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America's Child Abduction Policy

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    #62
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    RocketRaccoon wrote: »
    Why the hell should America pay to improve conditions in Mexico? There are enough poor and homeless in their own country to worry about first.

    I'm not saying they should.

    Just saying I think that's the solution to having all of these people showing up at their borders. Same goes for the migrants trying to get to Europe.

    We can't stop them from coming, but perhaps we could try to stop them from wanting to come.

    (oh and by the way, if you looked into it you'll find the majority of these people aren't actually coming from Mexico)


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    #63
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    TheManTheMyth wrote: »
    I don't think you understand the "problem." Adults who enter illegally are detained in adult jail. It would be terrible to place the kids in adult jail so there is a different facility for children whose parents are in jail for breaking the law.

    Please share your solution that doesn't involve letting the people who broke the law into the country anyways.


    Don't detain the adults in jail.

    farmerwifelet wrote: »
    not mistaken - i think it was a Clinton policy originally.


    Even if that were true, why would that justify Trump's administration using it?


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    #64
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,987 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    RocketRaccoon wrote: »
    These people are not welcome in the USA. Why are they being afforded anything? Not welcome, please turn around and leave. These people know they aren't welcome, they know they will be illegal in the country, they know the repercussions for their actions.

    ask the american government, who instead of simply deporting people, are engaging in jingoistic nonsense and separation of children from their parents because reasons.
    RocketRaccoon wrote: »
    They are to blame for this, not any us politician.

    they aren't to blame. those who implemented this policy are to blame.
    RocketRaccoon wrote: »
    Would you rather the illegal children currently being held safely in America were let loose to roam the streets with no adults?

    no i'd rather them and their parents be deported if they do not have a legitimate claim of asylum. simple, and cheap.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #65
    Banterbus28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭Banterbus28


    This is why voting should be mandatory...


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    #66
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    farmerwifelet wrote: »
    not mistaken - i think it was a Clinton policy originally.

    It wasn’t.


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    #67
    hgfj
    Registered Users Posts: 252 ✭✭hgfj


    Trump supporting scumbags quoting the bible to further their aims no better than ISIS scum quoting the koran.


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    #68
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,987 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    topper75 wrote: »
    It is necessary because any fool like me can take a kid with me (doesn't have to be mine - frequent cases) and use that as my tool to stay in the U.S.

    simple deportation would solve that then wouldn't it. ergo this policy isn't necessary.
    topper75 wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure it is the Latino illegals bringing the kids in.

    Have a think about it - if I dumped a baby on your doorstep tonight - did you abduct that baby?

    Trump and the U.S. staff who are tasked with a difficult thankless task abducted precisely nobody.

    did they have permission from the parents to take the children? nope. trying to compare this to someone leaving a baby on someone's doorstep is absolutely laughable, as this policy is the deliberate taking of children from their parents.
    topper75 wrote: »
    Why do so few people on here get this?

    Are media optics of crying children that powerful? Are people that irrational?

    Is a Latino heritage or brown skin a charter to go wherever and whenever you like and anybody who puts the arm out to check you is some kind of callous ogre?

    If your average boards poster was on this detail, the country would go down in months.

    nope we simply live in the real world where there are plenty of ways to control borders and deal with illegal immigration without removing children from their parents and locking them in cages cause jingoism.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #69
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    There's no excusing or explaining this.

    It's WRONG. It's WRONG on every level.

    You do not forcibly separate children from their parents and use that as a political deterrent.

    Weaving this into a discussion about immigration policy is an entirely obnoxious attempt at equivocation and prevarication. It's smoke and mirror nonsense.

    Even in a scenario where there were tough immigration laws, no civilised country or upstanding human would do this. You wouldn't do this to a kitten never mind a baby!

    I'd like to say the US was better than this and I know many Americans are, but they, as a country, keep electing right wing nutcases and supporting policies like this and defending the ideology behind them, usually with a load of whataboutery, so I don't know anymore.

    It's increasingly starting to look like a nation that's being driven by a bunch of deluded hypocrites, who like to wrap themselves in a flag and talk the talk of freedom and human rights, but then when it comes to something like this, the same country just adopts the modus operandi of fascists.

    They did exactly the same in the not so distant past, proclaiming they were the 'land of the free' while allowing the operation something very similar to South African apartheid, well into the 1960s.

    I'm fed up with all the hand wringing online. It's a country where many people barely bother to engage or even to even vote. They are allowing pot stirrers like Fox News, Brietbart and a bunch of gun nuts, conspiracy theorists, jingoists and religious maniacs to drive the political agenda and they keep allowing this and plenty of other horrors to be normalised.

    The US needs to remove its head from its rear end and start looking at what's happening to it.

    I also see direct parallels to the "see no evil, hear no evil" society that destroyed this country in the middle 20th century by ignoring institutional abuses that were going on here too, so I am not just being anti-American. I think the US is allowing itself to be sucked into a vortex of toxic hate-driven politics and if it doesn't realise that, it will do itself huge social and economic damage.

    I have a feeling we will be looking back at this era in 20 or 30 years time as a very strange period of modern history.


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    #70
    Banterbus28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭Banterbus28


    hgfj wrote: »
    Trump supporting scumbags quoting the bible to further their aims no better than ISIS scum quoting the koran.

    Qu'ran.

    Please most western laws have a Judeo-Chrostian basis as they are based on Judeo-Christian morals.

    Yes they are scumbags but quoting a book doesn't make the book bad.


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    #71
    Here we go
    Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭Here we go


    one armed dwarf wrote: »
    The difference, I think (and I may be wrong), is the 'zero tolerance' of Sessions & Trump's admin and the volume of kids being detained versus how it went under Obama.

    It could create a huge numbers problem where thousands of kids die because the resources can't be afforded to keep them.

    It makes it very hard to believe the media’s outrage if they and everyone else knew his was going on before hand but was ok with it but now they can use it to attack trump it’s wrong, on one hand if people are breaking the law the should be deported or imprisioned depending on the law but the kids should go into the same services as other amarican kids do when there parents go to jail now if there’s a financial issue with the pure numbers I don’t know


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    #72
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,987 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    TheManTheMyth wrote: »
    I don't think you understand the "problem." Adults who enter illegally are detained in adult jail. It would be terrible to place the kids in adult jail so there is a different facility for children whose parents are in jail for breaking the law.

    lets be honest, this is very likely not about holding children in separate facilities because an adult facility would be the wrong place for them. this is about simply jingoism from what i can see, and a deliberate attempt to degrade and mentally torture.
    TheManTheMyth wrote: »
    Please share your solution that doesn't involve letting the people who broke the law into the country anyways.

    deportation.
    TheManTheMyth wrote: »
    Statistics vary, but around 75% to 90% (depending where you look) of those who are set for deportation never show up for their hearing. Trump campaigned to stop the practice of 'catch and release' for this reason.

    fine, holding people until a hearing isn't really the issue. how they go about it most certainly is

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #73
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    wexie wrote: »
    I'm not saying they should.

    Just saying I think that's the solution to having all of these people showing up at their borders. Same goes for the migrants trying to get to Europe.

    We can't stop them from coming, but perhaps we could try to stop them from wanting to come.

    It's actually been tried on a number of occasions. The US has delivered financial aid to many S.American states, and also provided both educational support along with training for their police/military. Usually, this is seen as being some way to control the governments of the target country, and honestly, it's probably true. However, S.American countries tend to want different types of governments than western societies. The US has poured quite a bit of aid into Mexico both on a state and private level but the country has progressively gotten worse. How do you deal with the inherent levels of corruption?

    The same issue arises in Africa where European Aid has been sent for decades, and they face the same issues. Aid is mismanaged or taken by corrupt officials. Medicine is sold off to paramilitaries. Education has been given, but most people are more interested in their traditional systems than introducing the western methods.

    While I agree with you, that it makes sense to improve their countries... how do we do so without any real control over what happens? Also... we're not exactly doing wonderfully in our own countries either... better than them, but both economic and social problems are on the rise across most western countries.


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    #74
    Mutant z
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Mutant z


    They shouldnt be illegally entering the country in the first place borders exist for a reason you cant just tear them down as you please.


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    #75
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Here we go wrote: »
    It makes it very hard to believe the media’s outrage if they and everyone else knew his was going on before hand but was ok with it but now they can use it to attack trump it’s wrong, on one hand if people are breaking the law the should be deported or imprisioned depending on the law but the kids should go into the same services as other amarican kids do when there parents go to jail now if there’s a financial issue with the pure numbers I don’t know


    The kids from the Obama era photos were unaccompanied minors who crossed the border with no parent. The kids from the Trump era photos have been forcibly removed from their parents by the SS, sorry I mean I.C.E.


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    #76
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Mutant z wrote: »
    They shouldnt be illegally entering the country in the first place borders exist for a reason you cant just tear them down as you please.


    Yes I'm sure the 10 year old with down syndrome is very sorry for breaching the border. But just to make sure perhaps she should be isolated a bit more. To teach her a lesson like. :rolleyes:


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    #77
    Here we go
    Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭Here we go


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    The kids from the Obama era photos were unaccompanied minors who crossed the border with no parent. The kids from the Trump era photos have been forcibly removed from their parents by the SS, sorry I mean I.C.E.

    So was this not the law before trump that illegal immigrants who where sent to jail A, had kids sent with them B, where released with no prosecution D, sent to jail and kids out in services ? Honest qustion just so I know the law in place before hand


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    #78
    RocketRaccoon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    The kids from the Obama era photos were unaccompanied minors who crossed the border with no parent. The kids from the Trump era photos have been forcibly removed from their parents by the SS, sorry I mean I.C.E.

    What should be done with these children? Put in adult jail with their parents? Left to roam the states alone? Sent back to their own country alone?


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    #79
    RocketRaccoon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    Yes I'm sure the 10 year old with down syndrome is very sorry for breaching the border. But just to make sure perhaps she should be isolated a bit more. To teach her a lesson like. :rolleyes:

    Did her parents know the law of the land?


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    #80
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Adults caught crossing since April have been automatically classified as criminals which automatically results in being seperated from children.
    It did happen in the past in some cases but now it’s more or less a default position.


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    #81
    Mutant z
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Mutant z


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    Yes I'm sure the 10 year old with down syndrome is very sorry for breaching the border. But just to make sure perhaps she should be isolated a bit more. To teach her a lesson like. :rolleyes:

    Its the adults who are to blame for putting the children in that situation of course they have no problem exploiting them for propoganda purposes in an out of context photo for the world to see which works to a tee.


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    #82
    RocketRaccoon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    Ipso wrote: »
    Adults caught crossing since April have been automatically classified as criminals which automatically results in being seperated from children.
    It did happen in the past in some cases but now it’s more or less a default position.

    And it is correct.


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    #83
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    RocketRaccoon wrote: »
    What should be done with these children? Put in adult jail with their parents? Left to roam the states alone? Sent back to their own country alone?


    If you must intern whole families then interning them together seems to more humane option doesn't it?


    RocketRaccoon wrote: »
    Did her parents know the law of the land?


    Unlikely they knew their child would be inhumanely treated by the US authorities.

    Mutant z wrote: »
    Its the adults who are to blame for putting the children in that situation of course they have no problem exploiting them for propoganda purposes in an out of context photo for the world to see which works to a tee.


    You can blame the adults for exposing their child to danger but the blame for how the children are treated is squarely on the people treating them that way. There is no excuse for child abuse.


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    #84
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    What the press don't get is that they have zero capital with most of the American public, it's actually the opposite, the more the press cry wolf, the more likely the public will row in behind Trump, especially on immigration.


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    #85
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    It's simply wrong, it is nothing but a dick move.
    Only a complete wankbag or amoeba brain could support this or think it's a good idea.
    There s no discussion on this, it is simply wrong on every level, but sadly the world is filled more and more with sadistic pieces of sh*t who advocate a more and more intolerant, uncaring and right wing society. And they will scream the loudest once this world suddenly turns on them.
    Selfish arseholes.
    I ashamed at the human race right now, when did we become asshole pieces of sh*t?


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    #86
    RocketRaccoon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    It's simply wrong, it is nothing but a dick move.
    Only a complete wankbag or amoeba brain could support this or think it's a good idea.
    There s no discussion on this, it is simply wrong on every level, but sadly the world is filled more and more with sadistic pieces of sh*t who advocate a more and more intolerant, uncaring and right wing. And they will scream the loudest once this world suddenly turns on them.
    Selfish arseholes.
    I ashamed at the human race right now, when did we become asshole pieces of sh*t?

    I haven't been involved in any illegal activity in my 35 years on this planet. None of the immigrants involved in this can say the same, why are you ashamed at me and not them?


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    #87
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭Nermal


    wexie wrote: »
    Just saying I think that's the solution to having all of these people showing up at their borders. Same goes for the migrants trying to get to Europe.

    We can't stop them from coming

    Don't let them in, and they will stop coming. Apply the Australian policy.

    It's not the responsibility of the US to enrich Mexico to the point where no-one wants to leave, in the same way as it's not up to the EU to enrich Africa.


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    #88
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    RocketRaccoon wrote: »
    I haven't been involved in any illegal activity in my 35 years on this planet. None of the immigrants involved in this can say the same, why are you ashamed at me and not them?

    An immigrant should never be a criminal.
    Asshole thinking.


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    #89
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Nermal wrote: »
    Don't let them in, and they will stop coming. Apply the Australian policy.

    It's not the responsibility of the US to enrich Mexico to the point where no-one wants to leave, in the same way as it's not up to the EU to enrich Africa.

    Bit easier when you're an island that's pretty isolated.


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    #90
    RocketRaccoon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    An immigrant should never be a criminal.
    Asshole thinking.

    Illegal immigrant.
    Using kids to try and get sympathy makes them even worse in my eyes.


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    #91
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    RocketRaccoon wrote: »
    Illegal immigrant.
    Using kids to try and get sympathy makes them even worse in my eyes.

    Taking kids from their family is fcuking wrong.
    How anyone with an IQ of above 50 cannot get this is beyond me


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