers opinion. He can only attack the man, never the content and does so by saying the other side of the aisle should never be listened to.

The soldiers returning home show that they were used as a publicity stunt. They were used as an ad campaign. Debasing the military for a photoshoot.

serfboard

Christy42 wrote: »

The soldiers returning home show that they were used as a publicity stunt. They were used as an ad campaign. Debasing the military for a photoshoot.

Can't stand Trump, but in fairness to him, he wouldn't be the first politician to do someting like this.

Furthermore, if he was a real authoritarian (as some here are saying), the troops would be out on the streets of American cities - or off fighting a foreign war to distract from problems at home.

And again in fairness to him, he's started no new wars (yet!). A lot of commentators thought he'd have a few under his belt by this stage ...

And with the midterms, the constitutional checks and balances are about to kick in, so I think it unlikely that he'll start any foreign adventures from here on out.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

*cough* trade war(s) *cough*

Imagine being able to win a "war", without firing a single bullet?

serfboard wrote: »

Can't stand Trump, but in fairness to him, he wouldn't be the first politician to do someting like this.

Furthermore, if he was a real authoritarian (as some here are saying), the troops would be out on the streets of American cities - or off fighting a foreign war to distract from problems at home.

And again in fairness to him, he's started no new wars (yet!). A lot of commentators thought he'd have a few under his belt by this stage ...

And with the midterms, the constitutional checks and balances are about to kick in, so I think it unlikely that he'll start any foreign adventures from here on out.

prawnsambo

serfboard wrote: »

Can't stand Trump, but in fairness to him, he wouldn't be the first politician to do someting like this.

Furthermore, if he was a real authoritarian (as some here are saying), the troops would be out on the streets of American cities - or off fighting a foreign war to distract from problems at home.

And again in fairness to him, he's started no new wars (yet!). A lot of commentators thought he'd have a few under his belt by this stage ...

And with the midterms, the constitutional checks and balances are about to kick in, so I think it unlikely that he'll start any foreign adventures from here on out.

He doesn't have to have the troops on the streets or start a war to be an authoritarian. In any event, he'd require a bit more than an executive order to do that. So the best he can do is send them to the border to fight imaginary MS13 and ISIS immigrants. And he has all the right ideas too. Can't curtail the press, so marginalises them and undermines them at every turn. And of course ensures he's surrounded by yes men and women.

So far, the constitution has tied his hands and is slowly reeling him in. We'll see how that plays out in the coming months.

serfboard

Keira Orange Store wrote: »

*cough* trade war(s) *cough*

Good one!

And the trade wars aren't just playing to his base - they are also playing to a most important electorate of steel and manufacturing workers (and former workers) from the Purple States who flipped to Trump in 2016 and gave him the Presidency.

dr.fuzzenstein

Trump is getting a lot of flak from the Senate about backing Saudi Arabia

Washington (CNN) — Top Senate Republicans slammed President Donald Trump for his statement backing Saudi Arabia in the wake of the death and dismemberment of Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

Some in the party hopefully growing some balls.

https://edition-m.cnn.com/2018/11/20/politics/top-republicans-slam-trump-saudi-arabia-khashoggi/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.de%2F

And chief justice John Roberts has been rapping Trump's knuckles, not that Trump ever backs down.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/nation-world/article222023885.html

aloyisious

If the Chief Justice's statement about judicial independence got Don excited, Dem Congress Rep form Hawaii [Tulsi Gabbard] reference to Don Trump in respect of his thanks to Ibn Saud for the low oil prices and hinting they could be lower 'Being Saudi Arabia's bitch is not America First' should awaken his twitter account. Tulsi's remark is front page U'S media news.

PropJoe10

Going after a Chief Justice on Twitter isn't likely to end well. Trump is such a blithering idiot. He actually seems to be getting worse ever since the Mid-terms.

everlast75

Well this is the worst kind of stupid....



https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1065400254151954432?s=19

PropJoe10

everlast75 wrote: »

Well this is the worst kind of stupid....



https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1065400254151954432?s=19

Yet another one of those moments where you'd be hoping his Twitter has been hacked. These moments come around daily now.

Christy42

serfboard wrote: »

Christy42 wrote: »

The soldiers returning home show that they were used as a publicity stunt. They were used as an ad campaign. Debasing the military for a photoshoot.

Can't stand Trump, but in fairness to him, he wouldn't be the first politician to do someting like this.

Furthermore, if he was a real authoritarian (as some here are saying), the troops would be out on the streets of American cities - or off fighting a foreign war to distract from problems at home.

And again in fairness to him, he's started no new wars (yet!). A lot of commentators thought he'd have a few under his belt by this stage ...

And with the midterms, the constitutional checks and balances are about to kick in, so I think it unlikely that he'll start any foreign adventures from here on out.

In fairness I would hold a low opinion of any politician who do this sort of thing. Just because you are not the first to do something does not make it justifiable in the slightest.

Yes he has not started any new wars (thanks to pretty much all south american governments for convincing him that invading Venezuela was a bad idea).

He is still blaming Johnny Foreigner for all that ills the US but hr has focused on immigration which I guess is better than starting a new war. Still an incredibly low standard.

Theses do not seem like high standards here.

And the man still does not understand climate change. The greatest threat and challenge facing us as a planet and he gets confused by having to wear a coat.

dr.fuzzenstein

aloyisious wrote: »

If the Chief Justice's statement about judicial independence got Don excited, Dem Congress Rep form Hawaii [Tulsi Gabbard] reference to Don Trump in respect of his thanks to Ibn Saud for the low oil prices and hinting they could be lower 'Being Saudi Arabia's bitch is not America First' should awaken his twitter account. Tulsi's remark is front page U'S media news.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/rep-tulsi-gabbard-eviscerates-trump-saudi-arabia-s-bitch-n939011

This is brilliant. Also:

Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., on Tuesday tweeted, "I'm pretty sure this statement is Saudi Arabia First, not America First."

And

Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Bob Corker, R-Tenn., tweeted Tuesday night, "I never thought I'd see the day a White House would moonlight as a public relations firm for the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia."

Of course we know that criticism bounces off Trump and his bots like a rubber ball off a concrete wall, but we can only hope that there is a sufficient number of people who still use their brain paying attention to this.

jooksavage

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/rep-tulsi-gabbard-eviscerates-trump-saudi-arabia-s-bitch-n939011

This is brilliant. Also:



And



Of course we know that criticism bounces off Trump and his bots like a rubber ball off a concrete wall, but we can only hope that there is a sufficient number of people who still use their brain paying attention to this.

There seems to be at least some bipartisan support in the Senate for measures against Saudi Arabia. Bill Browder has already said the Magnitsky Act is ready-made to sanction those responsible. That would be bad news for Trump - Saudis own the 45th floor of his NY tower.



God alone knows how many other connections they have to Trump - MBS is boasting about having Kushner in his pocket. Come 2019, when the Dem investigations kick into gear, the committees would be well advised to leave the Russian-collusion stuff to Mueller, start with the tax returns, and as always, follow the money.

Quin_Dub

Reading a few articles overnight that are suggesting that the random pop at Judges and the spat with Roberts are a specific tactic to deflect the news cycle away from Saudi and Ivanka..

And of course , the media are likely to fall for it..

8-10

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Some in the party hopefully growing some balls.

You've got a bunch of Republican senators newly elected to 6 year terms just last month. So they should be ballsier now.

everlast75

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Reading a few articles overnight that are suggesting that the random pop at Judges and the spat with Roberts are a specific tactic to deflect the news cycle away from Saudi and Ivanka..

And of course , the media are likely to fall for it..

I was listening to Stay Tuned and he had Chuck Todd on (who I don't particularly rate). This was before the above spat.

Todd's view was that Trump attacks someone by design, and then when they retaliate, he then can then state that any future opinion or objection is based on the fact that they are clearly biased, citing their previous retaliation. It is a way of de-legitimising an opponent.

So taken in the context of the spat with the Judge, he can now claim any future ruling against him was clearly because Roberts doesn't like him because of what he said.

Leroy42

He has been trying this with Mueller for the last two years. Problem for Trump is that Mueller hasn't shot back, so Trump is shouting in the dark.

Still, he will use his tweets are 'evidence' that Mueller was biased.

everlast75

Leroy42 wrote: »

He has been trying this with Mueller for the last two years. Problem for Trump is that Mueller hasn't shot back, so Trump is shouting in the dark.

Still, he will use his tweets are 'evidence' that Mueller was biased.

well the good news for the rest of us is that Mueller is using tweets, including his, as evidence, just ask Georgie the coffee boy!

From https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/delete-your-account-george-papadopoulos-twitter-game-comes-back-to-bite-him-in-mueller-footnotes/

Quote:

Special counsel Robert Mueller has been monitoring George Papadopoulos‘ Twitter activity closely, a Wednesday filing shows.

Papadopoulos, who pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI, is attempting to stay out of jail pending the outcome of former Roger Stone aide Andrew Miller‘s challenge of Mueller’s authority. Papadopoulos’ 14-day jail stint was scheduled to begin on Nov. 26, but he and his new legal team have attempted to put that on hold.

Mueller responded to that motion to continue Papadopoulos’ bail on Wednesday by saying that this gambit should be denied because his “motion is made for purposes of delay, and he has not presented a substantial legal question that is likely to result in reversal.”

Basically, what this boils down to is this: Papadopoulos isn’t appealing anything, he’s asking the court to put off jail until a separate appeal reaches a conclusion. Even if Papadopoulos did file an appeal, Mueller said, “the defendant’s time to file any appeal expired on September 25, 2018, fourteen days after the entry of judgment.”

“Moreover,” Mueller continued, “the defendant expressly waived his rights to appeal a sentence within the statutory range, which he received.”

On the very same page of the document are the references to Papadopoulos’ Twitter account.

Mueller pointed out that after Papadopoulos was sentenced “he made a variety of public statements that appear to be inconsistent with his stated acceptance of responsibility at sentencing.”

“For example, on October 25, 2018, the defendant publicly tweeted that his prosecution constituted ‘the biggest case of entrapment!’ Appearing on a national television show the next day, the defendant stated that he was ‘considering withdrawing his agreement’ because he should not ‘have to serve even one day in jail for something that now it seems was completely orchestrated and I was framed,'” Mueller said. “Several days later, the defendant publicly tweeted: ‘I have been sentenced to prison in our country while having exculpatory evidence hidden from me. If I knew what I knew today, I would have never plead guilty.’ On November 9, 2018, the defendant tweeted, ‘Biggest regret? Pleading guilty.’”

The amusing thing isn’t just that these tweets are no longer on Papadopoulos’ Twitter account — it’s that the special counsel saw fit to add three identical footnotes to say so.

Walter Bishop

everlast75 wrote: »

Well this is the worst kind of stupid....



https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1065400254151954432?s=19

Ah yes, the old 'it's cold today, so global warming is bull****' argument. Perhaps someone could explain the difference between weather and climate to him.


More likely they can explain it but guess what, he doesn't give a ****.

Itssoeasy

So I see that trump even on thanksgiving when the US military don't won't to be political(if they ever do publicly) he held the call to the troops live in front of cameras and complained about the 9th circuit court and the border and asked the military members their views on video. Is he actually this tone deaf and devoid of any regards for traditions and long held ways to do things ?

jobbridge4life

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So I see that trump even on thanksgiving when the US military don't won't to be political(if they ever do publicly) he held the call to the troops live in front of cameras and complained about the 9th circuit court and the border and asked the military members their views on video. Is he actually this tone deaf and devoid of any regards for traditions and long held ways to do things ?

Yes.

This isn't a 'one-liner' or a 'low quality post' it is a flat response to a question that we know, and have known, the answer to for a very long time.

everlast75

If the mods will permit some levity on thanksgiving....



https://twitter.com/IrateMillenial/status/1065636387179937798?s=19

Christy42

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/23/i-made-a-tremendous-difference-trump-heaps-thanksgiving-praise-on-himself

The man is a running joke at this point. It feels like a SNL sketch for Trump to be thankful for himself on thanksgiving. Nope that is what his focus is on. As ever a slam dunk for any politician wasted as he can't bear the thought of not talking about himself.

20Cent

serfboard wrote: »

Good one!

And the trade wars aren't just playing to his base - they are also playing to a most important electorate of steel and manufacturing workers (and former workers) from the Purple States who flipped to Trump in 2016 and gave him the Presidency.

Amazingly the help Trump has given steel and mining hasn't trickled down to the miners and steel workers. The owners are just pocketing the benefits. Looks like there will be strikes.

USW Members Vote Overwhelmingly to Authorize Strike at U.S. Steel
https://www.usw.org/news/media-center/releases/2018/usw-members-vote-overwhelmingly-to-authorize-strike-at-u-s-steel