Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

thesaturdayman

Motivator wrote: »

I’d imagine some of the panel don’t want Paul Flynn because he won’t take any ****e and won’t be afraid to get stuck in to fellas on the panel. He doesn’t strike me as the type of man to baby lads and maybe lads are worried about what’s coming down the line if he’s involved in some capacity. The excuse being used by some people is that he was “overly critical” of Derek McGrath and that’s why the panel (or some members of the panel) don’t want him. An excuse so childish it isn’t even funny. Bottom line is, if Flynn gets involved in some capacity and things are shaken up then he’ll be involved in any changes that will be forthcoming- and rightly so - there isn’t too many more knowledgeable hurling men in the county and if members of the current panel can’t respect him as he is now then they should at least respect him for what he did for Waterford when he was playing.

Your a bit off the mark there....

Motivator

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Your a bit off the mark there....

Enlighten me then if you would be so kind. As you’re a cheerleader for Derek and most of the city based panel members this should be good.

thesaturdayman

Motivator wrote: »

Enlighten me then if you would be so kind.

There was a fairly public spat between him & some current players not long ago on social media.

So to say players don’t respect him wouldn’t be right. But I’d say a lot of damage was done on both sides then.

No one with any % of a brain would doubt flynners contribution to Waterford & not have respect for him.

Motivator

thesaturdayman wrote: »

There was a fairly public spat between him & some current players not long ago on social media.

So to say players don’t respect him wouldn’t be right. But I’d say a lot of damage was done on both sides then.

No one with any % of a brain would doubt flynners contribution to Waterford & not have respect for him.

Does it not come down to respect then? A spat on social media is as childish as it gets. Flynn is pretty outspoken but he has always stood up for players in the past (publicly anyway). I didn’t see anything wrong with the comments he made - Mullane, Ken McGrath and Tony Browne often publicly stated their disapproval of the tactics employed under the previous management team. I would bet there’s a healthy level of respect amongst the panel for those three players and that’s the way it should be. But because Flynn dared to criticise Derek he’s being basically shunned by the players. It’s a comical situation for everyone but Waterford.

thesaturdayman

Motivator wrote: »

Does it not come down to respect then? A spat on social media is as childish as it gets. Flynn is pretty outspoken but he has always stood up for players in the past (publicly anyway). I didn’t see anything wrong with the comments he made - Mullane, Ken McGrath and Tony Browne often publicly stated their disapproval of the tactics employed under the previous management team. I would bet there’s a healthy level of respect amongst the panel for those three players and that’s the way it should be. But because Flynn dared to criticise Derek he’s being basically shunned by the players. It’s a comical situation for everyone but Waterford.

As the saying goes “the greatest shower of knockers are in Waterford”

How is it all our ex players & invariably seem to be the most outspoken & critical.

U don’t see any other hurling county & not least any successful successful counties players carry on like that.

Calling someone a “bluffer” is hardly constructive criticism to be fair.

Suppose it shows the level of respect players had for Derek etc. hopefully the new management team will get the same respect.

cul beag

Motivator wrote: »

I’d imagine some of the panel don’t want Paul Flynn because he won’t take any ****e and won’t be afraid to get stuck in to fellas on the panel. He doesn’t strike me as the type of man to baby lads and maybe lads are worried about what’s coming down the line if he’s involved in some capacity. The excuse being used by some people is that he was “overly critical” of Derek McGrath and that’s why the panel (or some members of the panel) don’t want him. An excuse so childish it isn’t even funny. Bottom line is, if Flynn gets involved in some capacity and things are shaken up then he’ll be involved in any changes that will be forthcoming- and rightly so - there isn’t too many more knowledgeable hurling men in the county and if members of the current panel can’t respect him as he is now then they should at least respect him for what he did for Waterford when he was playing.

Well said. It’s a poison chalice for whom ever takes it on in my opinion. The fact that the players are dictating procedures is a sad state of affairs.

mountgomery burns

thesaturdayman wrote: »

As the saying goes “the greatest shower of knockers are in Waterford”

How is it all our ex players & invariably seem to be the most outspoken & critical.

U don’t see any other hurling county & not least any successful successful counties players carry on like that.

Calling someone a “bluffer” is hardly constructive criticism to be fair.

Suppose it shows the level of respect players had for Derek etc. hopefully the new management team will get the same respect.

Loads of ex Galway players cut the backs off them a few years ago. Tipp spoke a lot about the motivation in 2016 having been written off by their own. Kilkenny haven't had to yet but the day will come.

I don't know about Flynn, but anything else I heard all that seemed to be criticized was the style of play which was criticized nationwide. Don't think the players were excessive in their criticism from what I had seen, the criticism on here is a different story though.

DeiseDawg

The blue blaa wrote: »

Pauric Fanning
Tony Brown
James Murray

If Tommy Dunne is not part of that backroom team then we can forget about going anywhere bar backwards.

Whoever is appointed, let's give them a chance, and don't let petty playground bitterness keep us divided and away from the top table.

Motivator

thesaturdayman wrote: »

As the saying goes “the greatest shower of knockers are in Waterford”

How is it all our ex players & invariably seem to be the most outspoken & critical.

U don’t see any other hurling county & not least any successful successful counties players carry on like that.

Calling someone a “bluffer” is hardly constructive criticism to be fair.

Suppose it shows the level of respect players had for Derek etc. hopefully the new management team will get the same respect.

The level of respect that some of the players had for Derek was admirable but one has to wonder how much of it was due to the massaging of individual egos? Don’t forget that they had to row in behind Derek 100% considering what was done to the previous manager. They wanted Derek and they got him and they had to stick with him.

Flynn called it as he saw it and he wasn’t alone. McGrath’s tenure was fraught with nationwide criticism from day one but according to you how dare anyone with a public profile speak out against one of their own. Give me a break.

JesusRef

For someone in with a shout of being involved Flynn should have kept his head down for a few weeks, why stay quiet on twitter for McGrath tenure only to pipe up when he was in with a shout himself.

He deleted the tweet after himself so he obviously saw something wrong with it.

Shame really cause I think Flynn is a great coach

Deisegodeo

Interesting round of games in Walsh Park yesterday, surprising that the tightest game turned out to be Ballyguner v Roanmore, I'd have expected the Gunners to win comfortably but that most certainly wasnt the case. In fairness, Roanmore were very impressive, they looked a well trained side and gave absolutely everything they had, just lacked the bit of quality that the top teams have. Ballygunner clearly had goals on their mind early on, must have had 4 or 5 attempts on goal in the first few minutes but they didnt convert them and Roanmore seemed to grow in belief after that.

Aided by the strong wind Roanmore had a good first half and were well in the game at half time, with Ballygunner eventually getting the scores in the second half to seal the win, though they did endure an anxious last minute after gifting Roanmore a goal to leave just a puck of the ball between the sides at the end. A couple of things to note, Billy Nolan was listed to start in goal but didnt line out, dont know why. Also, as I'm sure Ballygunner have eyes on county and provincial prizes, it was noticeable that they missed David O'Sullivan and Shane Walsh, you could argue they are weaker this year than last, no new player making an impact on yesterday's evidence.

In the first game, Mount Sion used the wind in the first half to stay with DLS for the opening half, a good achievement given the absence of quality in the Sion line up these days. The flood gates fairly opened in the second half with DLS scoring about 4-9 and ran out easy winners. Interesting to see Jake Dillon centre back, played well there too. DLS inside forwards looked lively too, few nice goals scored. Aussie Gleeson looked very frustrated, scored 3 stunning sideline cuts in a row in space of 10 minutes in first half, but was largely out of the game. Looked dangerous when moved to full forward in second half but the game was over at that stage. Just not the quality around him at all, getting to a quarter final was probably a good achievement for this Sion side, not that they'd view it that way of course. No sign of Jack Fagan in DLS panel, not sure if he is injured or unavailable or what.

Passage were very impressive too, fairly took Dungarvan apart in the last game of the day. They are a well organised and committed side with quality hurlers too, they will fancy taking on neighbours Ballygunner in the semi final going on the evidence of yesterday's games. Dungarvan were very poor, I expected them to be much better. Patrick Curran came on in the 20th minute.

Some good hurling played yesterday, pity we couldnt get the Waterford manager sorted and had him there assessing whats available to him.

JesusRef

premiertipp wrote: »

Waterford beaten by Tipp in U16 semi in Wexford...no independent umpires/linesmen..terrible refereeing..Waterford had ball over the line TWICE during goalmouth scramble near the end..ball cleared and no score given.
Kildare had a player flattened by Tipp no.2...referee sent umpire (Kildare) to line and gave a yellow to goalkeeper...bizarre stuff! Then in final SAME REFEREE gave everything to Wexford..Tipp completely robbed. You couldn't make it up!

Ya those blitzes mean nothing, it's totally different to real games, multiple short games over a weekend...

benji79

JesusRef wrote: »

For someone in with a shout of being involved Flynn should have kept his head down for a few weeks, why stay quiet on twitter for McGrath tenure only to pipe up when he was in with a shout himself.

He deleted the tweet after himself so he obviously saw something wrong with it.

Shame really cause I think Flynn is a great coach

What was in the tweet? Was it overly personal or what

PTH2009

My info about there being an announcement tonight seemed to be wrong but I'm thinking this management team will get it

greenspurs

JesusRef wrote: »

Ya those blitzes mean nothing, it's totally different to real games, multiple short games over a weekend...

It means a lot to the players involved !

JesusRef

greenspurs wrote: »

It means a lot to the players involved !

Of course, but in terms in future results at Minor and senior it doesn't, Cork have been championing success at these tournaments since 2011, of which they have had a lot (winning all seven in 2015), but as I said tournaments like that as as relevant to real hurling as 7's tournaments is to club hurling, It's a different sport

(Cork have won 4 tony forristal and all 5 sonny Walsh's in the last 5 years, in the time they have won 1 munster minor, Tipp have won 3 munster and 1 AI Minor and Galway 3 AI minor)

Also some of these players may not be playing Hurling soon, A very prominent player from this weekend is attracting a lot of interest from England and has played very little with his club

blueflame

On the club front, interesting results - Mt Sion are very young and inexperienced and despite best efforts of Aussie and Fish O'Neill - DLS just had too much for them - though Moran really stepped it up in the second half for DLS.

Fair play to Roanmore, really put it up to Ballygunner - things looking up for Roanmore for the future, and this display will encourage others faced with the task of taking on the Gunners.

Great performance from Passage but one has to wonder where Dungarvan are headed despite all the young talent at their disposal.

Abbeyside for me could be dark horses this year, big physical side, but again i think their "dual" activities could catch up with them. Two very interesting semi finals ahead,.

On Forristal and other Under Age Tournaments - most important thing here is to be competitive and that is what Waterford have been and were again the weekend. They are short matches and a soft goal can change a game completely. But these tournament are very important to the players and mentors - it gives them an experience of inter-county and an appetite for what lays ahead if they want to go on an represent their county and higher levels. These tournament fuel ambition and interest.

On the new Manager position - I think there is the serious potential for a new comedy series out of it - Fr Ted is seriously in danger. From what i can gather, where this is true or not, but came from reliable sources, our first two targets who were interviewed turned us down mainly because of a lack of ambition.

Over the weekend I heard two sets of rumours, the team mentioned on here and the other being that some of the players were trying to get Derek to change his mind. Talk about a "fire sale" .

As regards comments of ex-players - most recent management were often quick to criticise our past styles for being too open in their hurling and lacking structure, so what goes around comes around.

Add this to the fiasco over our county grounds and the omens are bleak.

I fear greatly for the future of hurling in this county because there is no point in putting huge effort in to getting under age structures right and then delivering them to system that is malfunctioning and being run as a bargain basement operation - Something serious has to happen fast or we are going to hit a downward trend very quickly and you will then see the interest and money dry up and this will only speed up the downward cycle. I seriously hope i am wrong and being over pessimistic but the signs are not good.

blue note

I think one thing is sure anyway whoever the new appointment is - they'll have the full support of everyone here from the outset. I'm sure the boards community will hold off on judging them until a reasonable time has passed and will then do so taking all factors into consideration.

Furthermore, if we see the change that many here were calling for and it proves to be a step back, I applaud those in advance for holding their hands up and admitting they were wrong about Derek and his tactics.

greenspurs

JesusRef wrote: »

Of course, but in terms in future results at Minor and senior it doesn't, Cork have been championing success at these tournaments since 2011, of which they have had a lot (winning all seven in 2015), but as I said tournaments like that as as relevant to real hurling as 7's tournaments is to club hurling, It's a different sport

(Cork have won 4 tony forristal and all 5 sonny Walsh's in the last 5 years, in the time they have won 1 munster minor, Tipp have won 3 munster and 1 AI Minor and Galway 3 AI minor)

Also some of these players may not be playing Hurling soon, A very prominent player from this weekend is attracting a lot of interest from England and has played very little with his club

I don't think U14 and U15 players are thinking about winning senior all Irelands when playing those Tournaments!
Relax a bit, they are children playing games. Win at all costs is what drives a lot of kids out of sport due to "Pushy Parents" and Coaches/Mentors that think their U14 side need to be All Ireland winners.
Let them enjoy the (relative)lack of pressure whilst they are learning the game before burdening them with the pressure caused by other age grades failures !!

Gardner

blueflame wrote: »

On the club front, interesting results - Mt Sion are very young and inexperienced and despite best efforts of Aussie and Fish O'Neill - DLS just had too much for them - though Moran really stepped it up in the second half for DLS.

Fair play to Roanmore, really put it up to Ballygunner - things looking up for Roanmore for the future, and this display will encourage others faced with the task of taking on the Gunners.

Great performance from Passage but one has to wonder where Dungarvan are headed despite all the young talent at their disposal.

Abbeyside for me could be dark horses this year, big physical side, but again i think their "dual" activities could catch up with them. Two very interesting semi finals ahead,.

On Forristal and other Under Age Tournaments - most important thing here is to be competitive and that is what Waterford have been and were again the weekend. They are short matches and a soft goal can change a game completely. But these tournament are very important to the players and mentors - it gives them an experience of inter-county and an appetite for what lays ahead if they want to go on an represent their county and higher levels. These tournament fuel ambition and interest.

On the new Manager position - I think there is the serious potential for a new comedy series out of it - Fr Ted is seriously in danger. From what i can gather, where this is true or not, but came from reliable sources, our first two targets who were interviewed turned us down mainly because of a lack of ambition.

Over the weekend I heard two sets of rumours, the team mentioned on here and the other being that some of the players were trying to get Derek to change his mind. Talk about a "fire sale" .

As regards comments of ex-players - most recent management were often quick to criticise our past styles for being too open in their hurling and lacking structure, so what goes around comes around.

Add this to the fiasco over our county grounds and the omens are bleak.

I fear greatly for the future of hurling in this county because there is no point in putting huge effort in to getting under age structures right and then delivering them to system that is malfunctioning and being run as a bargain basement operation - Something serious has to happen fast or we are going to hit a downward trend very quickly and you will then see the interest and money dry up and this will only speed up the downward cycle. I seriously hope i am wrong and being over pessimistic but the signs are not good.

fact! Brick, Moran, Mahoney Connors were the 4 i was told.

got to love this fiasco! better than reading Dear Deirdre in the Mirror

blueflame

blue note wrote: »

I think one thing is sure anyway whoever the new appointment is - they'll have the full support of everyone here from the outset. I'm sure the boards community will hold off on judging them until a reasonable time has passed and will then do so taking all factors into consideration.

Furthermore, if we see the change that many here were calling for and it proves to be a step back, I applaud those in advance for holding their hands up and admitting they were wrong about Derek and his tactics.

Not sure if this was posted in reply to my comment but i can assure you and everyone else, that whoever comes in will be given my full support as every management team has.

Re: Derek's management tenure, he gave it his best shot but after 5 years, in my view it is time to freshen things up - and where a person has decided by their own volition to step down he should be left.

There is not guarantee change will bring success but likewise to keep doing the same thing and expect a different result is unlikely to work also.

blue note

blueflame wrote: »

Not sure if this was posted in reply to my comment but i can assure you and everyone else, that whoever comes in will be given my full support as every management team has.

Re: Derek's management tenure, he gave it his best shot but after 5 years, in my view it is time to freshen things up - and where a person has decided by their own volition to step down he should be left.

There is not guarantee change will bring success but likewise to keep doing the same thing and expect a different result is unlikely to work also.

It's a reply to the thread in general - no-one specific. I used to read all the posts here, but now I only scan through occasionally. It just seems to be a bunch of Eamon Dunphy's here who will never be satisfied with anything. If Cú Chulainn was announced as our next manager people would be objecting that's he's been too long out of the game to be any good.

upthedeise16

blue note wrote: »

It's a reply to the thread in general - no-one specific. I used to read all the posts here, but now I only scan through occasionally. It just seems to be a bunch of Eamon Dunphy's here who will never be satisfied with anything. If Cú Chulainn was announced as our next manager people would be objecting that's he's been too long out of the game to be any good.

Cú Chulainn isn’t up to it, what has he won???

38gitS

Worryingly, there's something rotten with this whole management situation.
All the signs so far are shining a light on the players influence on the decision.
We may as well face it, the players are choosing the next manager.

Mastermcgrath

38gitS wrote: »

Worryingly, there's something rotten with this whole management situation.
All the signs so far are shining a light on the players influence on the decision.
We may as well face it, the players are choosing the next manager.

Maybe theyre taking a stand to try and rescue something because they realise the county board is a f#####g joke shop. Christ above if that management team that’s mentioned here is true then I’d gladly take McGrath back in the morning. Heaven and earth should’ve been moved to get their man in be it Mattie Kenny or Pat Ryan or whoever. The fact that these guys met with co board officials yet turned down the chance to manage this group of talented players is very concerning. I would have thought people would jump at the chance. Anyway it’s all rumours but that’s how Iv ee it if it’s true

SW1985

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

Maybe theyre taking a stand to try and rescue something because they realise the county board is a f#####g joke shop. Christ above if that management team that’s mentioned here is true then I’d gladly take McGrath back in the morning. Heaven and earth should’ve been moved to get their man in be it Mattie Kenny or Pat Ryan or whoever. The fact that these guys met with co board officials yet turned down the chance to manage this group of talented players is very concerning. I would have thought people would jump at the chance. Anyway it’s all rumours but that’s how Iv ee it if it’s true

From what I'm hearing it's hard to blame Kenny or Ryan turning it down. The county board can't expect to find another Derek from outside the county who's going to give up his life for little reward.

I have no issue with the players trying to have a say either. They are a hugely committed bunch of lads. They're the ones doing all the work. I think it's only right that they should have a manager they believe in.

PTH2009

SW1985 wrote: »

From what I'm hearing it's hard to blame Kenny or Ryan turning it down. The county board can't expect to find another Derek from outside the county who's going to give up his life for little reward.

I have no issue with the players trying to have a say either. They are a hugely committed bunch of lads. They're the ones doing all the work. I think it's only right that they should have a manager they believe in.

Very true the wrong man come in and talented players will walk away. We dont want to end up declining massively like Offaly cause of the **** CB we have.

A player strike is not impossible if things don't work out

thesaturdayman

I won’t have a bad word said about the county board - the chairman, the secretary or treasurer.

The have a track record of delivering for Waterford Gaa for last 20 years.

Whatever happens & who ever says what, none of this is their fault.

liogairmhordain

Deisegodeo wrote: »

A couple of things to note, Billy Nolan was listed to start in goal but didnt line out, dont know why.

He got a slap early in the game against Fourmilewater - he tried to play on but had to be taken off. The sub goalie (Chester??) played really well in that game and I presume he went in again on Sunday.

Road-Hog

Re new management team - do we need to go down the limerick route ie get the backing of a waterford business person group who is passionate about the sport and then appoint and support from within county. Doubt if many heard too much about John kiely before this year......and there is no doubt limerick’s panel is definitely not that far ahead of us (if at all) with respect to talent.....its primarily down to ‘mental preparation’/self belief etc. how many of w’ford Panel have minor and u21 titles...? Is this current crop of players going to go down same road as the 1998 to 2008 group....?