America's Child Abduction Policy

wes

pgmcpq wrote: »

It seems that this policy has effectively at ending the modern concept of applying for asylum as was created after World War 2 in response the countries refusing refugees from the Holocaust (and yes I'm invoking Godwin's law early, knowingly and deliberately).

Godwin is totally ok with comparing these nutters to Nazi's:

https://twitter.com/sfmnemonic/status/896884949634232320

Captain Obvious

weldoninhio wrote: »

http://uk.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5?r=US&IR=T

Unless you're a time traveller from 2014, they haven't "started".

Yes they have. The 2014 photos are of unaccompanied minors. The policy the Trump administration has introduced is to prosecute every parent and separate every family.

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Want. No.
Expect. Yes.

Bull****.

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Could you give an example of one country that give you a trail if you are caught while illegally trying to entre there country ,

No, they generally don't prosecute them at all.

cfuserkildare wrote: »

You are obviously missing the point here,

The parents trying to enter the country Illegally are detained as they are deemed guilty of a criminal act, A child/minor cannot be charged with such an act due to age,
So tell me, Is the government of the USA at fault here especially when immigrants know the risk?,
Or the Immigrants who seem to think they have an Automatic right to enter the USA?

No, you are missing the point. The people who abuse the children are responsible for abusing the children. You can level some blame at the parents for putting them in danger of abuse but the responsibility for committing the abuse lies with the person committing it.

Rory28

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'm not equating murder to being an illegal immigrant.

I'm equating children being separated from their parents because they are in jail in the USA to children being separated from their parents because they are in jail in Ireland. The charge doesn't matter to the child.

The charge does matter. If your dad killed your ma you would rightly not want anything to do with him but if both your parents are arrested by trying their luck to get into america then you would probably want to stay with them while you all get deported.

Billy Mays

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'm not equating murder to being an illegal immigrant.

I'm equating children being separated from their parents because they are in jail in the USA to children being separated from their parents because they are in jail in Ireland. The charge doesn't matter to the child.

So when do you think the Irish government should start keeping the children of Irish prisoners in cages in a camp somewhere?

Pelvis

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Well luckily for them I am an amazing father who would never put them in danger so that won't be an issue.

And what if your child was taken from you after you tried to keep them out of danger? It's easy to be a great dad when you only do it on the weekend.

mcmoustache

weldoninhio wrote: »

Won't be long now before we have an Aylan Kurdi type propaganda picture to row the world in behind the insidious left against the nasty people who want to keep their borders safe.

You can keep borders safe without separating children from their parents.

Captain Obvious

SVI40 wrote: »

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/06/18/myth-vs-fact-dhs-zero-tolerance-policy

This may shed some light on it.

Bit of doublespeak there.


1)We don't separate all families.


2)We only take children from parents we are prosecuting.


3)We prosecute all adults who enter illegally.


So if 2 and 3 are correct then 1 is not. There may not be a policy to separate all families but the policies in 2 and 3 mean it happens anyway.

Victor

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Trump%20Hotel

weldoninhio

Rory28 wrote: »

The charge does matter. If your dad killed your ma you would rightly not want anything to do with him but if both your parents are arrested by trying their luck to get into america then you would probably want to stay with them while you all get deported.

If, if, if. If these kids parents didn't break the law by illegally entering another country they'd still be playing happy families.

RocketRaccoon

Pelvis wrote: »

And what if your child was taken from you after you tried to keep them out of danger? It's easy to be a great dad when you only do it on the weekend.

The weekend?

Keep them out of danger by trying to get them into another country illegally? Therefore putting them in danger. Something not computing here.

weldoninhio

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Bit of doublespeak there.


1)We don't separate all families.


2)We only take children from parents we are prosecuting.


3)We prosecute all adults who enter illegally.


So if 2 and 3 are correct then 1 is not. There may not be a policy to separate all families but the policies in 2 and 3 mean it happens anyway.

Not all families have people under 18 in them.

Banterbus28

weldoninhio wrote: »

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Bit of doublespeak there.


1)We don't separate all families.


2)We only take children from parents we are prosecuting.


3)We prosecute all adults who enter illegally.


So if 2 and 3 are correct then 1 is not. There may not be a policy to separate all families but the policies in 2 and 3 mean it happens anyway.

Not all families have people under 18 in them.

Well done, you understand that time is linear. 18+ you'll be detained as an adult.

But we are talking about children... statement is beyond pointless.

cfuserkildare

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Yes they have. The 2014 photos are of unaccompanied minors. The policy the Trump administration has introduced is to prosecute every parent and separate every family.





Bull****.






No, they generally don't prosecute them at all.






No, you are missing the point. The people who abuse the children are responsible for abusing the children. You can level some blame at the parents for putting them in danger of abuse but the responsibility for committing the abuse lies with the person committing it.

I have not missed the point at all,

The parents are to be charged with a Federal Crime,

But a child cannot be placed into a Federal Prison!!


Please check facts before Spouting opinions?

Rory28

weldoninhio wrote: »

If, if, if. If these kids parents didn't break the law by illegally entering another country they'd still be playing happy families.

Does illegally entering a country deserve such an extreme punishment? Is that fair and just? Come on man.

wexie

cfuserkildare wrote: »

I have not missed the point at all,

The parents are to be charged with a Federal Crime,

But a child cannot be placed into a Federal Prison!!


Please check facts before Spouting opinions?

But makeshift prisons are okay are they?

Banterbus28

wexie wrote: »

cfuserkildare wrote: »

I have not missed the point at all,

The parents are to be charged with a Federal Crime,

But a child cannot be placed into a Federal Prison!!


Please check facts before Spouting opinions?

But makeshift prisons are okay are they?

No the point he/she is making.

Is federal crime, so lock them up? But I thought you wanted rid of them?

cfuserkildare

wexie wrote: »

But makeshift prisons are okay are they?

Not giving my own opinion Wexie,

Just stating the facts.

weldoninhio

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Well done, you understand that time is linear. 18+ you'll be detained as an adult.

But we are talking about children... statement is beyond pointless.

Read point 1 again. Then have another look at it. Then come back and explain to me where it says the word child/children in it.

weldoninhio

Rory28 wrote: »

Does illegally entering a country deserve such an extreme punishment? Is that fair and just? Come on man.

Yes. They are lucky not to be shot crossing the border illegally, as happens elsewhere.

Captain Obvious

cfuserkildare wrote: »

I have not missed the point at all,

The parents are to be charged with a Federal Crime,

But a child cannot be placed into a Federal Prison!!


Please check facts before Spouting opinions?

Even if you want to make that argument, it does not excuse the inhumane treatment of the children beyond the mere trauma of being separated.

Rory28

weldoninhio wrote: »

Yes. They are lucky not to be shot crossing the border illegally, as happens elsewhere.

Disappointing to read dude. I had you pegged wrong.

Banterbus28

weldoninhio wrote: »

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Well done, you understand that time is linear. 18+ you'll be detained as an adult.

But we are talking about children... statement is beyond pointless.

Read point 1 again. Then have another look at it. Then come back and explain to me where it says the word child/children in it.

The point made was some families have members18+. Yes we know that...

Captain Obvious

Rory28 wrote: »

Disappointing to read dude. I had you pegged wrong.

Probably confusing him with someone else.

Memnoch

weldoninhio wrote: »

Rory28 wrote: »

The charge does matter. If your dad killed your ma you would rightly not want anything to do with him but if both your parents are arrested by trying their luck to get into america then you would probably want to stay with them while you all get deported.

If, if, if. If these kids parents didn't break the law by illegally entering another country they'd still be playing happy families.

Cruel and inhuman treatment is neither lawful nor justifiable anywhere. This is like saying if someone is caught stealing then their hands should be cut off. Oh, wait, that's what they do in Saudi Arabia. There are some basic principles that form the pillars of western democracy, such as proportional enforcement of the law. Inflicting punishment on innocent people (in this case children) is against every convention and understanding of human rights. Those response are those who make the CHOICE to inflict this punishment.
Firstly, if people are arriving or entering the border seeking asylum, the US has a duty under treaties and international law to assess these claims fairly before making a decision. Not to arbitrary arrest the adults and separate the children.
If they are not seeking asylum and are simply illegally crossing the border, this still does not justify inflicting horrific trauma on the children. They can just as easily house the families together in these centers till they are either deported back or if they need to be assessed as refugees then they can enter the appropriate pathway for that.
It is deeply disheartening to see just how brazenly people like you are willing to justify this kind of cruel, inhumane and utterly unnecessary treatment of children. 
It is reprehensible in every way and shame on those who support and defend it.

dr.fuzzenstein

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Aw you appear to be completely losing the run of yourself, I'd recommend taking a few deep breaths.

No counter argumet? Oh, I forgot, you don't have one so you resort to bad baiting.

wexie

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Not giving my own opinion Wexie,

Just stating the facts.

But do you appreciate how insane this policy is?

what it amounts to is 'we can't lock these children up....therefor we need to lock them up'?

By all means send them back home (with their parents) but the current situation is entirely inhumane.

And where does it go from here?

- parents are prosecuted for a federal crime (which, let's face it, most will be found guilty of)
- what happens now? Parents do time in a federal prison?
- who looks after the children in the mean time?
- at what costs?
- will they remain in the makeshift 'detention facilities'? (that's a fancy word for prison
- for how long?
- will they be educated?
- will they receive medical care?
and so on and so forth....

The whole thing simply doesn't make any sense....whatsoever....at any level

Rory28

Banterbus28 wrote: »

The US doesn't have a shoot to kill policy on their borders you pillock

Thanks for clearing that up.

RocketRaccoon

Banterbus28 wrote: »

The US doesn't have a shoot to kill policy on their borders you pillock

AS HAPPENS ELSEWHERE.

If you are going to resort to name calling of that poster then read their post correctly first.

RocketRaccoon

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

No counter argumet? Oh, I forgot, you don't have one so you resort to bad baiting.

A counter argument to what? You talking about my "white privilege" and how the only worry in my life is "oh no the rent won't be paid". How do you debate with such nonsense being posted by someone who doesn't know an iota about your life?

weldoninhio

Banterbus28 wrote: »

The US doesn't have a shoot to kill policy on their borders you pillock

I know, thats why I said it happens "elsewhere". As defined by "somewhere else; in or to some other place"