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Disgusting homophobic attack in Portlaoise

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    #32
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Perhaps you could try explain and justify why you are trying to deny and downplay homophobia. Because that is what you are trying to do here.

    He's really not, what's equally as bad as downplaying something is overexaggerating something.
    If you've ever witnessed or been in a fight you would know that with all the punches and kicks comes a torrent of abuse.
    Imagine for a second if this was a straight men but these thugs called him homophobic slurs during it. Is it a hate crime?


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    #33
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Blacktie. wrote: »
    The attackers where not specifically targeting gay people. It makes a difference.

    No. It doesnt make a difference. Why are you so eager to deny homophobia?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #34
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    seannash wrote: »
    He's really not, what's equally as bad as downplaying something is overexaggerating something.
    If you've ever witnessed or been in a fight you would know that with all the punches and kicks comes a torrent of abuse.
    Imagine for a second if this was a straight men but these thugs called him homophobic slurs during it. Is it a hate crime?

    Yes. Because they used homophobia against him.

    Cases like that are often prosecuted as hate crime in other jurisdictions.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #35
    harr
    Registered Users Posts: 4,478 ✭✭✭harr


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Perhaps you could try explain and justify why you are trying to deny and downplay homophobia. Because that is what you are trying to do here.
    And can you explain why you are pushing this attack as homophobia when there is a chance it wasn’t...why are you so adamant it was.
    It has already being explained clearly why it might not have been a targeted attack. I have a child with special needs and I can nearly guarantee this group of scum would very easily throw insults at my kid if I encountered them.
    These people are looking for easy targets...


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    #36
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    harr wrote: »
    And can you explain why you are pushing this attack as homophobia when there is a chance it wasn’t...why are you so adamant it was.
    It has already being explained clearly why it might not have been a targeted attack. I have a child with special needs and I can nearly guarantee this group of scum would very easily throw insults at my kid if I encountered them.
    These people are looking for easy targets...

    I'm actually not.

    What I have repeatedly said is
    A I dont know what happened
    B If homophobic language was used then its a homophobic attack

    I am not adamant that it was definitely homophobic. I am adamant that if homophobic language was used then it is homophobic.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #37
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    If there was homophobic language used then it is a homophobic attack. Why are you trying to deny that?

    No one is denying that there was homophobic language. But it could have been “you ginger bastards” “you fat bastards” “you black bastards”.
    I think the point being made is that the fact that the couple are gay doesn’t make the attack any better or worse than if they weren’t gay.
    It isn’t more awful because they are gay.
    It really isn’t.
    It’s terrible that there are these no go areas where it’s not safe to walk.
    If you think that it’s more shocking because the victims are gay then I wouldn’t agree with that.


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    #38
    Mam of 4
    Registered Users Posts: 21,827 ✭✭✭✭Mam of 4


    I'm from the area . Half these young little fcukers who carried out this attack aren't even from the area .
    It could have been anyone that night who they battered , as they were more than likely off their heads on pills, weed or coke . They fight amongst themselves first , then go on a ramble about to see if there is anyone vulnerable around .

    It isn't a no go area , but I'm not denying that of late it has become a fight zone .


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    #39
    harr
    Registered Users Posts: 4,478 ✭✭✭harr


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I'm actually not.

    What I have repeatedly said is
    A I dont know what happened
    B If homophobic language was used then its a homophobic attack

    I am not adamant that it was definitely homophobic. I am adamant that if homophobic language was used then it is homophobic.
    Surely for an attack to classify as a homophobic attack the couple in question needed to be targeted because they were gay ? In this case it looks they would have been attacked regardless of there sexuality....


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    #40
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Mam of 4 wrote: »
    I'm from the area . Half these young little fcukers who carried out this attack aren't even from the area .
    It could have been anyone that night who they battered , as they were more than likely off their heads on pills, weed or coke . They fight amongst themselves first , then go on a ramble about to see if there is any vulnerable around .

    It isn't a no go area , but I'm not denying that of late it has become a fight zone .

    I know that there’s a huge “branch” of a shockingly bad “clan” who have the “mothership” in Limerick, with a further extended family in N. Tipp, over in the Portlaoise area. There’s a lot of tooing and froing between the 3 areas.


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    #41
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    harr wrote: »
    Surely for an attack to classify as a homophobic attack the couple in question needed to be targeted because they were gay ? In this case it looks they would have been attacked regardless of there sexuality....

    No. Why does it have to be? Why is it not a homophobic attack if there was homophobic language used?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #42
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    splinter65 wrote: »
    No one is denying that there was homophobic language. But it could have been “you ginger bastards” “you fat bastards” “you black bastards”.
    I think the point being made is that the fact that the couple are gay doesn’t make the attack any better or worse than if they weren’t gay.
    It isn’t more awful because they are gay.
    It really isn’t.
    It’s terrible that there are these no go areas where it’s not safe to walk.
    If you think that it’s more shocking because the victims are gay then I wouldn’t agree with that.

    It is more awful if they are gay and they are targeted because they are gay.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #43
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,287 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Mam of 4 wrote: »
    I'm from the area . Half these young little fcukers who carried out this attack aren't even from the area .
    It could have been anyone that night who they battered , as they were more than likely off their heads on pills, weed or coke . They fight amongst themselves first , then go on a ramble about to see if there is any vulnerable around .

    It isn't a no go area , but I'm not denying that of late it has become a fight zone .

    That's shocking really when you think about it.

    The one thing I wouldn't say though is that 'it was the weed' that was in some way the root cause of what they did. Not that I think you are saying that MO4.

    It blows my crank when sentences are handed down for such brutal crimes that their socio-economic background is taken into account. That policy is soo sooo wrong and it is why those same apes feel they can do whatever they like.


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    #44
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Yes. Because they used homophobia against him.

    Cases like that are often prosecuted as hate crime in other jurisdictions.
    Interesting. Can you link me to a case.
    If that's the case I would whole heartedly disagree with the conviction in such a case.


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    #45
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    If there was homophobic language used then it is a homophobic attack. Why are you trying to deny that?

    Yes, it was a homophobic attack. You have successfully identified a hallmark and have put the appropriate label on this attack and filed it into a box.
    Next time the same attackers might come across black people and attack them.
    Then you would have to say "woa, hold on a minute, they're not homophobes, they're racists!"
    So, taken them out of their box, because this is something totally new and unconnected to the homophobic attack.
    Before you would try to understand why they are homophobes, but now you would stop everything and try therapy and talking as to why they're suddenly racists instead of homophobes.
    You would run around, scratching your head, looking for labels and boxes to put them in, when it would never occur to you that these people are simply violent scrotes and arseholes.

    So while there is no doubting that these people are racists and homophobes, simply sticking a label on them and sticking them in a box going "well that was easy!" is being incredibly naive and simplistic.
    You have to look deeper than simply labeling people. Because just slapping a label on someone is as bad as a racist labeling black people because of their color. It's lazy and idiotic.


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    #46
    Call Me Jimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,449 ✭✭✭Call Me Jimmy


    You've been told and you know that the type of scumbags who attack strangers are not going to be 'progressive' in their speech while doing it. You know already that these are unthinking cretins and they most likely will not have positive views about gays, blacks, asians, even people from a bus stop away. You've been told by a local that there is a lot of trouble in the area, and you just need to imply that they're out their searching for gays to bash.


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    #47
    Blacktie.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭Blacktie.


    Joeytheparrot wrote:
    It is more awful if they are gay and they are targeted because they are gay.


    This is exactly the point we are trying to make here. It's pretty likely they weren't targeted because they where gay. They just happened to be gay in this incident.


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    #48
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    seannash wrote: »
    Interesting. Can you link me to a case.
    If that's the case I would whole heartedly disagree with the conviction in such a case.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2748062/Savage-homophobic-attack-straight-man-left-broken-arm-turned-woman-s-advances-street.html

    https://www.gaystarnews.com/article/straight-man-left-metal-plates-face-life-after-anti-gay-attack110614/

    I cant find any other cases off hand but I know there have been. It also works that way in Irish equality legislation. A straight person can also be the victim of homophobic discrimination.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Joeytheparrot wrote:
    I cant find any other cases off hand but I know there have been. It also works that way in Irish equality legislation. A straight person can also be the victim of homophobic discrimination.

    ..... So if I called an anorexic a fat ****er, am I fat shaming?


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    #50
    Mam of 4
    Registered Users Posts: 21,827 ✭✭✭✭Mam of 4


    AllForIt wrote: »
    That's shocking really when you think about it.

    The one thing I wouldn't say though is that 'it was the weed' that was in some way the root cause of what they did. Not that I think you are saying that MO4.

    It blows my crank when sentences are handed down for such brutal crimes that their socio-economic background is taken into account. That policy is soo sooo wrong and it is why those same apes feel they can do whatever they like.

    The sad reality of it is that they are doing what they like and nothing is being done about it tbh .

    I just hope the decent people in the area support and help the innocent victim and his partner in all of this :(


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    #51
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Call Me Jimmy wrote: »
    You've been told and you know that the type of scumbags who attack strangers are not going to be 'progressive' in their speech while doing it. You know already that these are unthinking cretins and they most likely will not have positive views about gays, blacks, asians, even people from a bus stop away. You've been told by a local that there is a lot of trouble in the area, and you just need to imply that they're out their searching for gays to bash.
    I'm not implying that actually. There's no need to be patronising. I am saying that if homophobic language is used then its a homophobic attack. Everyone who has disagreed with me hasn't exactly justified their position other than "it wasnt targeted" and "scumbags be scumbaggin"

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #52
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Blacktie. wrote: »
    This is exactly the point we are trying to make here. It's pretty likely they weren't targeted because they where gay. They just happened to be gay in this incident.

    Why is it likely? I dont know whether it is or not to be honest. And if there was homophobic language used are you saying that that doesnt matter?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #53
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2748062/Savage-homophobic-attack-straight-man-left-broken-arm-turned-woman-s-advances-street.html

    https://www.gaystarnews.com/article/straight-man-left-metal-plates-face-life-after-anti-gay-attack110614/

    I cant find any other cases off hand but I know there have been. It also works that way in Irish equality legislation. A straight person can also be the victim of homophobic discrimination.
    Just skimming through but the second case was tried as grievous bodily harm and the first I don't believe was tried yet. The police treating it as a homophobic attack and it being tried as one are two different things. Once evidence is provided then it's classed appropriately.
    I'm not saying that theses weren't motivated by hate, I'm simply saying that its not going to be classed as one.


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    #54
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Joeytheparrot wrote:
    Why is it likely? I dont know whether it is or not to be honest. And if there was homophobic language used are you saying that that doesnt matter?
    It's likely because random acts of violence is common in that area. And to be honest, it's the casual violence that bothers me most, not the language used.


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    #55
    squawker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 501 ✭✭✭squawker


    came here from the front page, absolutely shameful what happened to that couple and my heart goes out to them

    but I am not surprised, this is the reality of life in small town Ireland. I hear it every day


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    #56
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,287 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Look, this is a sensitive issue.

    The number of ppl in Ireland who have been physically attacked because they are gay is not particularly high, or was it ever?

    But it is in other countries and I think we should be mindful of that.

    If the rest of the world had the same attitudes to homosexuality as we have here now then maybe these types of cases wouldn't be co contentious.

    I do get that the wider populace feel insulted, especially after the result of the gay marriage ref, that some would say we're living in a homophobic country. That the attitude still persists as it always has. I don't believer this at all.

    I live in a county town now and I've never felt the 6 years I've lived here even the slightest bit of homophobia towards me. Not once. In fact when I go down to the local dive when I tell other party goers I'm gay it was always a point of interest in the convo. In fact I though it an advantage rather than standing there by myself drinking myself silly like the hetro men I see there all the time.


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    #57
    JustJoe7240
    Registered Users Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭JustJoe7240


    squawker wrote: »
    came here from the front page, absolutely shameful what happened to that couple and my heart goes out to them

    but I am not surprised, this is the reality of life in small town Ireland. I hear it every day

    What exactly is the reality of life in small time Ireland? unprovoked attacks?

    Can't help but think these lads are milking it at this stage, Bit odd setting up a go fund me page for medical bills, But why leave it open if the goal has been reached 10k ago?


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    #58
    speckled_park
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭speckled_park


    Pretty shocking attack. Wasnt surprised when i heard about it. Portlaoise is fairly rough in spots. Im from Laois. You could call it a homophobic attack considering the language used but these scum would beat up anyone at that hour regardless of sexual orientation, so i wouldnt class it as one. I was jumped on out of blue one night in portlaoise for no reason, lucky enough i was sober so able to sprint away.


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    #59
    Blacktie.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭Blacktie.


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Why is it likely? I dont know whether it is or not to be honest. And if there was homophobic language used are you saying that that doesnt matter?

    It's likely because this area is known to be rough regardless of the background of the individual.

    Yes I'm saying that doesn't matter. Like a lot of previous posters have said if they where ginger they would have used anti ginger language, if black or arab then race issues. Just because homophobic language is used it doesn't make it a targeted attack.


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    #60
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    I don't see why it has to be targeted to count as homophobic, how many people walked by there and were or weren't attacked? It doesn't matter if people are regularly attacked or not, only that these people were because they are gay, which we can't say yet but is likely judging by the language used


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    #61
    Blacktie.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭Blacktie.


    riffmongous wrote: »
    only that these people were because they are gay, which we can't say yet but is likely judging by the language used

    Well me and a lot of posters here disagree.


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