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Households To Produce Receipts For Waste Or Face Fines

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    #182
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,562 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    It's not the customer of the licensed operator dumping it illegaly. So why does it matter whether or not they've receipts?

    There is an enforcement mechanism in place to monitor how collection companies manage the waste they collect.

    The new regulations will just be looking for people to have evidence that they manage their waste legally. My Dad gave up having bins because they were expensive. He has receipts from his trips to the recycling centre. That would suffice. Any legal waste collection mechanism will provide someone with evidence that they are managing their waste and not stuffing it into street bins, throwing it over hedges, burning it etc.


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    #183
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    There is an enforcement mechanism in place to monitor how collection companies manage the waste they collect.

    The new regulations will just be looking for people to have evidence that they manage their waste legally. My Dad gave up having bins because they were expensive. He has receipts from his trips to the recycling centre. That would suffice. Any legal waste collection mechanism will provide someone with evidence that they are managing their waste and not stuffing it into street bins, throwing it over hedges, burning it etc.

    But, evidence is only needed to prove guilt.


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    #184
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,562 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    But, evidence is only needed to prove guilt.

    I'm not sure what you're getting at?

    It's proof that you avail of a legal service.


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    #185
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    It's not the customer of the licensed operator dumping it illegaly.
    Nobody said it was. Do you understand the proposed regulations and their purpose?

    If you have receipts for a licensed operator, you won't have an issue.

    In fact, if you are a registered customer of a licenced operator I expect you'll never be asked to produce anything.


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    #186
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    I'm not sure what you're getting at?

    It's proof that you avail of a legal service.

    I don't need to keep the receipt for the parking I paid for 2 weeks ago.
    seamus wrote: »
    Nobody said it was. Do you understand the proposed regulations and their purpose?

    If you have receipts for a licensed operator, you won't have an issue.

    In fact, if you are a registered customer of a licenced operator I expect you'll never be asked to produce anything.

    Why can't they just be disposed of then? All your saying is, it's to prove I used a service. If someone was to fine me for improper disposal of waste, it's up to them to prove I did so.


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    #187
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    badtoro wrote: »
    Wash cloth nappies, well I have no words. We have a six month old and there's no way on earth I'd even contemplate them.

    Have you even looked at the new ones? We are not talking re the old bulky squares?
    Or soaking in buckets...

    Please read

    http://www.realnappies-wales.org.uk/

    especially read

    http://www.realnappies-wales.org.uk/real-nappies/what-we-do

    Wales had the same problems as we have here now. They have done wonderfully to move to a more viable system. That respects the earth


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    #188
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Why can't they just be disposed of then? All your saying is, it's to prove I used a service. If someone was to fine me for improper disposal of waste, it's up to them to prove I did so.
    That's not a very effective way of combatting fly-tipping. You can't plaster the country in CCTV.

    Take the TV licence: while the value of chasing non-payers is very debatable, there is no argument that the current method of enforcement is very effective.

    Ensuring that household waste is properly disposed of, is very valuable to society, so I see no problem in using a known effective enforcement model.

    The "guilty until proven innocent" issue while rankling with people, still doesn't apply here because you're not guilty until proven so in a court of law. One can argue that's a pedantic technicality, but it's a fact.

    I'll give you another example; if you're on a bus and don't have a ticket, the bye-laws allow for you to be fined. It's not up to the conductor to prove that you didn't pay, it's up to you to prove that you did.


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    #189
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,562 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    I don't need to keep the receipt for the parking I paid for 2 weeks ago.

    Apples and oranges. Besides, your parking isn't posing a problem now and if you dumped your car or disposed of it illegally, they would come after you for it. To prove your innocence, you would have a certificate of destruction to demonstrate the problem wasn't caused by you.

    In 2016, 77% of private households had a waste collection service so the vast majority of people won't be reliant on keeping receipts. Having proof is the same as the proof you have that you paid your tv licence. For those that don't have a kerbside collection service, it'll be no different to keeping the €4 stamps you accumulate to cover the licence.


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    #190
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,562 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    If someone was to fine me for improper disposal of waste, it's up to them to prove I did so.

    An illegal dumping site is found; evidence of names and addresses to indicate where the waste came from is found.

    So say a letter with your name and address is found....the enforcement officer arrives at your door and informs you that illegally dumped waste contained waste from your home. How do you demonstrate that you weren't responsible? By producing evidence that you dispose of your waste through a permitted/licensed site or have a collection service.


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    #191
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    seamus wrote: »
    That's not a very effective way of combatting fly-tipping. You can't plaster the country in CCTV.

    Take the TV licence: while the value of chasing non-payers is very debatable, there is no argument that the current method of enforcement is very effective.

    Ensuring that household waste is properly disposed of, is very valuable to society, so I see no problem in using a known effective enforcement model.

    The "guilty until proven innocent" issue while rankling with people, still doesn't apply here because you're not guilty until proven so in a court of law. One can argue that's a pedantic technicality, but it's a fact.

    I'll give you another example; if you're on a bus and don't have a ticket, the bye-laws allow for you to be fined. It's not up to the conductor to prove that you didn't pay, it's up to you to prove that you did.

    You don't need to keep the ticket when you've finished the journey on the bus.

    I don't get pulled over 2 weeks later with someone challenging me for it.


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    #192
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,562 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    You don't need to keep the ticket when you've finished the journey on the bus.

    I don't get pulled over 2 weeks later with someone challenging me for it.

    Because two weeks later, the local authority/state doesn't have a big clean up to fund because of your legal/illegal journey.

    I would hope.


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    #193
    jacob2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 275 ✭✭jacob2


    wat next paying to breathing


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    #194
    badtoro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 482 ✭✭badtoro


    jacob2 wrote: »
    wat next paying to breathing

    Would sir care for the standard breaths per minute subscription or would you care to upgrade to the deluxe non blue tinged lips package?


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    #195
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    Because two weeks later, the local authority/state doesn't have a big clean up to fund because of your legal/illegal journey.

    I would hope.

    Why are you assuming ones action is illegal after no longer having the ticket or receipt?


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    #196
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    You don't need to keep the ticket when you've finished the journey on the bus.
    Right. But you're constantly generating waste. It's not a case that you do it for a week, dispose of it and you're "finished". You're constantly generating waste, like a figurative, never-ending bus journey.


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    #197
    baldbear
    Registered Users Posts: 5,539 ✭✭✭baldbear


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »

    I accept that illegal dumping is an issue but I think that's more because of the already extortionate charges by private bin companies

    Rubbish. Some people are just dirty scumbags who litter and refuse to pay for anything & meanwhile honest people who do pay have there taxes used to clean up these selfish idiots mess. Any government who does something about this gets my support.


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    #198
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    seamus wrote: »
    Right. But you're constantly generating waste. It's not a case that you do it for a week, dispose of it and you're "finished". You're constantly generating waste, like a figurative, never-ending bus journey.

    So?

    I lawfully dispose of waste. That's it I'm done with it. It should not be on me to keep track of who I've done it with , where I've done it and maintain proof of it.


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    #199
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,316 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    So?

    I lawfully dispose of waste. That's it I'm done with it. It should not be on me to keep track of who I've done it with , where I've done it and maintain proof of it.

    I sort of get where your coming from.
    The example I would use would be the government should make drivers of all diesel cars keep their receipts to prove they aren't using green diesel!


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    #200
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,316 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    baldbear wrote: »
    Rubbish. Some people are just dirty scumbags who litter and refuse to pay for anything & meanwhile honest people who do pay have there taxes used to clean up these selfish idiots mess. Any government who does something about this gets my support.

    I can't actually see a massive drop in illegal dumping because of this. People will essentially get a receipt from the local amenity center and say they are very environmentally friendly and don't produce much rubbish.


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    #201
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,562 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Why are you assuming ones action is illegal after no longer having the ticket or receipt?

    I'm not.

    It's not that unusual that you be asked to retain evidence. I like most of the other 77% of householders with a private collection service have an email from the waste collector that I have a valid account.

    Most people won't be scrambling around with tiny pieces of paper.

    And for those who don't have a collection service but bring their waste to a recycling centre, it's not that big a deal to keep a print out. No one I know that does it finds it a big deal anyway.

    You're almost painting it as something you'd need an accountant for.


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    #202
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    I can't actually see a massive drop in illegal dumping because of this. People will essentially get a receipt from the local amenity center and say they are very environmentally friendly and don't produce much rubbish.
    Sure. But if someone produces (say) two a month, and decides to dump one and pay for the other, then you've reduced their fly-tipping by 50%. Success!
    Dravokivich wrote: »
    I lawfully dispose of waste. That's it I'm done with it. It should not be on me to keep track of who I've done it with , where I've done it and maintain proof of it.
    If that's your issue, then you'll be amazed at what kind of records Revenue can demand of you if they feel like it :)
    Seriously - it's like saying, "I pay my tax, that's it, I'm done with it. It should not be on me to keep track of what I earned, when I earned it and maintain proof of it".


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    #203
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,316 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    seamus wrote: »
    Sure. But if someone produces (say) two a month, and decides to dump one and pay for the other, then you've reduced their fly-tipping by 50%. Success!

    .

    I know people who visit civic amenity sites and would only go about twice a year and get receipts because they would barely generate a wheel bin of rubbish every six months.
    Fly tippers will say they are like this and continue to dump on a weekly basis and just get the odd receipt!


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    #204
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,434 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    Fly tippers will say they are like this and continue to dump on a weekly basis and just get the odd receipt!
    Nobody's saying it will fix the problem completely, any reduction at all would be a positive.


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    #205
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,316 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Nobody's saying it will fix the problem completely, any reduction at all would be a positive.

    The thing is I can't guarantee we'll see a massive reduction in it.
    If people cop on that they could get away with a trip to the civic amenity center one or twice a year and just say they reuse things/don't buy a lot of packaging. They might cut out the bin service and fly tip instead.


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    #206
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,434 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    If people cop on that they could get away with a trip to the civic amenity center one or twice a year and just say they reuse things/don't buy a lot of packaging. They might cut out the bin service and fly tip instead.
    If they don't do that now why would they start then? Nothing stopping them from 100% fly-tipping currently. I think it's a huge stretch to suggest it will increase illegal dumping.


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    #207
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,562 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    The bigger problem with fly tipping isnt really individuals that dump their waste illegally...its illegal collectors. Its closing in on the illegal collectors, who are a bigger problem as regards illegal dumping, as much as sending a signal to individual householders.


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    #208
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Can you imagine this happening here? https://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/pics-japan-team-leave-dressing-room-spotless-and-crying-fans-clean-stadium-following-defeat-852746.html


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    #209
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,316 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Can you imagine this happening here? https://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/pics-japan-team-leave-dressing-room-spotless-and-crying-fans-clean-stadium-following-defeat-852746.html

    It would be rather annoying if this became the norm in stadiums/cinemas because the cleaners would get less hours!
    I know a guy and he used work in a cinema and they used always hope the screens would used have loads of rubbish left it in them.
    They used hate getting groups of kids from schools/clubs and the teacher used bring a bin bag.


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    #210
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    The bigger problem with fly tipping isnt really individuals that dump their waste illegally...its illegal collectors. Its closing in on the illegal collectors, who are a bigger problem as regards illegal dumping, as much as sending a signal to individual householders.

    They're as bad, but its easier to catch the collectors.
    It's the guy pulling up and tossing two bin bags in the ditch that are impossible to catch


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    #211
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,562 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    They're as bad, but its easier to catch the collectors.
    It's the guy pulling up and tossing two bin bags in the ditch that are impossible to catch

    It may always be impossible to catch that toe rag. But closing the gaps in enforcement will reduce the cost of cleaning up illegal dumps.

    Preventing an illegal collector might be the equivalent of catching 20 Joe Scumbags throwing his sh*t into a field.


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