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Disgusting homophobic attack in Portlaoise

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    #62
    squawker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 501 ✭✭✭squawker


    JustJoe7240 wrote: »
    What exactly is the reality of life in small time Ireland? unprovoked attacks?

    havent lived in small town Ireland in years thank fcuk

    all I know is one of my best friends growing up had to endure bullying and a few beatings from a gang of retards for years, this story brought it all back to me


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    #63
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,314 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Blacktie. wrote: »
    Well me and a lot of posters here disagree.

    That's a very odd statement. Were your there?


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    #64
    Blacktie.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭Blacktie.


    AllForIt wrote: »
    That's a very odd statement. Were your there?

    Of course I can't say for sure. All I said was a lot of posters here disagree it was a targeted assault specifically against gay people.


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    #65
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Blacktie. wrote: »
    Well me and a lot of posters here disagree.

    So? Just because thugs like to beat people up doesn't mean they arent homophobic or racist as well, in fact I'd say they commonly are.


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    #66
    bob50
    Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭bob50


    Terrible to hear those lads got bashed

    But it happens as well in cities also A good gay friend of mine in his 50s was jumped on a week ago coming out of The George Bar when he was walking up Dame st heading home about 1.00 am luckilly he wasnt too bad. But "gay bashing" still goes on


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    #67
    Blacktie.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭Blacktie.


    riffmongous wrote: »
    So? Just because thugs like to beat people up doesn't mean they arent homophobic or racist as well, in fact I'd say they commonly are.

    Sure sometimes they are. Maybe a lot of the time. But that doesn't mean that was the motivation of the attack.


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    #68
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    riffmongous wrote: »
    So? Just because thugs like to beat people up doesn't mean they arent homophobic or racist as well, in fact I'd say they commonly are.

    There seems to be a desire for it to be labelled a homophobic attack rather than using logic and calling it an attack.
    Are people trying to push an agenda that homophobia is rampant in Irish society?


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    #69
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    seannash wrote: »
    There seems to be a desire for it to be labelled a homophobic attack rather than using logic and calling it an attack.
    Are people trying to push an agenda that homophobia is rampant in Irish society?
    There seems to be an even greater desire for any homophobic aspects to be ignored..


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    #70
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Blacktie. wrote: »
    Sure sometimes they are. Maybe a lot of the time. But that doesn't mean that was the motivation of the attack.

    Only a full investigation will tell.


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    #71
    Blacktie.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭Blacktie.


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Only a full investigation will tell.

    Somehow I doubt the investigation will yield any results tbh.


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    #72
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    riffmongous wrote: »
    There seems to be an even greater desire for any homophobic aspects to be ignored..

    I think everyone acknowledge that homophobic slurs were used during the attack. But what most are saying is that homophobia wasn't the motivation.


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    #73
    Klonker
    Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Klonker


    2 scenarios:

    1. Gang sees gay couple and attack cos they are gay. This is a homophobic attack because they were attacked because they were gay.

    2. Gang sees random 2 people and attack cos that's what scumbags do. When they get close to attacking they see the couple are holding hands and start shouting homophobic slurs to make the victims feel worse. If victims were black/fat/ginger etc. they'd shout something else. This not a homophobic attack as they were not attacked because they were gay.

    If you can't see difference between both scenarios it's because you don't want to.

    We don't know which scenario this case was.


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    #74
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    It is more awful if they are gay and they are targeted because they are gay.

    You are saying that they are more deserving of sympathy and attention then say, a black couple, just because they are gay. Why?


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    #75
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,982 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    splinter65 wrote: »
    You are saying that they are more deserving of sympathy and attention then say, a black couple, just because they are gay. Why?

    No. I am saying if they were deliberately attacked because they are gay then they deserve sympathy. Don't try and twist my words.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #76
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,982 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Klonker wrote: »
    2 scenarios:

    1. Gang sees gay couple and attack cos they are gay. This is a homophobic attack because they were attacked because they were gay.

    2. Gang sees random 2 people and attack cos that's what scumbags do. When they get close to attacking they see the couple are holding hands and start shouting homophobic slurs to make the victims feel worse. If victims were black/fat/ginger etc. they'd shout something else. This not a homophobic attack as they were not attacked because they were gay.

    If you can't see difference between both scenarios it's because you don't want to.

    We don't know which scenario this case was.

    I don't distinguish between both cases. They are both homophobic attacks in my view. I think the attempt to distinguish is an insidious attempt to deny and minimise the homophobia involved.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #77
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Joeytheparrot wrote:
    I don't distinguish between both cases. They are both homophobic attacks in my view. I think the attempt to distinguish is an insidious attempt to deny and minimise the homophobia involved.

    You may not distinguish between the two (and that is your right) but thankfully the majority of posters can.


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    #78
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,982 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You may not distinguish between the two (and that is your right) but thankfully the majority of posters can.

    Can you explain why you want to minimise and deny homophobia?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #79
    Squatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Squatter


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You may not distinguish between the two (and that is your right) but thankfully the majority of posters can.

    Vive la difference! :D


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    #80
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Joeytheparrot wrote:
    Can you explain why you want to minimise and deny homophobia?

    I cant, because I don't.

    I just don't ascribe every act of random violence against a gay person as a homophobic attack.

    This has been explained to you on numerous occasions in very clear language. You are either unable or unwilling to understand and seem to want to label anyone who disagrees as some sort of homophobe apologist, when to be honest, the act of crying homophobia when it isn't applicable does more to damage to genuine cases (in much the same way as crying sexual assault for an accidental bum squeeze or for unsolicited staring is an insult to real victims)


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    #81
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,745 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    What part of Portlaoise did this take place?


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    #82
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Mods, would it be possible to create a new subforum specifically for the large number of posters who march in lockstep with the

    'I hate PC/SJW/Feminazis, Facts not feelings, let me explain to you how X isn't racist/sexist/homophobic' - brigade?

    I think a lot of other subforums would be greatly improved if something could be done to quarantine them, and they could post in there to their heart's content.


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    #83
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    B0jangles wrote:
    'I hate PC/SJW/Feminazis, Facts not feelings, let me explain to you how X isn't racist/sexist/homophobic' - brigade?

    Really?


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    #84
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,982 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I cant, because I don't.

    I just don't ascribe every act of random violence against a gay person as a homophobic attack.

    This has been explained to you on numerous occasions in very clear language. You are either unable or unwilling to understand and seem to want to label anyone who disagrees as some sort of homophobe apologist, when to be honest, the act of crying homophobia when it isn't applicable does more to damage to genuine cases (in much the same way as crying sexual assault for an accidental bum squeeze or for unsolicited staring is an insult to real victims)

    In my view you are completely trying to minimise and deny homophobia. By actually separating out the homophobia from the attack itself. I mean you are saying homophobia isnt applicable in this case (if we make the assumption that there was homophobic language used) despite the fact that homophobic language and slurs were used. I don't think that is being an apologist but it definitely is minimising it and denying it.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #85
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,982 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    B0jangles wrote: »
    Mods, would it be possible to create a new subforum specifically for the large number of posters who march in lockstep with the

    'I hate PC/SJW/Feminazis, Facts not feelings, let me explain to you how X isn't racist/sexist/homophobic' - brigade?

    I think a lot of other subforums would be greatly improved if something could be done to quarantine them, and they could post in there to their heart's content.

    I was thinking about this thread last night and how it resonates so much with Pantis famous speech.
    Have you ever been standing at a pedestrian crossing when a car goes by and in it are a bunch of lads, and they lean out the window as they go by, and they shout "Fag!" and throw a milk carton at you?Now, it doesn't really hurt. I mean, after all, it's just a wet carton, and in many ways they're right – I am a fag. So it doesn't hurt. But it feels oppressive.When it really does hurt, is afterwards. Afterwards I wonder and worry and obsess over: what was it about me? What was it they saw in me? What was it that gave me away? And I hate myself for wondering that. It feels oppressive and the next time I'm standing at a pedestrian crossing, I hate myself for it, but I check myself to see what is it about me that "gives the gay away". And I check myself to make sure I'm not doing it this time....For the last three weeks, I have been lectured to by heterosexual people about what homophobia is, and about who is allowed to identify it. Straight people have lined up - ministers, senators, barristers, journalists - have lined up to tell me what homophobia is, and to tell me what I am allowed to feel oppressed by.People who have never experienced homophobia in their lives, people who have never checked themselves at a pedestrian crossing, have told me that unless I am being thrown into prison, or herded onto a cattle truck, then it is not homophobia. And that feels oppressive.And so now, Irish gay people, we find ourselves in this ludicrous situation where we are not only not allowed to say publicly what we feel oppressed by, we're not even allowed to think it, because the very definition - our definition - has been disallowed by our betters.And for the last three weeks, I've been denounced - from the floor of the Oireachtas [the Irish parliament], to newspaper columns, to the seething morass of internet commentary - denounced for using hate speech because I dared to use the word 'homophobia', and a jumped-up queer like me should know that the word homophobia is no longer available to gay people. Which is a spectacular and neat Orwellian trick, because now it turns out that gay people are not the victims of homophobia, homophobes are the victims of homophobia]

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #86
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    If someone is mugged just after leaving a gay bar, and the mugger not only takes their wallet, but kicks them in the stomach and calls them a 'f*cking f*ggot*, the attack is a mugging with a side order of homophobia. The primary motivation for the attack was to steal a wallet, but a secondary aim was to hurt a gay person.

    Things don't have to be 100% driven by homophobia to qualify as homophobic.


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    #87
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    No. I am saying if they were deliberately attacked because they are gay then they deserve sympathy. Don't try and twist my words.

    I’m not twisting your words. I put it to you that it is awful if people are deliberately attacked for being, fat, black, gay etc. (its awful to be attacked for any reason) and that anyone having had this happen deserves sympathy.
    You confirmed that you think it’s more awful if the victims are gay.
    I think that’s what people are here on this thread arguing with you about.
    There isn’t a hierarchy of victimhood.
    A bloody nose and a split lip is not worse for a gay man then a traveler man or a Pakistani man.
    Violence of any type like this is totally unacceptable. Regardless of the motive.


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    #88
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,982 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    splinter65 wrote: »
    I’m not twisting your words. I put it to you that it is awful if people are deliberately attacked for being, fat, black, gay etc. (its awful to be attacked for any reason) and that anyone having had this happen deserves sympathy.
    You confirmed that you think it’s more awful if the victims are gay.
    I think that’s what people are here on this thread arguing with you about.
    There isn’t a hierarchy of victimhood.
    A bloody nose and a split lip is not worse for a gay man then a traveler man or a Pakistani man.
    Violence of any type like this is totally unacceptable. Regardless of the motive.

    You are twisting my words. Completely twisting them.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #89
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Joeytheparrot wrote:
    In my view you are completely trying to minimise and deny homophobia. By actually separating out the homophobia from the attack itself. I mean you are saying homophobia isnt applicable in this case (if we make the assumption that there was homophobic language used) despite the fact that homophobic language and slurs were used. I don't think that is being an apologist but it definitely is minimising it and denying it.

    What if I was attacked randomly in a dodgy area and during the beating they called me a fat ****? That wouldn't be a fat shaming attack. It would be a random act of violence where they insulted me during the attack.

    You would assume, from posters saying that random attacks are commonplace in that area, that this was a random beating in which some homophobic insults were thrown., not a homophobic attack.

    But look, you have already said you cant/won't differentiate so we are going around in circles. I'm not downplaying anything I just have a difference of opinion.


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    #90
    seachto7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,863 ✭✭✭seachto7


    I was called a “******” loads of times in my youth when getting picked on or hassled by scumbags. I’m straight. That’s what scumbags do. What would you expect from a pig but a grunt.


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    #91
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    You are twisting my words. Completely twisting them.

    Can’t see how I am but if that’s how you feel then it can’t be helped. That’s how your coming across to me.


This discussion has been closed.
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