Disgusting homophobic attack in Portlaoise

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Put it this way, if I treated every gay person as a victim and someone who needed protection, I would be treating them not as an equal.

If a gay person perceived themselves as a victim of homophobia, as in this story, I would take it on a case by case basis and come to a conclusion as to whether or not it was in fact homophobia due to evidence given.

Starting at the point where you assume someone to be a victim in all cases rather than starting at a point of equality is discriminatory.

Vulnerability is the way a person feels, homophobia is an act of discrimination.

It's not comparing like for like.

It's comparing a feeling to an act of hatred/bigotry

One is subjective, one is not

This is the first time I’ve ever heard vulnerability being described as a feeling. It seems a weird definition.

Wouldn’t you say someone walking home at night alone is more vulnerable than someone with a group of friends?

Yes people can feel vulnerable but they can also actually be vulnerable. Sometimes they’re both.

Nobody’s asking you to treat them like a victim. You can recognise that a trans person is far more likely to face discrimination than you are and still treat them as an equal.

And in a case where a gay person is beaten and homophobic language is used it’s hardly an assumption to think of them as a victim.

JackTaylorFan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My qualifications? I am a person. A person who wants to discuss the horrific matter of the attack.

I was unaware that because I am not gay or tran that I am not entitled to discuss what I think qualifies as homophobia or transphobia.

But now that I have put my head above the parapet and had the audacity to give a privileged opinion, I have now been labeled transphobic and homophobic despite not saying one thing to that effect.

I did not lecture anyone here. I simply gave my opinion. An opinion that still stands.

And yes, I do have quite a high post count on this thread. Mostly because I do feel the need to defend myself when my words are misrepresented and when I am accused of things that aren't true.

I am willing to listen to anyone and attempt to understanding. D their views on any subject. Some people aren't.

I do not "perceive" you as a transphobe or a homophobe

JackTaylorFan

JackTaylorFan wrote:

Secondly, what people are unhappy with is non LGBTQ people trying to dictate what is and isn't homophobic to people who actually experience homophobia.

Well by that token, why would it be OK for non cis white straight males to dictate what cis white male privilege is to cis white men when theyve never experienced it themselves?

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote:

Wouldn’t you say someone walking home at night alone is more vulnerable than someone with a group of friends?

Yes. And that is my point. I am of the opinion that the two guys that were beaten up were no more or less vulnerable than any other people who happened to walk past those gang of ****.

That's why in this case I don't think this was a homophobic attack.

That was the only point I was trying to make

JackTaylorFan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well by that token, why would it be OK for non cis white straight males to dictate what cis white male privilege is to cis white men when theyve never experienced it themselves?

You seem angry

JackTaylorFan

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Your clearly a condescending ****e as is obvious anytime you post and you know full well you have yourself a little safe space here where no one can tell you your wrong.

Pretty sure name calling is against the rules.. but okay...

Also... It's you're not your

JackTaylorFan

JackTaylorFan wrote:

You seem angry

Not at all. Just pointing out some more hypocrisy on your part.

JackTaylorFan

There is a marked correlation to be found between poor grammar and bigotry. This is a general rule in life.

B0jangles

Deleted User wrote: »

My qualifications? I am a person. A person who wants to discuss the horrific matter of the attack.

I was unaware that because I am not gay or tran that I am not entitled to discuss what I think qualifies as homophobia or transphobia.

But now that I have put my head above the parapet and had the audacity to give a privileged opinion, I have now been labeled transphobic and homophobic despite not saying one thing to that effect.

I did not lecture anyone here. I simply gave my opinion. An opinion that still stands.

And yes, I do have quite a high post count on this thread. Mostly because I do feel the need to defend myself when my words are misrepresented and when I am accused of things that aren't true.

I am willing to listen to anyone and attempt to understanding. D their views on any subject. Some people aren't.

Ok, you've given your opinion - thoroughly, repeatedly and at length. The question remains - why do you think it is appropriate or reasonable for you to expect posters here to explain their own experiences to you? - it seems grossly entitled behaviour to me.

JackTaylorFan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not at all. Just pointing out some more hypocrisy on your part.

^This cishet is very upset.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes. And that is my point. I am of the opinion that the two guys that were beaten up were no more or less vulnerable than any other people who happened to walk past those gang of ****.

That's why in this case I don't think this was a homophobic attack.

That was the only point I was trying to make

Well in the case of Portlaoise we don’t actually know if homophoboc language was used.

But assume it was for the sake of argument.

In that case you have no way of knowing that a straight couple would be equally as vulnerable.

You would have two pieces of information. One that an attack took place. Two that homophobic language was used.

Why would you assume that a straight couple would definitely or very probably have been attacked equally.

I have friends that were called queers while walking down aungier st last year holding hands. Am I to assume that straight couples, fat people etc. Might also have been abused similarly, even though they weren’t, and hundreds of other people walked by without any comment?

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well by that token, why would it be OK for non cis white straight males to dictate what cis white male privilege is to cis white men when theyve never experienced it themselves?

The privilege is absence of particular negative experiences. I don’t pretend to know what straight guys experience when they experience things that are unique to them. If they ever wanted to explain some of their unique experiences I’d listen.

yoke

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Put it this way, if I treated every gay person as a victim and someone who needed protection, I would be treating them not as an equal.
<...>

But surely since homophobes do exist, every gay person does need protection from them? Similar to how ethnic minorities need protection from racists.

You've completely misunderstood what "treating people as equals" actually means - you've taken it literally.

Next time I see Hulk Hogan crossing the road I'm going to run over and hold his hand while I help him cross the road, and the next time I find myself in the company of a small child I'm going to talk to him/her about Astrophysics and what their opinions on Einstein's theories are.

B0jangles

B0jangles wrote:

Ok, you've given your opinion - thoroughly, repeatedly and at length. The question remains - why do you think it is appropriate or reasonable for you to expect posters here to explain their own experiences to you? - it seems grossly entitled behaviour to me.

Really? On a discussion board, I have discussed a topic.

I have been accused of bigotry (without substance), being "privileged", compared to a Holocaust denier and when I have said that I am willing to listen to people's experiences I am now being accused of being "entitled"?




It's beyond parody at this stage.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote:

Why would you assume that a straight couple would definitely or very probably have been attacked equally.

Because of other posters who know the area stating that violent attacks are commonplace.

B0jangles

Deleted User wrote: »

Really? On a discussion board, I have discussed a topic.

I have been accused of bigotry (without substance), being "privileged", compared to a Holocaust denier and when I have said that I am willing to listen to people's experiences I am now being accused of being "entitled"?

It's beyond parody at this stage.

You and your opinions are not the centre of the discussion. This is a thread about a possible homophobic attack in a subforum in which LGBTI people are supposed to be able to post about issues they face without having to explain what f*cking homophobia is to a bunch of armchair theorists and 'Just to play devil's advocate' timesinks.


Would you expect to be allowed gatecrash an astrophysics conference and then demand the attendees explain the principle of the lever to you? That's the kind of entitlement I'm talking about.

B0jangles

B0jangles wrote:

Would you expect to be allowed gatecrash an astrophysics conference and then demand the attendees explain the principle of the lever to you? That's the kind of entitlement I'm talking about.

I've repeatedly tried to get this thread back on topic but felt the need to defend myself from petty and unfounded accusations.

I didn't realise that apparently unless I am gay my opinion means nothing and I should just be quiet and let the experts talk.

I won't speak unless I'm spoken to

JackTaylorFan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I've repeatedly tried to get this thread back on topic but felt the need to defend myself from petty and unfounded accusations

Now, see, you are starting to get a sense of what LGBTQ people face everyday and not just on an internet forum. Keep it up and you might actually develop empathy

Well done, Dunne

baby and crumble

Alright guys I'm closing the thread because it's turned into a bit of a sh*tshow. I'm in work right now and I don't have time to moderate or respond to the many reported posts now.

In general;

No name calling
No baiting

In general, and in the charter, this is a place for the LGBTQ community to feel like we have a space we can discuss issues without feeling the need to defend our experiences, in particular to straight folks. In this way, the LGBTQ board is a bit different to others on Boards in g eneral- if you don't like it, then don't post here.

DO NOT OPEN A NEW THREAD ON THE TOPIC.

baby and crumble

Alright guys I’ve gone through the thread (yay traffic and bus commutes) and given out a few warnings. There’s no point infracting the same people for loads of stuff.

Like I said above, the LGBT forum is a place where it’s not appropriate for straight and cisgender folks to lecture and play devils advocate about the queer experience. It’s in the charter.

Start playing nice, everyone!