The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

Ohmeha

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Why ? Isn’t the super bowl champion one of the teams that open at home in recent times ?

Yeah for at least the past decade it has been the Superbowl champs hosting the opening Thursday night game on NBC

Strange one, Patriots will host the Sunday night game of week 1 against a team to be confirmed, so it can't be due to the Patriots playing an opponent that would draw poor NBC ratings if it was the opening game

OldMrBrennan83

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Why ? Isn’t the super bowl champion one of the teams that open at home in recent times ?

Hundredth season thing I'd say.

j8wk2feszrnpao

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Hundredth season thing I'd say.

It is. It was mentioned on Pats radio a few weeks back. I’m glad it’s Packers v Bears so I can avoid it and Pats are on the late Sun game which is easier for me than the late Thurs.

MileHighGuy

eagle eye wrote: »

To those rating Tony G, can we hear your take on his pass and run blocking?

I'm no expert on it by any stretch, but I don't think he was a liability in the run game, and doubt he was left in to block on passing plays much. I stand to be corrected though

eagle eye

MileHighGuy wrote:

I'm no expert on it by any stretch, but I don't think he was a liability in the run game, and doubt he was left in to block on passing plays much. I stand to be corrected though

Well my memory is that he was an awfully poor run blocker for a good few years but improved a bit as he got older, still nowhere near the level of Gronk or Witten. And they tried to use him on the line a couple of times but it didn't work out well.
This is why I call Witten and Gronk the top two because they were great at the whole package.
Gonzalez was basically a receiver with the tight end moniker.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Worth noting as well that Gronk really only played 7 seasons worth of football. He missed 29 regular season games over his 9 years, which obviously doesn't include the games he went off injured.
Of Gonzalez's 17 seasons he missed 2 games. Absolutely incredible longevity.

eagle eye

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote:

Worth noting as well that Gronk really only played 7 seasons worth of football. He missed 29 regular season games over his 9 years, which obviously doesn't include the games he went off injured. Of Gonzalez's 17 seasons he missed 2 games. Absolutely incredible longevity.

Amazing how you take two seasons off him for 29 games, which is not a full two seasons and don't bother to add the 16 postseason games.

MileHighGuy

eagle eye wrote:

Well my memory is that he was an awfully poor run blocker for a good few years but improved a bit as he got older, still nowhere near the level of Gronk or Witten. And they tried to use him on the line a couple of times but it didn't work out well. This is why I call Witten and Gronk the top two because they were great at the whole package. Gonzalez was basically a receiver with the tight end moniker.

Possibly, there certainly wasn't the same amount of coverage (all 22 films) and analysis of the game available to hand out grades and statistics as we do now. Not to mention we all know the modern tight end (certainly any that will get a shout for the hall of fame) are going in for their pass productivity.

Those Chiefs team had well above average ground games while he played as part of the line, and as mentioned, although he didn't stay in to pass block often, he was excellent when he did.

All you need to know is that if gronk Continued to play for 9 more years with the same production as his first 9, he still wouldn't have the same number of catches or yards as Gonzalez. That's is not just incredible longevity, but incredible production and consistancy over a career twice as long.

Gronk was great though.

Oat23

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Hundredth season thing I'd say.

Both the league and Bears are celebrating their 100th season so yes. That is the reason.

Far better opening game than Pats v anyone.

eagle eye

MileHighGuy wrote:

Those Chiefs team had well above average ground games while he played as part of the line, and as mentioned, although he didn't stay in to pass block often, he was excellent when he did.

He was awful at pass blocking.

MileHighGuy wrote:

All you need to know is that if gronk Continued to play for 9 more years with the same production as his first 9, he still wouldn't have the same number of catches or yards as Gonzalez. That's is not just incredible longevity, but incredible production and consistancy over a career twice as long.

Gronk spent a lot of time pass blocking which Gonzalez didn't. Witten too.
I don't understand how you seem to just dismiss Witten.
Have we numbers for yac?

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

eagle eye wrote: »

Amazing how you take two seasons off him for 29 games, which is not a full two seasons and don't bother to add the 16 postseason games.

Don't go getting your knickers in a twist e-e, regular season stats were brought up earlier so we're talking regular season games. There's obviously no comparison between gronk and gonzalez in the post season.
What I meant by my above post is just how utterly ridiculous Gronk's stats are for this 9 seasons, as they're more like for 7 seasons.

j8wk2feszrnpao

MileHighGuy wrote: »

All you need to know is that if gronk Continued to play for 9 more years with the same production as his first 9, he still wouldn't have the same number of catches or yards as Gonzalez. That's is not just incredible longevity, but incredible production and consistancy over a career twice as long.

That's why he's in the HOF . Gonzalez was great. But from memory, he was a bit like Jimmy Graham, a TE that lined up outside the vast majority of the time with little blocking in comparison to Gronk.

Gronk played 43% of games that Gonzalez did (115 to 270). Yet Gronk, in 47% less gametime, has 71% of the TDs that Gonzalez has (79 to 111).
Bumping Gronks gametime by a factor of 2.35 (to match Gonzalez) you get:

• Catches 1,224 (Gonzalez 1,325)
• Yards 18,473 (Gonzalez 15,127)
• TDs 185 (Gonzalez 111)

Of course the above is kinda redundant, as he didn't play those games; but just a way to show how great Gronk was while performing all the blocking requirements of a TE as well. And that's before you look at their post season stats, where Gronk blows away Gonzalez; 16 games (Gonzalez 7), catches 81 (to 30), yards 1,1163 (to 286), TDs 12 (to 4). But with Brady throwing to Gronk, he'd that advantage

j8wk2feszrnpao

Oat23 wrote: »

Both the league and Bears are celebrating their 100th season so yes. That is the reason.

Far better opening game than Pats v anyone.

A Pats v Chiefs game would be better.
Packers have won 17 of the last 21 games against the Bears. Bears maybe have the edge now (they won the last game), but it's been a predicable result for quite a while (pretty much as dominate as Pats v AFC teams in that period).

BizzyC

When it comes to talent, I'd put Gronk at the top of the pile with Gonzalez above Witten.
I know Witten does more blocking, but Gonzalez was such a force as a receiver.

When it comes down to best of all time arguments, I think Gronk's longevity lets him down.

Gonzalez played 17 seasons, with 14 pro-bowls.
Even taking the receiving stats out of the equation, that's an incredible career and one stat that Gronk would not have matched with another 8 years of playing.

Shedite27

munstermagic11 wrote: »

A Pats v Chiefs game would be better.
Packers have won 17 of the last 21 games against the Bears. Bears maybe have the edge now (they won the last game), but it's been a predicable result for quite a while (pretty much as dominate as Pats v AFC teams in that period).

Pats/Chiefs would be massive ratings any week of the season, no point in wasting it on opening night

j8wk2feszrnpao

Shedite27 wrote: »

Pats/Chiefs would be massive ratings any week of the season, no point in wasting it on opening night

Agreed, but was just speaking about it being a better game.

Knex*

I think Gronk skewed the field so heavily in his offense's favour, like no other tight end. Perhaps some recency bias, but I'd put his ahead of Witten, Gonzalez or anyone else.

At his peak he was like Gonzalez and Mark Bavaro rolled in one.

Blut2

Gronk was a fantastic player to watch. One of the most impressive things I read about him is he's never touched a single cent of his playing income over the years. Hes just banked it all, while living off of endorsements money.

For all his reputation as a dumb party jock he's obviously got some smarts.

Shedite27

Blut2 wrote: »

Gronk was a fantastic player to watch. One of the most impressive things I read about him is he's never touched a single cent of his playing income over the years. Hes just banked it all, while living off of endorsements money.

For all his reputation as a dumb party jock he's obviously got some smarts.

Marshawn Lynch and Saquon Barkely done the same. Helps that you're making millions in endorsements, but fair dues

Oat23

munstermagic11 wrote: »

A Pats v Chiefs game would be better.
Packers have won 17 of the last 21 games against the Bears. Bears maybe have the edge now (they won the last game), but it's been a predicable result for quite a while (pretty much as dominate as Pats v AFC teams in that period).

I was talking ratings wise. Bears/Packers was the highest rated prime time game last season. It's also the most storied rivalry in the league between two of the oldest franchises, so it makes sense to have it open the 100th season.

mikemac2

Ohmeha wrote: »

Yeah for at least the past decade it has been the Superbowl champs hosting the opening Thursday night game on NBC

The Ravens had to go on the road to Denver

They share the car park with the Orioles and the baseball schedule had already been set. The Orioles and White Sox agreed to move the game but the MLB said no

Just an exception that year

MileHighGuy

eagle eye wrote: »

He was awful at pass blocking.

Hard to find stats, as I mentioned, but PFF have him conceding just 5 QB pressures over the last 3 years of his career - not sacks, pressures, in 3 years, good for 6th best amongst TE in the league in that span. Hardly awful by any stretch of the imagination.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/three-years-of-pass-blocking-efficiency-tight-ends

eagle eye wrote: »

Gronk spent a lot of time pass blocking which Gonzalez didn't. Witten too.
I don't understand how you seem to just dismiss Witten.
Have we numbers for yac?

Sorry, I can't accept that. He was not asked to stay in to block when his team was passing because a defensive coordinator would be delighted to see Tony Gonzalez blocking on a passing down.


Witten was/is fine and dependable, but I would have Antonio Gates just ahead of him at the moment due to his crazy TD numbers. Maybe another solid season in his comeback would inch him ahead.

MileHighGuy

Oat23 wrote: »

I was talking ratings wise. Bears/Packers was the highest rated prime time game last season. It's also the most storied rivalry in the league between two of the oldest franchises, so it makes sense to have it open the 100th season.

Happy enough with Bears Packers, but it is strange that the Patriots aren't opening the season. I wonder is it anything to do with the current legal issue with the owner....perhaps the timing of any case matches (or is close enough) to warrant going with another team just in case?

Oat23

MileHighGuy wrote: »

Happy enough with Bears Packers, but it is strange that the Patriots aren't opening the season. I wonder is it anything to do with the current legal issue with the owner....perhaps the timing of any case matches (or is close enough) to warrant going with another team just in case?

Doubt it. Bears/Packers has been rumoured since Superbowl week.

j8wk2feszrnpao

MileHighGuy wrote: »

I wonder is it anything to do with the current legal issue with the owner....perhaps the timing of any case matches (or is close enough) to warrant going with another team just in case?

Nothing to do with it. As I said before, this was mentioned weeks ago.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Oat23 wrote: »

I was talking ratings wise. Bears/Packers was the highest rated prime time game last season. It's also the most storied rivalry in the league between two of the oldest franchises, so it makes sense to have it open the 100th season.

I understand the rational behind it, and as a Pats fan in Ireland I’m happy we are the Sun game. But Pack v Bears has been boring for me for a decade with the game largely decided before kickoff. That Prime Time game was down from 2017 when it was Dallas @ NY and down from 2016 when it was Pats @ Cardinals. Someone will always be the most watched game, think it depends on the circumstances rather than the teams.

Mysterypunter

Pass interference will now be a reviewable play, about time. New Orleans win never win again(:

Shedite27

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I understand the rational behind it, and as a Pats fan in Ireland I’m happy we are the Sun game. But Pack v Bears has been boring for me for a decade with the game largely decided before kickoff. That Prime Time game was down from 2017 when it was Dallas @ NY and down from 2016 when it was Pats @ Cardinals. Someone will always be the most watched game, think it depends on the circumstances rather than the teams.

Their game on opening weekend last year was one of the games of the season. Pack came from 20-0 down to win 24-23

MileHighGuy

Mysterypunter wrote:

Pass interference will now be a reviewable play, about time. New Orleans win never win again(:

I'm a bit worried about this development to be honest. I'm not sure there is another non-called penalty that is reviewable. This means that when the officials take over from coaches challenge in the last 2 minutes absolutely every pass play will have the potential to be reviewed.

We might also see...

1. Hail Mary plays will be very valuable and far more deep shots have the potential for a review, bearing in mind that pass interference can look far worse in slow motion that real time full speed....

2..... this includes offensive pass interference as well, one could argue that one or the other happens on most pass plays. Things could get very tricky tacky.

It's a bad idea to bring in a sweeping rule change off the back of a single incident, even if it was a pivotal moment of the NFCCG. They might as well cut to the chase and make every play reviewable. An obvious hold on a game winning TD pass?Why wouldn't that be subject to review?

Finally, the most egregious penalty calls/misses this year were the hands to the face of the QB in my opinion, and these frequently came on key third downs (at least that's the way it felt!) I suppose we will have to wait for a high profile game where this is incorrectly called which materially affects the outcome before the NFL will change the rule (or did this happen in the AFCCG and no one remembers or is bothered by it.?)

eagle eye

I'm not certain about this but I don't remember the rule changing about reviews. It used to be that it could only be reviewed at full speed in video replays by officials.