Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

Deiseen

Pogue eile wrote: »

hardybuck wrote: »

I'm fairly pragmatic, and he may indeed be the best that's available.

However, there was an awful lot of talk about him being a lucky general, getting one of the best groups of players that ever came available.

Now I'm sure he had a role in those lads development, but I'm sure he must have been hearing those stories about himself. He seems to have done very little to have dispelled that talk, and if anything he's probably fuelled it further.

He managed them from Tony Forrestal up so a little more than a role, it should be used as a massive plus in his favour as opposed to a stick to beat him with.

Well said!

cul beag

Deisegodeo wrote: »

Do the players have a problem with Sean power or is with Flynn being part of the management team ?

Bit of both. The problem being they know there’s a big shake up on the cards so it’s obviously not being welcomed!

38gitS

I’ll say one thing for Sean Power, he believes in himself and his methods, if he’s still interested? If it were me, watching the committee interviewing all and sundry, after doing all those years with the group, I’d have told them to stick the job up their a***s!

Deisedozzer

At this stage we are a national laughing stock with our fruitless hunt for a manager. It seems at least two managers have now turned down the position, apparently partly because of player influence. I'm all for the players having a say in seeking to get the best candidate in but not in them basically holding potential candidates to ransom. It seems we are now going to end up with someone who was at a minimum third choice for the job and it doesn't bode well for the future. We are in real danger of seeing a potentially fantastic panel fall apart. I think it's getting close to a point where the County Board should inform supporters of what has actually gone on.

cul beag

Deisedozzer wrote: »

At this stage we are a national laughing stock with our fruitless hunt for a manager. It seems at least two managers have now turned down the position, apparently partly because of player influence. I'm all for the players having a say in seeking to get the best candidate in but not in them basically holding potential candidates to ransom. It seems we are now going to end up with someone who was at a minimum third choice for the job and it doesn't bode well for the future. We are in real danger of seeing a potentially fantastic panel fall apart. I think it's getting close to a point where the County Board should inform supporters of what has actually gone on.

Yes the County Board are at fault here but a lot of this is down to the previous regime and not shaking the thing up for the past 4 yrs. We are now being held to ransom by certain players because of the strong influence they have gained in this time and now we’re paying the price of it. The dogs on the street know the thing needs to be cleaned up and the players in question are no different.

PTH2009

How do we knw it's not the CB that are making these candidates turn away ???

I imagine they are hard to work with and funds are prob not there. We dont knw what's going on behind closed doors

Whoever gets the job them and the whole 2018 squad (those who attend to commit) should go into a room and settle there differences and go through ideas/structures etc and really go for it

Its feels like an age since we last played and it's still a few months to go before we play a competitive game in Jan 2019.

Mastermcgrath

convenient that its the same posters who cut the back off Derek McGrath here for 4 years are now doing whatever they can to make a mockery of Sean Power aswell, and he hasn't even been offered the job. These people have shown that no matter who is appointed there will be an agenda so their credibility of opinion has worn out.

We are hearing that Pat Ryan and Mattie Kenny both met with the county board, but both withdrew their interest, if there ever was any in the first place. I don't mind that the co board has taken their time about it and I have no problem with them interviewing outside people  to try and find the right man. But if it hasn't happened, I hope common sense prevails now and Power is given the job. He has done more than anyone within the county to deserve it and I know the players hold him in the highest regard.

As for the rumour that the players don't want Paul Flynn involved because of a twitter spat, maybe so. But from I can see Flynn does act like a proper prat on twitter. Sean Power on the other hand conducts himself with a lot of class anytime he is interviewed. Lets just get him appointed first and then work on assembling a quality backroom team

mountgomery burns

hardybuck wrote: »

John Kiely, in addition to winning an U21 with Limerick, was also a selector with John Allen's senior setup, and managed the county intermediate team.

He's also captained the county senior footballers and been part of a the panel that played in the 1994 and 1996 All Ireland finals, so saw the game at senior level from both ends before taking on the top job.

In fairness, Intermediate hurling at inter county level was an absolute piss take and nowhere near the highest level.

Deise boii

In every county the players come and meet a potential new manager it is completely understandable. From what I'm hearing the players were very much in favour of Pat Ryan only for something expectantly to come along and change and best of luck to him.

Regarding Mattie Kenny the talk is he came down with everything in place and agreed to take over only for at the final meeting with the county board the goal posts being moved and as a result he turned it down.

It seems like a disastrous showing from our county board who I would think have questions to answer although having attended the odd meeting I don't think any delegates will really ask these questions unfortunately. From what rumours are going around the county board have really shown themselves up as completely incapable of the job. There are plenty of examples of this this year alone from the game in limerick, to the state of Walsh park, to an extremely pubic spat with local business man (granted who made it public) down to the organising of the fixtures and the long gaps between throw in times.

We are looking for two senior managers and new stadium, are they up to it I wouldn't be confident in them.

bullpost

Road-Hog wrote: »

Re new management team - do we need to go down the limerick route ie get the backing of a waterford business person group who is passionate about the sport and then appoint and support from within county. Doubt if many heard too much about John kiely before this year......and there is no doubt limerick’s panel is definitely not that far ahead of us (if at all) with respect to talent.....its primarily down to ‘mental preparation’/self belief etc. how many of w’ford Panel have minor and u21 titles...? Is this current crop of players going to go down same road as the 1998 to 2008 group....?

Bankroll candidate here : https://www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/six-irish-men-to-share-635m-after-sale-of-drug-firm-1.3611807

Waterford guy who's just become very rich apparently.

Giveitfong

Some interesting thoughts on the appointment of new county team managers from Dr Ed Coughlan in today’s Examiner. I wonder how many of these will feature in the process of finding a successor to Derek McGrath.

The common course of action when recruiting a manager is that a select group of people is tasked with finding the replacement. Often these committees, per se, are made up of county board members, who may not always have their finger on the pulse as to what a high performance sporting environment looks like.

One thing is for sure though, that each of these four vacancies requires a manager with a deep appreciation of what an environment like that actually is — and how to build one if it is not already in place.

How many recently departed managers are engaged in an exit interview to eke out the learnings that ultimately lead to their departure? Think of the rich information gained from a knowledge transfer to inform his successor.
How many of these selection committees will have a representative from the players on board, either a former player or a current on, or both? How many former managers will sit around that table? How many coaching officers, those who work on the ground around the county will have a platform for input? How many outside, independent people will contribute to the process, bringing an essential helping of objectivity to proceedings?

Think of the depth, breadth, and quality of questioning that would come from such a diverse team of individuals tasked with finding the right replacement to either return Kerry football or Tipperary hurling to their place at the top table or to finally bring glory to the nearly men of Waterford hurling or Mayo football.

This is not to suggest that every one of these people sits in on an interview process, but their insights, experiences, and queries should inform the line of questioning. All too often, such a process is decided on by the presentation of a vision from the candidates. But a vision is often a best-case scenario presented with the best will in the world without any of the real-life pressures of implementation.

A strong selection panel will know how to pressure test a vision before committing to one over another. Critical to a vision is to measure how it aligns with what is already in place.

Unfortunately, many new managers speak with an arrogance that they’ll be the one to right the wrongs they observed from the outside looking in. However, no set-up is void of some positives. The people who have gone before had their ideas, and they may not have worked for many different and complex reasons. Especially, in the case of Éamonn Fitzmaurice, Michael Ryan, and Derek McGrath whose tenure has either championship or league silverware to show for their efforts.

That said, because Stephen Rochford won nothing in his three years does not mean he would not have a wealth of experience and insights to hand over to his successor.

But will such a conversation ever take place? In the way that great players often pass on their knowledge to those who follow in their footsteps, managers appear to be less inclined to share with those who fill the hot seat. Or maybe it is the new man who is unwilling to engage. Does ego pollute this space, rich with lessons for everyone to learn from, and ultimately benefit the players in place?

Save a thought for the players, those who are required to adapt to a new voice with relative speed and fit into a new vision regardless of how well the previous one may have suited them. How often are they engaged in the process of finding a replacement? The culture within the GAA would not be known for how it engages with the voice of the players.

Take Mayo for instance. Think of what that squad has experienced in the last 10 years, with four different management teams, each convinced they were the ones to finally maximise the potential from within the county, only to fall short time and again.

Will the next man be sensible enough to recognise that major surgery is not required, but merely refinements and a return to the standards of excellence? Will the players be respected for what they have achieved and engaged in as stakeholders critical to the process of figuring out where they are deficient or will it be a one-way conversation, void of interaction, akin to a teacher speaking down to a pupil?

The likelihood is that some of these counties will have learned from the past and over the coming weeks will implement a method that would be comparable to the recruitment process of a world-class leader to a world-class environment.

The reality is that some will not.

upthedeise16

Why can’t our county board have common sense and do something similar? Might actually get a crowd at club games!

Mulbert

upthedeise16 wrote: »

Why can’t our county board have common sense and do something similar? Might actually get a crowd at club games!

Do you think the problem with low club game attendance's is the cost?

I don't believe that, as the vast majority of people in Waterford (or most other counties) aren't club members and only have a passing interest in club matters.

If all the games were free in, there wouldn't be any significant increase in attendance in my opinion.

upthedeise16

Mulbert wrote: »

Do you think the problem with low club game attendance's is the cost?

I don't believe that, as the vast majority of people in Waterford (or most other counties) aren't club members and only have a passing interest in club matters.

If all the games were free in, there wouldn't be any significant increase in attendance in my opinion.

Well charging in to 2 games in the afternoon last Sunday in Walsh Park and again in the evening for a 3rd game was very unfair.
As someone traveling from Dungarvan side, it was the reason I didn’t travel to the earlier games as I would have been kicked out of Walsh Park at 5 to be back for 7 and left with nothing to do and having to pay again. A weekend ticket would have made sense in my opinion.

DeiseDawg

upthedeise16 wrote: »

Well charging in to 2 games in the afternoon last Sunday in Walsh Park and again in the evening for a 3rd game was very unfair.
As someone traveling from Dungarvan side, it was the reason I didn’t travel to the earlier games as I would have been kicked out of Walsh Park at 5 to be back for 7 and left with nothing to do and having to pay again. A weekend ticket would have made sense in my opinion.

Other way 'round. First game 1pm then a break and two games later.
But your point about weekend ticket makes great sense.

tommylad1212

Any players stand out in the east inter games today?

The blue blaa

Dan Shanahan is rumoured to be staying on with new incoming manager Pauric Fanning.

Does anyone agree or disagree with this?

Mastermcgrath

The blue blaa wrote: »

Dan Shanahan is rumoured to be staying on with new incoming manager Pauric Fanning.

Does anyone agree or disagree with this?

Once I see something concrete rather than a rumour I won’t waste my time on it

cul beag

The blue blaa wrote: »

Dan Shanahan is rumoured to be staying on with new incoming manager Pauric Fanning.

Does anyone agree or disagree with this?

I think it needs a total clear out from the previous regime. Will Fanning be undermined every time he wants to change from the old style or wants to freshen up the old squad? On the other side of things we always heard that Shanahan never had a say in team selection or panel selection or in certain tactics, that he was always out voted by his counterparts so lets see if that were true and his opinion really counts with the new manager. The one person that has been treated appallingly in all of this must be Sean Power.

The blue blaa

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

Once I see something concrete rather than a rumour I won’t waste my time on it

I believe the County board meeting tomorrow will confirm this.
Until then however this will not be concrete enough for some, so please if your time is so so precious do not comment on a chat forum.. ðŸ˜

TheScoringGoal

cul beag wrote: »

I think it needs a total clear out from the previous regime. Will Fanning be undermined every time he wants to change from the old style or wants to freshen up the old squad? On the other side of things we always heard that Shanahan never had a say in team selection or panel selection or in certain tactics, that he was always out voted by his counterparts so lets see if that were true and his opinion really counts with the new manager. The one person that has been treated appallingly in all of this must be Sean Power.

Who would you consider to be the players that are not currently involved that would improve the set up? I've been to most senior club games this year and some intermediate and there are very few if any that are not currently involved that are definitely going to improve the panel.

Edit- I may have misunderstood, perhaps you meant a clear out of management and selectors?

The blue blaa

cul beag wrote: »

I think it needs a total clear out from the previous regime. Will Fanning be undermined every time he wants to change from the old style or wants to freshen up the old squad? On the other side of things we always heard that Shanahan never had a say in team selection or panel selection or in certain tactics, that he was always out voted by his counterparts so lets see if that were true and his opinion really counts with the new manager. The one person that has been treated appallingly in all of this must be Sean Power.

Hi cul beag, I agree with you in terms of a total managerial back room clear out is required here.
Dan has given what 5 seasons with Mcgrath, it's time now to step aside and leave the new lad in. I am sure it will be hard for both to express themselves however they seem to believe it won't be.

I wonder how Fanning will set up the team (once he is confirmed) seen as he has been with Davy Fitz in both his previous Inter County jobs with ourselves an most recently Wexford. Davy played very deep also with 1 man up top.

Best of luck to them anyway we are all Waterford we all want what's best.

Mastermcgrath

The blue blaa wrote: »

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

Once I see something concrete rather than a rumour I won’t waste my time on it

I believe the County board meeting tomorrow will confirm this.
Until then however this will not be concrete enough for some, so please if your time is so so precious do not comment on a chat forum.. ðŸ˜

It’s been one rumour after another on here every day for the past 6 weeks, first Pat Ryan was announced here as our new manager, then Mattie Kenny was apparently all but handed the job. This Fanning ticket was supposedly going to be announced by the co board the last 2 Monday nights, no word of Dan then now Dan is back involved. It changes every week. Forgive me for reserving any more judgement until something concrete is officially announced

PTH2009

Fanning was also involved with Laois for a few years

Derek was a brillent man manager so Fanning or whoever gets the job will have there work cut out in that regard

They will have to back training next month or early Nov surprisingly. The lads have had a long deserved time off and are prob rearing to go

Any word if Brick is staying around for next year ?

Stopitwillya

PTH2009 wrote: »

Derek was a brillent man manager so Fanning or whoever gets the job will have there work cut out in that regard

Was Derek really a brilliant manager?
Liked by the players but that doesn't make you a brilliant manager.
Winning trophies does and he didn't achieve much on that regard.


They will have to back training next month or early Nov surprisingly. The lads have had a long deserved time off and are prob rearing to go

Would they not be playing with their clubs?
Players need a break or just get burnt out.
/quote]

PTH2009

Stopitwillya wrote: »

PTH2009 wrote: »

Derek was a brillent man manager so Fanning or whoever gets the job will have there work cut out in that regard

Was Derek really a brilliant manager?
Liked by the players but that doesn't make you a brilliant manager.
Winning trophies does and he didn't achieve much on that regard.


They will have to back training next month or early Nov surprisingly. The lads have had a long deserved time off and are prob rearing to go

Would they not be playing with their clubs?
Players need a break or just get burnt out.
/quote]

Sum lads are finished with there clubs already

cul beag

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

Who would you consider to be the players that are not currently involved that would improve the set up? I've been to most senior club games this year and some intermediate and there are very few if any that are not currently involved that are definitely going to improve the panel.

Edit- I may have misunderstood, perhaps you meant a clear out of management and selectors?

As a matter of interest what current panelists have stood out throughout the different championships you have seen?
Kieran Power of Dungarvan has had an excellent campaign, Iarlaith Daly has been very good aswell. Conor Prunty definitely deserves a shot at fullback now that there’s a new manager willing to break the cartel created from the last reign. Colm Roche if given as much time as others will have something to offer also. By not adding to the previous panel,Mcgrath created a comfort zone with fellas not having to look over their shoulder as they knew the team wouldn’t be changed.

Mulbert

cul beag wrote: »

As a matter of interest what current panelists have stood out throughout the different championships you have seen?
Kieran Power of Dungarvan has had an excellent campaign, Iarlaith Daly has been very good aswell. Conor Prunty definitely deserves a shot at fullback now that there’s a new manager willing to break the cartel created from the last reign. Colm Roche if given as much time as others will have something to offer also. By not adding to the previous panel,Mcgrath created a comfort zone with fellas not having to look over their shoulder as they knew the team wouldn’t be changed.

You're probably right there Cul beag but I have no doubt that u will continue to besmerch, abuse and harrass any manager whom doesn't match your narrow agenda or ideals.

TheScoringGoal

cul beag wrote: »

As a matter of interest what current panelists have stood out throughout the different championships you have seen?
Kieran Power of Dungarvan has had an excellent campaign, Iarlaith Daly has been very good aswell. Conor Prunty definitely deserves a shot at fullback now that there’s a new manager willing to break the cartel created from the last reign. Colm Roche if given as much time as others will have something to offer also. By not adding to the previous panel,Mcgrath created a comfort zone with fellas not having to look over their shoulder as they knew the team wouldn’t be changed.

You've named 4 players. Two of them were already on the panel.

cascade12

Don't think Fanning will be getting the job but whoever does needs the full backing of the board and supporters. Some of the sniping on here towards Derek Mcgrath is totally uncalled for. He brought us closer to an All Ireland than anyone else since 1959. Am I the only one on this site that thinks we are not as good as the majority of supporters seem to think we are.
Another point that is not being made here is that both teams played a sweeper in the All Ireland final this year. In fact Limerick played a sweeper all year. And, in my opinion, Tadgh will have to play the same role for us going forward if we are to have any chance. And to be fair that is where Pauric Fanning would be playing him as he is a very defensively minded coach. But like I said above, he will not be getting the job.