Arlene foster to attend ulster final

Taytoland

FrancieBrady wrote: »

irelandrover wrote: »

I'd argue that the fact that the Irish National Anthem is played before games and the Irish flag are flown makes it nationalist.

I'd argue that is being 'Irish', just like the English team or the French team play their anthems and use their flags in support.

But not everyone who is Irish sees that as their national anthem. We need equality and respect, God save the Queen should be played.

irelandrover

Taytoland wrote: »

But not everyone who is Irish sees that as their national anthem. We need equality and respect, God save the Queen should be played.

And what about New York? We need no national anthem played.

FrancieBrady

irelandrover wrote: »

But they play the English anthem for the English team. They do not play the English anthem before a premiership match.

Gaelic is our national game, and the GAA sees itself as an Irish cultural expression.

If they play Australia they will play both anthems.

Imagine! This nationalist organisation allowed God Saves The Queen to be played in Croke Park and welcomed said Queen to it's grounds.

Something is not quite right here!

Taytoland

irelandrover wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

But not everyone who is Irish sees that as their national anthem. We need equality and respect, God save the Queen should be played.

And what about New York? We need no national anthem played.

If a national anthem needs played, then it should include God save the Queen. Same with NI matches for anyone who sees the Irish anthem representing them should be played too. If it's about equality and respect, then that is the logical conclusion you can only come to. The GAA need to represent us.

irelandrover

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Gaelic is our national game, and the GAA sees itself as an Irish cultural expression.

If they play Australia they will play both anthems.

Imagine! This nationalist organisation allowed God Saves The Queen to be played in Croke Park and welcomed said Queen to it's grounds.

Something is not quite right here!

So Gaelic is the national game of Ireland, and hence the GAA which sees itself as the cultural expression of Ireland plays the Irish National Anthem, but that doesnt make the GAA nationalistic?

FrancieBrady

Taytoland wrote: »

If a national anthem needs played, then it should include God save the Queen. Same with NI matches for anyone who sees the Irish anthem representing them should be played too. If it's about equality and respect, then that is the logical conclusion you can only come to. The GAA need to represent us.

If a club has requested this then I see no reason why not. Same as the compromise the IRFU came to.

Has any club requested this?

Donald Trump

Taytoland wrote: »

If a national anthem needs played, then it should include God save the Queen. Same with NI matches for anyone who sees the Irish anthem representing them should be played too. If it's about equality and respect, then that is the logical conclusion you can only come to. The GAA need to represent us.

I don't go to your party and tell you what music to play.


Similarly, don't come to mine and tell me what to play.


You are invited and welcome to attend, but you don't get to choose the music. We won't play anything that offends you but with we indulge you with your shite

Taytoland

Donald Trump wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

If a national anthem needs played, then it should include God save the Queen. Same with NI matches for anyone who sees the Irish anthem representing them should be played too. If it's about equality and respect, then that is the logical conclusion you can only come to. The GAA need to represent us.

I don't go to your party and tell you what music to play.


Similarly, don't come to mine and tell me what to play.


You are invited and welcome to attend, but you don't get to choose the music. We won't play anything that offends you but with we indulge you with your shite

It's not ****e, it's my national anthem. I'd like to be represented, equality and respect please. It's all I ask for. The GAA should include both anthems for the people on this Island.

Donald Trump

Taytoland wrote: »

It's not ****e, it's my national anthem. I'd like to be represented, equality and respect please. It's all I ask for. The GAA should include both anthems for the people on this Island.

So do you want it played at every event you attend?


Will you get the hump if you visit the US and go to a baseball match and it isn't played?


Teach the Orange Order marching bands to play Amhrán na bhFiann first and then come back to us.


And campaign for it to be played at any UK event. Seeing as how it represents a portion of the UK citizenship it should be played at every UK event? No?

Taytoland

Donald Trump wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

It's not ****e, it's my national anthem. I'd like to be represented, equality and respect please. It's all I ask for. The GAA should include both anthems for the people on this  Island.

So do you want it played at every event you attend?


Will you get the hump if you visit the US and go to a baseball match and it isn't played?


Teach the Orange Order marching bands to play Amhrán na bhFiann first and then come back to us.


And campaign for it to be played at any UK event. Seeing as how it represents a portion of the UK citizenship it should be played at every UK event? No?

GAA has to represent everyone and should play both anthems on big occasions.

FrancieBrady

Taytoland wrote: »

GAA has to represent everyone and should play both anthems on big occasions.

It has to represent it's members. How many have requested this?

munsterlegend

Taytoland wrote: »

It's not ****e, it's my national anthem. I'd like to be represented, equality and respect please. It's all I ask for. The GAA should include both anthems for the people on this Island.

Of course you have raised a necessary point that should be addressed. God Save the Queen should not be the anthem for a new inclusive agreed Northern Ireland now should it? A soccer club recently asked the Irish FA not to play it but were met with the usual silence. When Northern Ireland has an anthem that reflects its society perhaps then that can be played at GAA matches.

Taytoland

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

GAA has to represent everyone and should play both anthems on big occasions.

It has to represent it's members. How many have requested this?

I have written to my MP asking he take it up with the GAA and hopefully they can look to represent those from the orange tradition.

FrancieBrady

Taytoland wrote: »

I have written to my MP asking he take it up with the GAA and hopefully they can look to represent those from the orange tradition.

You didn't answer my question. How many members of the GAA have requested that GSTQ be played before matches?

Donald Trump

Taytoland wrote: »

GAA has to represent everyone and should play both anthems on big occasions.

So should British events, where they play GSTQ also play Amhrán na bhFiann? Given that they should represent all their subjects


Nothing to stop you joining your local GAA club, playing and enjoying the games and then proposing the motion through your club.




I am sure that there are lots of sports that do not play GSTQ before their games/matches. So your issue presumably isn't with them *not playing* GSTQ but rather that they play Amhrán na bhFiann alone.



Would you be ok if they played neither? Or would you insist on them playing both?

Taytoland

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

I have written to my MP asking he take it up with the GAA and hopefully they can look to represent those from the orange tradition.

You didn't answer my question. How many members of the GAA have requested that GSTQ be played before matches?

We need to get more Prods into the GAA first Francie. I'd still like to see it happen. Hopefully they can open their hearts.

FrancieBrady

Taytoland wrote: »

We need to get more Prods into the GAA first Francie. I'd still like to see it happen. Hopefully they can open their hearts.

I know plenty of Protestants playing GAA. The GAA has had Protestant presidents.

I am not aware of any requests from a member club (who propose changes to rules and constitution) for this to happen.

I agree with munsterlegend - NI needs to first agree a mutually acceptable anthem first.
That is proper respect and equality. I wonder who leads the party that consistently blocks any moves towards a mutually respectful society?

Imagine how she would be treated if she ever went to a match run by them nationalists GAA wans. Eh?

Taytoland

Arlene had the Prod Irish minister with her and another DUP prod too, so it was easy pickings for her. I don't know any Prods here who play GAA or any clubs with substantial Prod players.

alaimacerc

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

You're mixing up nationalist with just being Irish.

Nope. Other sporting bodies are Irish without being nationalist, overtly in their ethos and their rulebook. Or Irish bodies in general, if you're going to rule out everything sporty other than Gaa as "garrison games", hence "alien", hence "not Irish".

I'll give you an example, is wicklow gaa nationalistic...

And you're doing a Francie, and moving the goalposts from "nationalist" to "nationalistic"!

FrancieBrady

Taytoland wrote: »

Arlene had the Prod Irish minister with her and another DUP prod too, so it was easy pickings for her. I don't know any Prods here who play GAA or any clubs with substantial Prod players.

Heather Humphries is the local TD, and has never had a problem attending matches, she was there to welcome Arlene, as was Michelle Lynch and a whole host of people.

I would say you made a good attempt to denigrate the GAA here Tayto, but you didn't. It was pretty dismal.

Taytoland

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

Arlene had the Prod Irish minister with her and another DUP prod too, so it was easy pickings for her. I don't know any Prods here who play GAA or any clubs with substantial Prod players.

Heather Humphries is the local TD, and has never had a problem attending matches, she was there to welcome Arlene, as was Michelle Lynch and a whole host of people.

I would say you made a good attempt to denigrate the GAA here Tayto, but you didn't. It was pretty dismal.

I have defended the GAAs proud nationalist traditions. It's you who is trying to strip them away with "progressive" rubbish.

alaimacerc

Taytoland wrote: »

I don't know any Prods here who play GAA or any clubs with substantial Prod players.

Just how substantial is substantial?

FrancieBrady

alaimacerc wrote: »

Nope. Other sporting bodies are Irish without being nationalist, overtly in their ethos and their rulebook. Or Irish bodies in general, if you're going to rule out everything sporty other than Gaa as "garrison games", hence "alien", hence "not Irish".


And you're doing a Francie, and moving the goalposts from "nationalist" to "nationalistic"!

www.dictionary.com/browse/nationalistic
· tic. of, relating to, or promoting nationalism: the beginnings of a nationalist movement.


Another request for facts here:

When is the last time the GAA referred to Horse racing, Greyhound racing and Soccer and Rugby as 'Garrison games' or 'alien'.

Awaiting breathlessly for this answer.

alaimacerc

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Heather Humphries is the local TD, and has never had a problem attending matches, [...]

You're raising problems of your own making again, the better to dismiss them. As opposed to people's actual points. HH is a Prod, not a unionist. Why would she have any difficulty attending Gaa matches?

alaimacerc

FrancieBrady wrote: »

www.dictionary.com/browse/nationalistic
· tic. of, relating to, or promoting nationalism: the beginnings of a nationalist movement.

Well venue-shopped, but try a better dictionary. "Nationalist" was the claim, let's stick to "nationalist". The SDLP are an Irish Nationalist party, not an Irish Nationalistic party.

Another request for facts here:

When is the last time the GAA referred to Horse racing, Greyhound racing and Soccer and Rugby as 'Garrison games' or 'alien'.

As already mentioned, "alien" appears in the material in rulebook appendices. But your "request for facts" would be better described as "another hard tack to a topic you think you'll take less of a hiding on, than your original ludicrously infeasible claims".

FrancieBrady

alaimacerc wrote: »

You're raising problems of your own making again, the better to dismiss them. As opposed to people's actual points. HH is a Prod, not a unionist. Why would she have any difficulty attending Gaa matches?

I agree with you here. There is no reason in the world that an Irish protestant would not join or enjoy the GAA.

I was replying to Tayto's point that Heather was there because she was a 'Prod' presumably to make Arlene more comfortable.

She wasn't, she is the local TD.

FrancieBrady

alaimacerc wrote: »

Well venue-shopped, but try a better dictionary. "Nationalist" was the claim, let's stick to "nationalist". The SDLP are an Irish Nationalist party, not an Irish Nationalistic party.

Priceless.

As already mentioned, "alien" appears in the material in rulebook appendices. But your "request for facts" would be better described as "another hard tack to a topic you think you'll take less of a hiding on, than your original ludicrously infeasible claims".

Hmm another answer lacking in what was requested and long on avoiding having to supply them.

Good job!

alaimacerc

munsterlegend wrote: »

Of course you have raised a necessary point that should be addressed. God Save the Queen should not be the anthem for a new inclusive agreed Northern Ireland now should it? A soccer club recently asked the Irish FA not to play it but were met with the usual silence. When Northern Ireland has an anthem that reflects its society perhaps then that can be played at GAA matches.

That's not a bad idea, but the trouble is it's likely to satisfy neither side. Look at all the carping there is about Ireland's Call from the rugger buggers.

alaimacerc

Trasna1 wrote: »

I would have always considered the GAA to be a culturally nationalist apolitical organisation, though in and around NI the line gets blurred between the culture and the political.

It's not apolitical, it's "non-party political", as the rulebook puts it. Big difference. Plenty of politics in the rest of that document itself, indeed!

I'd that a bad thing?

Who's saying Irish Nationalism is a bad thing!? We're just saying that Irish Nationalism is Irish Nationalism. Hence it's not a total surprise that even small-u unionism has an issue being asked to sign up to it, just to whack a ball around. Much as the likes of Francie would like to portray this in "don't want to have a Catholic about the place" terms.

Hardly. Does it mean that it prevents the apprentice boys of Derry setting up a team? No.
There are far more complex reasons around identity that means unionists generally don't play GAA, than a song and a flag.

Sure. Like the rest of the Gaa rulebook, for example. How could the Apprentice Boys in good faith sign up to a document that makes an irredentist claim over their little statelet, that they rather stridently see as British?

Taytoland

alaimacerc wrote: »

Trasna1 wrote: »

I would have always considered the GAA to be a culturally nationalist apolitical organisation, though in and around NI the line gets blurred between the culture and the political.

It's not apolitical, it's "non-party political", as the rulebook puts it.  Big difference.  Plenty of politics in the rest of that document itself, indeed!

I'd that a bad thing?

Who's saying Irish Nationalism is a bad thing!?  We're just saying that Irish Nationalism is Irish Nationalism.  Hence it's not a total surprise that even small-u unionism has an issue being asked to sign up to it, just to whack a ball around.  Much as the likes of Francie would like to portray this in "don't want to have a Catholic about the place" terms.

Hardly. Does it mean that it prevents the apprentice boys of Derry setting up a team? No.
There are far more complex reasons around identity that means unionists generally don't play GAA, than a song and a flag.

Sure.  Like the rest of the Gaa rulebook, for example. How could the Apprentice Boys in good faith sign up to a document that makes an irredentist claim over their little statelet, that they rather stridently see as British?

Everything you are saying is correct. What is controversial about it? The GAA is nationalist in nature. Again what is controversial about saying that?