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So who's going to see the Pope?

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  • Options
    #3452
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,131 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Camila Famous Granule wrote: »
    It's remarkable how the BBC, the Irish Times, and numerous other media sources are all publishing entirely different interpretations of the ESS data -- and yet you're the one dancing around insisting that you are right and everyone else is wrong.

    Ask yourself which is most likely to be 'right' The interpretation of the figures or the actual figures themselves?

    You took and quoted journalistic slant on the data.


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    #3453
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,353 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Ask yourself which is most likely to be 'right' The interpretation of the figures or the actual figures themselves?

    You took and quoted journalistic slant on the data.


    not only that but all the publications are quoting different figures and he doesn't seem to have an issue with that.


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    #3454
    Sycamore Tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Sycamore Tree


    cozar wrote: »
    and still there will be thousands of children making their communion and confirmation next year.?
    Yeah and for all the right reasons :D


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    #3455
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Why would a gay child need psychiatry?

    He didn't say that a gay child "needs psychiatry."

    This is the same pope who told a gay man: “God made you like this and loves you like this and I don’t care."


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    #3456
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    I am just posting the actual data. How is then that the BBC and IT quote different figures? they can't both be right.

    You may as well write to the BBC, Irish Times, and countless other media organizations and enlighten them all then.


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    #3457
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Camila Famous Granule wrote: »
    This is the same pope who told a gay man: “God made you like this and loves you like this and I don’t care."

    Meanwhile the church as a whole still see's gay men and women as unnatural, disordered and evil.

    So again the pope says "nice words" but the church's own policy's don't change at all.

    :rolleyes:


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    #3458
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    It is funny how they apparently looked at the same data as the IT and came up with a different figure. the IT said 36% and they are saying over 40%.

    The IT said 36 percent of Irish adults attend religious services. The BBC is showing around 44 percent of Irish Catholics attending mass. Both figures can be correct.


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    #3459
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,353 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Camila Famous Granule wrote: »
    You may as well write to the BBC, Irish Times, and countless other media organizations and enlighten them all then.


    Much like the catholic church you have no interest in the truth.


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    #3460
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,648 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I'd say anyone who thinks 40% of catholics go to mass once a week is off their head or exists in a little bubble of delusion.

    Where did they get that number from? Surveying people coming out of mass? :pac:


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    #3461
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,315 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Camila Famous Granule wrote: »
    You may as well write to the BBC, Irish Times, and countless other media organizations and enlighten them all then.

    or you could just read the data yourself - you brought that ESS source to this thread through dubious media interpretations of the underlying data

    you then asked me to find the data myself

    someone then actually went to the bother of doing so for you

    you have been presented with raw data from your source which contradicts the two media interpretations you've posted

    So knock off the indignant act and just read the data yourself...


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    #3462
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    So Frank is gone. What have we learned?
    Frank is not above telling porkies. He claimed to have no knowledge of the mother and baby homes. Yet he met Philomena Lee some years ago.
    Of the 500k expected only 130k turned up .
    Less than 20k on the streets Saturday to view his motorcade far less than the projected 100k.
    Turnout in Knock far less than the expected 45k. Conclusion people don't give a f**k about the church anymore.
    Can't see a pope risking the PR disaster this event has been for at least another 40 to 50 years.


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    #3463
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Meanwhile the church as a whole still see's gay men and women as unnatural, disordered and evil.

    So again the pope says "nice words" but the church's own policy's don't change at all.

    :rolleyes:

    The pope wrote Amoris Laetitia, an apostolic exhortation, to tell those people who would see homosexuals as "unnatural, disordered, and evil" that he no longer wishes to see the Church react in that manner. He has made it clear that he doesn't agree with those attitudes and -- by issuing an apostolic exhortation -- that he wishes to change them.


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    #3464
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,131 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Camila Famous Granule wrote: »
    He didn't say that a gay child "needs psychiatry."

    This is the same pope who told a gay man: “God made you like this and loves you like this and I don’t care."

    Which is more evidence of how this church says one thing while doing the direct opposite.


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    #3465
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,792 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    So Frank is gone. What have we learned?
    Frank is not above telling porkies. He claimed to have no knowledge of the mother and baby homes. Yet he met Philomena Lee some years ago.
    Of the 500k expected only 130k turned up .
    Less than 20k on the streets Saturday to view his motorcade far less than the projected 100k.
    Turnout in Knock far less than the expected 45k. Conclusion people don't give a f**k about the church anymore.
    Can't see a pope risking the PR disaster this event has been for at least another 40 to 50 years.
    We'll never see a pope in ireland again IMO.
    And we'll be all the better for it.


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    #3466
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,792 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Which is more evidence of how this church says one thing while doing the direct opposite.
    And how people can easily manipulate statistics.
    40% of catholics attend weekly mass is a heck of a lot different from 40% of adults.
    The 40% of catholics is a subset of a subset. And they are dying out


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    #3467
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    lawred2 wrote: »
    just read the data yourself...

    Maybe you could take your own advice?

    You haven't looked anything up yourself, from what I can tell.


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    #3468
    Technocentral
    Registered Users Posts: 6,102 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    So Frank is gone. What have we learned?
    Frank is not above telling porkies. He claimed to have no knowledge of the mother and baby homes. Yet he met Philomena Lee some years ago.
    Of the 500k expected only 130k turned up .
    Less than 20k on the streets Saturday to view his motorcade far less than the projected 100k.
    Turnout in Knock far less than the expected 45k. Conclusion people don't give a f**k about the church anymore.
    Can't see a pope risking the PR disaster this event has been for at least another 40 to 50 years.

    The answer of how many people are actual Catholics could be answered very easily, all Catholic church's should release their attendance figures for a month (Saturday/Sunday) I suspect it would be about 21 or 22% max. A lot down the bog only go because they're worried about what the neigbours think.


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    #3469
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,315 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Camila Famous Granule wrote: »
    Maybe you could take your own advice?

    You haven't looked anything up yourself, from what I can tell.

    I'm out

    You are a bluffer


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    #3470
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,458 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Camila Famous Granule wrote: »
    To the question on how a family should treat a gay or lesbian child, the pope said: "To ignore a son or daughter with homosexual tendencies is a lack of paternity and maternity. You are my son, you are my daughter as you are! I’m your father, mother. Let’s talk! And if you, father and mother aren’t up to it, ask for help, but always in dialogue because that son and that daughter have the right to a family and that family of not being chased out of the family."

    This is a message of acceptance. He's telling parents who reject gay children that they are not fulfilling their parental role. He's telling gay children that they too have the right to a family. So where's the problem?

    Why do people need the pope's advice on this?

    If he said the opposite do they then just disown their children.

    Can people not just think for themselves?

    Who needs a church to tell you to love your children?


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    #3471
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,353 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    lawred2 wrote: »
    or you could just read the data yourself - you brought that ESS source to this thread through dubious media interpretations of the underlying data

    you then asked me to find the data myself

    someone then actually went to the bother of doing so for you

    you have been presented with raw data from your source which contradicts the two media interpretations you've posted

    So knock off the indignant act and just read the data yourself...


    And funnily enough he is quite happy to accept the figures from the IT and BBC and discounts the figures from irishcatholic.com. This is despite the figures from irishcatholic.com matching the actual figures from the ESS.


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  • Options
    #3472
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,353 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Camila Famous Granule wrote: »
    Maybe you could take your own advice?

    You haven't looked anything up yourself, from what I can tell.




    well i have looked it up and shown you the actual figures from the ESS and you dismissed them. you have no interest in the real figures because they do not fit your narrative.


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    #3473
    Taytoland
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    So Frank is gone. What have we learned?
    Frank is not above telling porkies. He claimed to have no knowledge of the mother and baby homes. Yet he met Philomena Lee some years ago.
    Of the 500k expected only 130k turned up .
    Less than 20k on the streets Saturday to view his motorcade far less than the projected 100k.
    Turnout in Knock far less than the expected 45k. Conclusion people don't give a f**k about the church anymore.
    Can't see a pope risking the PR disaster this event has been for at least another 40 to 50 years.
    The Pope will never be back. Why bother when you can only attract a hundred thousand at best.


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    #3474
    Sycamore Tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Sycamore Tree


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    So Frank is gone. What have we learned?
    Frank is not above telling porkies. He claimed to have no knowledge of the mother and baby homes. Yet he met Philomena Lee some years ago.
    Of the 500k expected only 130k turned up .
    Less than 20k on the streets Saturday to view his motorcade far less than the projected 100k.
    Turnout in Knock far less than the expected 45k. Conclusion people don't give a f**k about the church anymore.
    Can't see a pope risking the PR disaster this event has been for at least another 40 to 50 years.
    We'll never see a pope in ireland again IMO.
    And we'll be all the better for it.

    No we will never see the pope here again. Unless he is extradited but that's unlikely.


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    #3475
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    And funnily enough he is quite happy to accept the figures from the IT and BBC and discounts the figures from irishcatholic.com. This is despite the figures from irishcatholic.com matching the actual figures from the ESS.

    The figures from the Irish Catholic relate to young people aged 16 to 29, and show that 24 percent of them attend weekly mass.

    Christ almighty...

    -- Irish adults
    -- Irish Catholic adults
    -- young Irish Catholic adults

    Can you not appreciate why the mass-going rates of the above groups would be different?

    Curiously, none of the figures given by any media outlet are consistent with your personal interpretation of the data.

    Either every single media organization in the Western world is wrong, or you are wrong. And yet here you are, grandiosely claiming that you're the only one who has interpreted the ESS datasets correctly.


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    #3476
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,648 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Anyone who believes almost one quarter of 16 to 29 year olds attends a mass once a week is an idiot.


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    #3477
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,353 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Camila Famous Granule wrote: »
    The figures from the Irish Catholic relate to young people aged 16 to 29, and show that 24 percent of them attend weekly mass.

    Christ almighty...

    -- Irish adults
    -- Irish Catholic adults
    -- young Irish Catholic adults

    Can you not appreciate why the mass-going rates of the above groups would be different?

    Curiously, none of the figures given by any media outlet are consistent with your personal interpretation of the data.

    Either every single media organization in the Western world is wrong, or you are wrong. And yet here you are, grandiosely claiming that you're the only one who has interpreted the ESS datasets correctly.


    the irish catholic said 10% not 24%

    The survey also revealed that approximately one in 10 young Irish Catholics attend religious services on a weekly basis, excluding special occasions such as weddings or funerals, while 31% of the same category said they pray weekly or more.


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    #3478
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    murpho999 wrote: »
    Why do people need the pope's advice on this?

    If he said the opposite do they then just disown their children.

    Can people not just think for themselves?

    Who needs a church to tell you to love your children?

    The pope was asked a question and he responded.

    Sadly, there have been many cases of Catholic parents in the past who felt that they could not accept their gay children because of Church teaching.

    Recognizing this, Pope Francis is telling parents that they should accept their children regardless of their sexuality, and should enter into dialogue and discussion about what it means to be gay, or what it means to come to terms with a gay child.

    But you've evidently decided that no matter what the pope says, you're just going to look for something to criticize.


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    #3479
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    the irish catholic said 10% not 24%

    The Irish Catholic said 24% of young people.
    Irish young adults remain among the most religious young adults in Europe, with around 24% of young people attending Mass weekly, according to the latest figures from the European Social Survey (ESS).

    Link: https://www.irishcatholic.com/young-irish-mass-attendance-still-remarkably-high-numbers-show/


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    #3480
    Sam Quentin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭Sam Quentin


    murpho999 wrote: »
    Why do people need the pope's advice on this?

    If he said the opposite do they then just disown their children.

    Can people not just think for themselves?

    Who needs a church to tell you to love your children?

    But we are Catholic people of a Christian faith..
    It's nice to hear our leader say such things..


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    #3481
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,131 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Camila Famous Granule wrote: »
    The pope was asked a question and he responded.

    Sadly, there have been many cases of Catholic parents in the past who felt that they could not accept their gay children because of Church teaching.

    Recognizing this, Pope Francis is telling parents that they should accept their children regardless of their sexuality, and should enter into dialogue and discussion about what it means to be gay, or what it means to come to terms with a gay child.

    But you've evidently decided that no matter what the pope says, you're just going to look for something to criticize.

    You are claiming that this pope is some new fangled thing...he isn't. He speaks in the same way as one of his predecessors - JP11 did. In a type of language that is vague and hits all the right 'cuddly' notes. Hence this rock star celebrity bull**** surrounding him. The church is not changing though.

    It is a front.


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