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The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

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    #1292
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,846 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Yeah I get that but I'm not just trotting out sound bites. I don't do sound bites but I understand it can sound like that sometimes. You'll note I never mentioned anything about being a good/bad teammate.
    Commitment is a much more important thing to me though.
    When a guy decides to sit out a full season you have to question that. The reasons being that he is making it clear that it's all about money for him now. When it's all about the money you have to wonder if the guy will give it has all or will he turn into the type that will be more interested in protecting himself to elongate his career.
    There have been plenty of sitouts which have went all the way through OTA's, TC and the preseason and that's fine but when you start to miss regular season games it becomes a problem, when it becomes a full season it raises these questions.


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    #1293
    brinty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,333 ✭✭✭brinty


    Jolly Red Giant wrote: »
    Rumours coming out of Denver that Gary Kubiak is looking to go back to coaching as an OC.

    He’d be welcome in Dallas
    Anything would be better than Scott linehan


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    #1294
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,885 ✭✭✭Christy42


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Yeah I get that but I'm not just trotting out sound bites. I don't do sound bites but I understand it can sound like that sometimes. You'll note I never mentioned anything about being a good/bad teammate.
    Commitment is a much more important thing to me though.
    When a guy decides to sit out a full season you have to question that. The reasons being that he is making it clear that it's all about money for him now. When it's all about the money you have to wonder if the guy will give it has all or will he turn into the type that will be more interested in protecting himself to elongate his career.
    There have been plenty of sitouts which have went all the way through OTA's, TC and the preseason and that's fine but when you start to miss regular season games it becomes a problem, when it becomes a full season it raises these questions.
    Surely that means there is no point to a sit out. I mean a team won't really care about sitting out pre season if they know they will get them back at a cheap rate for the regular season games. You are taking out literally the only negotiation tool that the player has. I guarantee Mack and Donald would not have gotten their contracts if teams did not think they were willing to sit out regular season games. Manning was threatening the same and Joey Bosa did sit regular season games.

    It is like any job. If you want someone to do the job you pay them what they want or they can decide not to do it. Maybe you can get someone else to do it cheaper like Connor but that does not mean Bell would not have put his heart and soul into it if you hired him.


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    #1295
    Jolly Red Giant
    Registered Users Posts: 3,434 ✭✭✭Jolly Red Giant


    mikemac2 wrote: »
    Welcome back to Baltimore any day ! :)

    Nah - the Broncos hire Harbaugh when he leaves the Ravens and Kubiak works as his OC.


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    #1296
    jack presley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    The Sanchise signed to be McCoy's backup at Washington

    https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1064584319904227333


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    #1297
    jack presley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    And when the Redskins play Dallas on Thursday, it will be 6 years to the day since......

    https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1064586570001469440


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    #1298
    mikemac2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,932 ✭✭✭mikemac2


    Makes sense, better signing than the other FA QBs out there

    I do think every team should have a QB on their practice squad. The coach’s see him every day in their system and true most will get cut and never make the grade but you may find a gem for only 90k a year. Why wouldn’t a GM try sure


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    #1299
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,807 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    mikemac2 wrote: »
    Makes sense, better signing than the other FA QBs out there

    Yeah....sure :pac:

    170903125346-colin-kaepernick-khalid-albaih-cartoon-trnd-super-tease.jpg


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    #1300
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,101 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    On coaching changes, it looks like there will be a fair few HC roles open this offseason. Possibly Browns, Broncos, Bucs, Jets, Ravens, Packers? How would people rank them as attractive propositions for coaches?

    I’d probably go:
    - Packers (Rodgers, extra 2019 picks, decent cap space)
    - Browns (huge cap space, Mayfield looking good, lots of pieces on the roster, little initial pressure)
    - Ravens (good all-round team, Jackson looking promising, solid front office)
    - Broncos (decent cap space, good roster but still have a QB question, have to deal with Elway)
    - Jets (huge cap space, Darnold looking promising but weak roster, extra NY media attention)
    - Bucs (some good roster pieces but also have big gaps, tight on cap space, QB mess)


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    #1301
    jack presley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    mikemac2 wrote: »

    I do think every team should have a QB on their practice squad. The coach’s see him every day in their system and true most will get cut and never make the grade but you may find a gem for only 90k a year. Why wouldn’t a GM try sure

    Practice Squad players are free agents though and can be signed to a roster at any time. The Redskins did have Kevin Hogan as a QB on their practice squad but he was signed by the Broncos. So any semi decent QB on a practice squad will be pinched by another team.


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    #1302
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,101 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    mikemac2 wrote: »
    I do think every team should have a QB on their practice squad. The coach’s see him every day in their system and true most will get cut and never make the grade but you may find a gem for only 90k a year. Why wouldn’t a GM try sure

    Makes sense in some ways but the practice squad QBs get very few reps for teams to improve or teams to make a better assessment on them. It has somewhat worked out for the 49ers but they had Nick Mullens on their practice squad last year and he ended up spending time on the scout team playing safety. You need players that a totally under the radar and won't get picked up


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    #1303
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    jack presley wrote: »
    And when the Redskins play Dallas on Thursday, it will be 6 years to the day since......
    Twenty years from now you could randomly shout "Butt fumble!" in public and so long as there was someone over 40 who watches the sport within earshot, they'd know exactly what you meant.

    If there wasn't... well you'd just look like a weirdo.


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    #1304
    The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,380 ✭✭✭The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman


    eagle eye wrote: »
    When a guy decides to sit out a full season you have to question that. The reasons being that he is making it clear that it's all about money for him now. When it's all about the money you have to wonder if the guy will give it has all or will he turn into the type that will be more interested in protecting himself to elongate his career.
    There have been plenty of sitouts which have went all the way through OTA's, TC and the preseason and that's fine but when you start to miss regular season games it becomes a problem, when it becomes a full season it raises these questions.

    Have to question what exactly? Bell gave the Steelers plenty of notice he wanted a long term contract or he would sit out. Bell is 100% correct. Imagine playing a year on €14m and getting an injury like Alex Smith got yesterday?

    The franchise tag is bull**** from a players perspective and the players association should try to get rid of it. At the end of the day the NFL is a business and Bell is treating it as that. Fair play to him.


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    #1305
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Bucs going back to Winston. They will be on the hook for USD 20.99m next year if gets injured. Bizarre move.


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    #1306
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »
    Have to question what exactly? Bell gave the Steelers plenty of notice he wanted a long term contract or he would sit out. Bell is 100% correct. Imagine playing a year on €14m and getting an injury like Alex Smith got yesterday?

    The franchise tag is bull**** from a players perspective and the players association should try to get rid of it. At the end of the day the NFL is a business and Bell is treating it as that. Fair play to him.

    Earl Thomes held out looking for a new contract but came back and suffered a serious injury. His market value has plummeted.

    I don't blame Bell one bit for doing what he is doing.

    For some reason teams are allowed to cut and trade players willy nilly or franchise them and that's cool but if a player makes a business decision he's questioned. Franchises are set for life financially but players may not even get that one opportunity to make their market value.


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    #1307
    raze_them_all_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    Franchise tag.

    We don't want to pay you, but we don't want anyone else to pay you.


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    #1308
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,112 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    Franchise Tag is the average salary of the top 5 players of his position or 120% of his previous salary. It's a good bit of money usually.

    Players union agreed to it obviously. It's also used where they want time to negotiate with a player for a further extension or if they want to try and trade a player.

    It's not a case of they don't want to pay a player or they don't want anyone else to pay him. Its they want to keep a player and they haven't worked out a long term deal. It's usually more expensive to Tag a player than pay him a long term deal.


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    #1309
    raze_them_all_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    adrian522 wrote: »
    Franchise Tag is the average salary of the top 5 players of his position or 120% of his previous salary. It's a good bit of money usually.

    Players union agreed to it obviously. It's also used where they want time to negotiate with a player for a further extension or if they want to try and trade a player.

    It's not a case of they don't want to pay a player or they don't want anyone else to pay him. Its they want to keep a player and they haven't worked out a long term deal. It's usually more expensive to Tag a player than pay him a long term deal.

    They didnt want to pay kirk cousins twice. Tag him.


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    #1310
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    adrian522 wrote: »
    Franchise Tag is the average salary of the top 5 players of his position or 120% of his previous salary. It's a good bit of money usually.

    Players union agreed to it obviously. It's also used where they want time to negotiate with a player for a further extension or if they want to try and trade a player.

    It's not a case of they don't want to pay a player or they don't want anyone else to pay him. Its they want to keep a player and they haven't worked out a long term deal. It's usually more expensive to Tag a player than pay him a long term deal.

    The NFL were bastards when negotiating the CBA with the NFL PA. Everything the NFL PA asked for, the NFL wanted something huge in return. If the NFL PA asked to get rid of the franchise tag, it wouldn't have surprised me if the NFL would have swapped it for an 18 game season.

    Just because the NFL PA agreed to the Franchise tag, doesn't mean they like it.

    The tag being the average salary of the top 5 players for that position or 120% of his previous salary for 1 season, is a minuscule amount compared to the amount of money they get in FA. Kirk Cousins got $23m guaranteed with the Franchise Tag, he got $84m guaranteed in FA almost 4x as much.


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    #1311
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,112 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    Hazys wrote: »
    The NFL were bastards when negotiating the CBA with the NFL PA. Everything the NFL PA asked for, the NFL wanted something huge in return. If the NFL PA asked to get rid of the franchise tag, it wouldn't have surprised me if the NFL would have swapped it for an 18 game season.

    Just because the NFL PA agreed to the Franchise tag, doesn't mean they like it.

    The tag being the average salary of the top 5 players for that position or 120% of his previous salary for 1 season, is a minuscule amount compared to the amount of money they get in FA. Kirk Cousins got $23m guaranteed with the Franchise Tag, he got $84m guaranteed in FA almost 4x as much.

    That $84m, how much is fully guaranteed? Because unless he got it on day 1 its not guaranteed. How much did he get per year?


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    #1312
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    adrian522 wrote: »
    That $84m, how much is fully guaranteed? Because unless he got it on day 1 its not guaranteed. How much did he get per year?

    $84m fully guaranteed at signing. He turned down $90m fully guaranteed from the Jets. Obviously he doesn't get paid $84m on day 1, its spread out over 3 years no matter if his arm fell off on day 2. Its like an NBA contract.


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    #1313
    MileHighGuy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭MileHighGuy


    The idea of the franchise tag started benignly enough, originally during the advent of free agency, the owners were largely resigned to the fact it was coming in and were able to negotiate a salary cap in return for giving the players free agency. Owners, argued there should be a clause/exemption within free agency that would allow teams to protect their Franchise player, normally a star QB or RB ....apparently Pat Bowlen was to have said, I can't lose John Elway to free agency, and it was loosely referred to as "the Elway Rule" within the negotiations.

    So the idea behind it was probably sound, the owners knew some players *were* essentially the franchise. Now whether the owners knew ahead of time how it could be used as leverage in negotiations down the line is debatable, but even in the early years of free agency a lot of, what I would deem, non-franchise-type players were tagged.

    Once teams started using the franchise tag on kickers, punters and bit-part role players, it displayed how disingenuously the teams were using the designation. Now with all that being said, it only affects a handful of players every year, and any player that plays under the tag is heftily compensated, so I'd imagine it will be unlikely to be negotiated out of any future agreements.


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    #1314
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Im torn on the tag... It basically allows the club to 'cheat' at the game of chicken that contract negotiations are which is an unfair disadvantage but does pay well and fills a purpose as an emergency measure.

    The second tag though is nothing more than a bad joke.


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    #1315
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    adrian522 wrote: »
    That $84m, how much is fully guaranteed? Because unless he got it on day 1 its not guaranteed. How much did he get per year?

    If I'm correct, all of it is guaranteed. It was the most guaranteed money ever when signed, and was a pretty big story that it was all (or almost all) guaranteed.


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    #1316
    raze_them_all_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Im torn on the tag... It basically allows the club to 'cheat' at the game of chicken that contract negotiations are which is an unfair disadvantage but does pay well and fills a purpose as an emergency measure.

    The second tag though is nothing more than a bad joke.

    Franchise tag should be a two way system. We would like to franchise tag you as we would like longer to work out a contract. If the player agrees then grand tag away, if not too bad. It's not as if teams don't know when your tag is up. Imagine if you joined a new job and you got a massive money offer when your contract was up and your boss magically got to keep you without you having a say


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    #1317
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,101 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    As is probably obvious by now, I really dislike franchise tags but I understand why they're there and unlikely to go away at the next CBA, as it impacts so few players that it won't be a focus of discussions.

    Franchise tags should be treated like 5th rookie options. If you tag a player for the year you guarantee the player's contract for that year, as they currently do, however if the player gets injured and can't pass a medical at the start of the next year they get a 2nd year guaranteed at the franchise rate. It reduces some risk off the player and by shifting it to the team they would be less likely to flog a franchised player, like Bell feared would happen.


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    #1318
    jack presley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    LA Rams vs KC Chiefs - 455 total yards, 54 points

    TB Bucs v Redskins - 501 total yards, 3 points


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    #1319
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    jack presley wrote: »
    LA Rams vs KC Chiefs - 455 total yards, 54 points

    TB Bucs v Redskins - 501 total yards, 3 points

    I was actually at that game...it was awful. Sitting in 30C heat, watching the Bucs give up turnover after turnover and missed FG after FG, garbage game...at least the stadium is nice


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    #1320
    Paully D
    Registered Users Posts: 28,710 ✭✭✭✭Paully D


    Have a read of this. Warren has been banging this drum for a while now:

    https://twitter.com/sharpfootball/status/1065261389185470464?s=21


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    #1321
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Hazys wrote: »
    I was actually at that game...it was awful. Sitting in 30C heat, watching the Bucs give up turnover after turnover and missed FG after FG, garbage game...at least the stadium is nice

    Raymond James? That's where I saw my first game, right near the pirate ship back in 2002 (Packers fans know it was 'the Warren Sapp chop block game'). Nice layout but some of the surrounding area is... interesting.

    One of the worst games of Favres career, along with the other GB game I got to being the biggest loss on MNF history (48-3). On the plus side it was 2005 and they benched Favre in the 4th for some rookie from California called Aaron Somethingorother for his first passing attempts of his career.

    I'm slightly cursed though. No joke, a friend has been on the dublin GAA team for about a decade and before the 2011 season informally banned me from crocker because they lost every game I went through. Fast forward 7 years and... Well I like to think I did my part for those Sam trophies. :pac:


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