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Disgusting homophobic attack in Portlaoise

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    #92
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,928 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What if I was attacked randomly in a dodgy area and during the beating they called me a fat ****? That wouldn't be a fat shaming attack. It would be a random act of violence where they insulted me during the attack.

    You would assume, from posters saying that random attacks are commonplace in that area, that this was a random beating in which some homophobic insults were thrown., not a homophobic attack.

    But look, you have already said you cant/won't differentiate so we are going around in circles. I'm not downplaying anything I just have a difference of opinion.

    But this is exactly the point. I feel differentiating is almost excusing the homophobia and saying its irrelevant. Even some posters here have said that.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #93
    skallywag
    Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭skallywag


    seachto7 wrote: »
    I was called a “******” loads of times in my youth when getting picked on or hassled by scumbags. I’m straight. That’s what scumbags do. What would you expect from a pig but a grunt.

    Agree strongly.

    It was a horrible assault, but from what I have read so far it does not seem to me that these poor chaps were attacked for the sole reason that they were gay.


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    #94
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,928 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Can’t see how I am but if that’s how you feel then it can’t be helped. That’s how your coming across to me.

    You have a view that homophobia is irrelevant and doesnt matter. You are trying to suggest I view this as an issue only because the victims are gay. I am saying I view it as an issue because of the homophobia. So you are twisting my words completely.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #95
    Hesh's Umpire
    Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭Hesh's Umpire


    Haven't read the whole thread but while the attack may well have been homophobically motivated, there is no way I would walk around that part of Portlaoise at that time of night. Or day either.


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    #96
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,928 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    skallywag wrote: »
    Agree strongly.

    It was a horrible assault, but from what I have read so far it does not seem to me that these poor chaps were attacked for the sole reason that they were gay.

    I dont think anyone said they were.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #97
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Joeytheparrot wrote:
    But this is exactly the point. I feel differentiating is almost excusing the homophobia and saying its irrelevant. Even some posters here have said that.

    But that's just it. ANYONE could have been walking past those scumbags and got battered with sticks. If I was in that terrible position, I can tell you now, the names I was called would certainly be irrelevant. My main concern that was I was being attacked for no reason, with no provocation and with no motive from the bastards, not that while they were bashing my head in with a stick, they added (literally) insult to injury.

    Nobody is excusing homophobic slurs (well I certainly am not), but it seems in this case that they are not as pertinent as the horrific beating


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    #98
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,402 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    We dont know what happened. If homophobic language was used then its a homophobic attack. Not really sure why there is a huge effort to deny homophobia here. Whats that about?

    Jaysus, talk about trying to run with it.

    How do you get the denial part, this should be interesting.


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    #99
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,737 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    Hesh's Umpire wrote: »
    Haven't read the whole thread but while the attack may well have been homophobically motivated, there is no way I would walk around that part of Portlaoise at that time of night. Or day either.

    What part of Portlaoise?


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    #100
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,928 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Deleted User wrote: »
    But that's just it. ANYONE could have been walking past those scumbags and got battered with sticks. If I was in that terrible position, I can tell you now, the names I was called would certainly be irrelevant. My main concern that was I was being attacked for no reason, with no provocation and with no motive from the bastards, not that while they were bashing my head in with a stick, they added (literally) insult to injury.

    Nobody is excusing homophobic slurs (well I certainly am not), but it seems in this case that they are not as pertinent as the horrific beating

    The abusive language was part of the beating. Its not about the homophobia being irrelevant or impertinent. It was part of the attack. Therefore it can't be irrelevant or impertinent.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #101
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Joeytheparrot wrote:
    The abusive language was part of the beating. Its not about the homophobia being irrelevant or impertinent. It was part of the attack. Therefore it can't be irrelevant or impertinent.

    I wholeheartedly disagree.


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    #102
    Mam of 4
    Registered Users Posts: 21,842 ✭✭✭✭Mam of 4


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    What part of Portlaoise?

    The bottom of Harpurs Lane , near entrance to Knockmay Estate .


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    #103
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,928 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I wholeheartedly disagree.

    Why?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #104
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Joeytheparrot wrote:
    Why?

    Because from the evidence provided, it seems to me that this was a random beating with insults thrown in for good measure, not an instance of "gay bashing".

    The targets just happened to be gay, they weren't targeted because they were gay.


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    #105
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    What part of Portlaoise?


    Harpurs Lane.

    Portlaoise gardai have confirmed they are investigating an incident involving a number of people that happened at Harpur's Lane on June 10 at 2:40am. 

    Gardai have taken four statements from witnesses and injured parties. Two people who were part of a group walking home on the night were injured with Collie suffering serious facial injuries. 

    No arrests have been made and no statements have been taken from those suspected of carrying out the attack. Gardai are following a definite line of enquiry. 

    The incident is not being investigated as a homophobic attack at this time but gardai are keeping an open mind on the matter.


    Source: Leinster Express


    I gotta be honest, when I first heard about the attack, and having grown up in the town myself, lads used meet up outside Supermacs and beat 7 colours out of each other with hurls. One particularly memorable occasion was a member of the minor football team who was launched in front of an oncoming Garda car!

    Portlaoise used have it's rough spots, but there was no such thing as a "no go" area until all these new estates popped up during the boom and where there wasn't a drug problem before, there sure as hell is one now.

    The national media appears to have made out this story as though it was just these two guys on their own who were attacked, but they were actually part of a group, and I'm just surprised that the group were hardly mentioned.


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    #106
    Mam of 4
    Registered Users Posts: 21,842 ✭✭✭✭Mam of 4


    I didn't know there was a group of people until your post OEJ , I thought it was just the two men on their own .


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    #107
    10pennymixup
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭10pennymixup


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Because from the evidence provided, it seems to me that this was a random beating with insults thrown in for good measure, not an instance of "gay bashing".

    The targets just happened to be gay, they weren't targeted because they were gay.

    Yep, just as likely to have been set upon for being foreign, or for being male, or for being human. These skangers need no reason.

    They guys did not deserve it for any reason, no one would.

    But what the hell were they doing down Harpur's lane at night. They were familiar enough with the area as they had left a BBQ in a house (said by someone earlier). One look at the area during the day and anyone with a pinch of sense would turn around and get the fcuk out asap.


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    #108
    Blacktie.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭Blacktie.


    Joeytheparrot wrote:
    Why?


    Round and round we go.


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    #109
    harr
    Registered Users Posts: 4,478 ✭✭✭harr


    So now looking further into it ...it seems it was a group of men attacked by a group of scum bags. Words were exchanged and a vicious assault took place.
    The guards are not treating this as a homophobic attack..
    So now it does seem these two individuals were not the sole Target of the attack and they were not beaten because they were gay.
    The fact it was two groups was left out of a lot of news reports and in fact the individuals themselves failed to mention that in interviews.
    The go fund me page is now very nearly at €20,000 ...


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    #110
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,928 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Blacktie. wrote: »
    Round and round we go.

    Indeed.

    I wont ever apologise for highlighting the sinister attempts to minimise homophobia and claim it is irrelevant.

    I feel like Panti
    .For the last three weeks, I have been lectured to by heterosexual people about what homophobia is, and about who is allowed to identify it. Straight people have lined up - ministers, senators, barristers, journalists - have lined up to tell me what homophobia is, and to tell me what I am allowed to feel oppressed by.People who have never experienced homophobia in their lives, people who have never checked themselves at a pedestrian crossing, have told me that unless I am being thrown into prison, or herded onto a cattle truck, then it is not homophobia. And that feels oppressive.And so now, Irish gay people, we find ourselves in this ludicrous situation where we are not only not allowed to say publicly what we feel oppressed by, we're not even allowed to think it, because the very definition - our definition - has been disallowed by our betters.And for the last three weeks, I've been denounced - from the floor of the Oireachtas [the Irish parliament], to newspaper columns, to the seething morass of internet commentary - denounced for using hate speech because I dared to use the word 'homophobia', and a jumped-up queer like me should know that the word homophobia is no longer available to gay people.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #111
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Joeytheparrot wrote:
    I feel like Panti

    Oh dear. Such a ridiculous statement.


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    #112
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Here lies some of the problem. You seem to feel that anyone who is not gay has no right to determine or define what is homophobic. It must be left to gay people

    That is absolutely wrong.

    Although yes, I don't know what it is like to be gay or face the struggles that a gay person faces on a day to day basis, in the same way that you have no idea what it is like to be straight. So therefore, by your rationale, you shouldn't get a say in decisions or get to define anything that doesn't involve gay people. Why don't the gays stick to their side, the straight people stick to their side?

    No, we don't because that's inherently wrong. Homophobia is a defined word with a definite meaning. Just because you think something is homophobic, doesn't mean it is.

    Nobody is trying to justify homophobia on this thread, but for you to say that people are belittling homophobia because we think that being smashed about with a hurl while being called a silly billy is just as bad as being smashed with a hurl when being called gay, means that i think you might need to reassess what the worse aspect of the attack was.


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    #113
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I dont think anyone said they were.

    Yes, you, every second post for this entire thread have posted nothing except "they said fag, so this is about nothing else but 100% homophobia and no other factors come into play and if you disagree you are a homophobe" to paraphrase.

    You have a one dimensional agenda about this that would be too simplistic for a six year old and it's so black and white as can be dismissed entirely as irrelevant drivel, because you cannot comprehend more than a single fact about any one situation and then dismiss everything else.


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    #114
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,306 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    If 2 black lads were attacked one night, in an area which is predominately white, where the perpetrators were out to attack someone in any case, would it not be more likely than not that their victim selection criteria was based on racism...therefore it was a racist motivated attack? Or no because they would have attacked white ppl if the blacks weren't around?


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    #115
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 32,214 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    B0jangles wrote: »
    If someone is mugged just after leaving a gay bar, and the mugger not only takes their wallet, but kicks them in the stomach and calls them a 'f*cking f*ggot*, the attack is a mugging with a side order of homophobia. The primary motivation for the attack was to steal a wallet, but a secondary aim was to hurt a gay person.

    Things don't have to be 100% driven by homophobia to qualify as homophobic.
    So well put.

    As someone who has been a victim of a homophobic attack this thread is a pretty tough read, BTW the Gardaí who attended my incident insisted that it wasnt a homophobic attack i was just in the wrong place at the wrong time (literally round the corner from my apartment.. Which is beside a Gardai station) ... They didn't ask for a wallet etc... He later had to apologise and admit he was incorrect.
    Repeatedly being called a f#ggot and then having your face slashed with a Stanley knife was... He finally agreed a homophobic attack... Cheers i had guessed...


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    #116
    BrianBoru00
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭BrianBoru00


    I've been intrigued by this discussion and reading the reports my gut feeling is - no its not a hate crime, its a crime which is motivated by being a scumbag basically.

    At the end of the day whether or not a crime is a homophobic IS DECIDED BY THE GARDAI and or Director of Public Prosecutions. . . .

    and with that off I went to look for my "evidence" on www.garda.ie - very conveniently I found their definition "It is any incident which is perceived to be racially motivated by the victim, a member of the Gardaí (police), a witness to the incident, or a person acting on behalf of the victim."

    https://www.garda.ie/en/Crime/Hate-crime/What-is-hate-crime-.html

    Now I'm also of the opinion that that is not a very sound basis to define it but that is the status in this country therefore it actually seems clear-cut that IT IS a homophobic attack. i.e. NOTHING to do per se with what was said but what, in this case, the victims perceived.


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    #117
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    lots of homophobic scum on the streets, and also on Boards... the direction of this thread does not surprise me.


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    #118
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    There is a disgusting amount of thinly veiled homophobia here on boards. It’s the general narrative that goes: gays - you’ve got more than enough now. Stop your moaning and know your place.:mad:


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    #119
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    JupiterKid wrote:
    There is a disgusting amount of thinly veiled homophobia here on boards. It’s the general narrative that goes: gays - you’ve got more than enough now. Stop your moaning and know your place.

    JackTaylorFan wrote:
    lots of homophobic scum on the streets, and also on Boards... the direction of this thread does not surprise me.


    Are there examples on this thread?


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    #120
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 32,214 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Are there examples on this thread?
    There were plenty on the gay pride at work thread but a lot seem to have been deleted or banned. They included slurring gay men as all being paedophiles, gay people dying 20 years younger than straight people due to their unnatural lifestyle choices(linking to 1990s 'study' which looked at aids obituaries) , stating that pride here had NAMBLA (don't ask) marching as a group, gay people shouldn't be allowed to adopt as they are statistically far more likely to abuse children (they aren't), gay people having bizarre illnesses due to their 'lifestyle' (it was some bizarre cancer which has been debunked as a myth) . They are just the ones of the top of my head....there were more believe me.


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    #121
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    gmisk wrote:
    There were plenty on the gay pride at work thread but a lot seem to have been deleted or banned. They included slurring gay men as all being paedophiles, gay people dying 20 years younger than straight people due to their unnatural lifestyle choices(linking to 1990s 'study' which looked at aids obituaries) , stating that pride here had NAMBLA (don't ask) marching as a group, gay people shouldn't be allowed to adopt as they are statistically far more likely to abuse children (they aren't), gay people having bizarre illnesses due to their 'lifestyle' (it was some bizarre cancer which has been debunked as a myth) . They are just the ones of the top of my head....there were more believe me.

    Absolutely disgusting. I wasn't aware of those. I thought people were referring to this thread which, apart from a few frayed temper posts, was relatively cordial.

    No excuse for the **** that you spoke about.


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