Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

mountgomery burns

Cornerstoner wrote: »

For me, Ballygunners game plan has been found out again on the big day. Their inside line (Dessie in particular) work space incredibly well. However, the lack of any ball winners in the half forward line is killing them. Once pressure is applied to there defenders they are not able to by pass their half forward line with pin point deliveries.

On a side note, phenomenal display from Brendan Maher. What a player he is considering the injury he sustained

Wouldn't say that's a failure of the game plan, I mean they still were unlucky not to win the match. It's just a problem that they don't have a balance in the forward line between small and pacy Vs big strong ball winner so they have no choice.

thesultan

It was Conditions that stopped their slick passing.

hardybuck

A lot of overreaction here.

Ballygunner went out and were beaten by a better side, probably better suited to the conditions, on the day.

If next year the Waterford county side was able to win a Munster Championship game in Clare, stuff Limerick at home and then lose in the final to Tipp by a point I think we'd all be very satisfied.

They remain the standard bearers in Waterford and they could easily do ten in a row going by the current gap that exists and their age profile.

Aside from Hutchinson I was impressed by Sheahan yesterday.

Pogue eile

Cornerstoner wrote: »

For me, Ballygunners game plan has been found out again on the big day. Their inside line (Dessie in particular) work space incredibly well. However, the lack of any ball winners in the half forward line is killing them. Once pressure is applied to there defenders they are not able to by pass their half forward line with pin point deliveries.

On a side note, phenomenal display from Brendan Maher. What a player he is considering the injury he sustained

Their opposition in the Tipperary County Final made the exact same mistake, trying to play summer hurling in the winter, but I can't agree with people suggesting that teams can simply over haul their gameplan that they have been fine tuning all year and probably longer, you cut your cloth to measure as they say.

Sometimes the best team on the day wins, there doesnt have to be a big mystrery behind it and in Brendan Maher Borris had far and away the best player on the pitch in the second half when the game was in the melting pot.

blueflame

If in the last minute Ballygunner had gotten a winning point would everyone have been writing the "best team won" and saluting Ballygunner for not changing their game plan despite the conditions.

Games that are this close tend to hinge on very small margins and i don't think either side would have complained about getting a second bite at the cherry, it was that close.

- If Hogan's pass had been slightly better earlier on the first half you had a certain goal.
- If Hogan had gotten just another step or two before being hauled to the ground you were looking at a penalty and then to rub salt into the wound he got injured in the challenge.
- Leavy was definitely shoved in the back, but Murphy signaled a fair shoulder to shoulder for what would have been a very scoreable free.

At the end of the day any of those three things could have seen the result reversed. I personally thought it was typical game of two halves influenced by the wind and conditions and neither side deserved to loose, and if anything the conditions favoured the more physically imposing Borrisaleigh side.

If having a "massive pick" was a guarantee of success, Ballyhale Shamrocks would have nothing in the cupboard and clubs from the cities of Cork, Limerick, Galway and Dublin would be cleaning up, but it doesn't work that way. Hats off to Ballygunner for how they have gone about their business for the last seven years, they deserve great credit especially when you look at the young players they have continued to add to their team each year. Make no mistake, the likes of Leavy, Sheehan and Hutchinson, will have learned an awful lot from yesterday and will come back all the stronger for it.

Whiplash85

hardybuck wrote: »

A lot of overreaction here.

Ballygunner went out and were beaten by a better side, probably better suited to the conditions, on the day.

If next year the Waterford county side was able to win a Munster Championship game in Clare, stuff Limerick at home and then lose in the final to Tipp by a point I think we'd all be very satisfied.

They remain the standard bearers in Waterford and they could easily do ten in a row going by the current gap that exists and their age profile.

Aside from Hutchinson I was impressed by Sheahan yesterday.

I'd go along with that. Kiladangan beat Borrisoleigh comfortably in Tipp earlier on in the summer. For much of the county final they were better than Borrisoleigh. Missed penalty, hit cross bar, missed easy frees in front of the post but the longer you leave Borrisoleigh hang around the worse it is for your chances. They just grind and grind and grind. No flashy hurlers. Kiladangan tried to play it through the lines like Limerick would do using a possession type game and got swallowed up time and again.

Something similar happened yesterday to Ballygunner. There is no question but they had better hurlers but sometimes you meet a team with a collective mindset of never giving up and putting the body on the line and there is not much you can do. This intensity seems to ratchet up in last 10 minutes, momentum turns and it is impossible to get back. This was typified by Brendan Maher but 2 moments stood out with Borrisoleigh players losing hurleys and instinctively keeping the ball moving until the support arrived. Its not hard to draw inspiration from that. It is indisputable that both teams wanted to win yesterday as much as the other but you got the sense watching it that Borrisoleigh were playing for something more and probably willing to risk more.

PTH2009

Is Noel Connors back in the Waterford panel ??

heard a few weeks he was

tommylad1212

PTH2009 wrote: »

Is Noel Connors back in the Waterford panel ??

heard a few weeks he was

No

Cornerstoner

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Wouldn't say that's a failure of the game plan, I mean they still were unlucky not to win the match. It's just a problem that they don't have a balance in the forward line between small and pacy Vs big strong ball winner so they have no choice.

Just to clarify I don’t think it’s actually a pre determined game plan failure. Ballygunners game plan suits the players they have available. My point is that the way they play is reflective of Waterfords current inability to produce ball winning half forwards

mountgomery burns

Cornerstoner wrote: »

Just to clarify I don’t think it’s actually a pre determined game plan failure. Ballygunners game plan suits the players they have available. My point is that the way they play is reflective of Waterfords current inability to produce ball winning half forwards

Agreed yeah, we might be served well by a similar style of play though. I imagine it would be much more difficult at inter county level however

wadefuq

For me Blueflame has summed up the muster final perfectly above. Game could have gone either way.
Was the free against Sully after the short Puck out pointed? the replay showed he initially controlled it on the Hurley but assume he was penalised for catching 3 times

Giveitfong

The weather conditions certainly did not suit Ballygunner yesterday. Suggesting they should have changed their style of play to suit the conditions is off the mark – many of their players are light and they don’t have ball-winning forwards, They would have been wiped out if they went for a long-ball game. They have developed a playing style which suits the players available and it has worked very well for them.

If yesterday had been a dry day I have no doubt but that Ballygunner would have won. However, the driving rain and poor underfoot conditions worked against the superb first touch and accurate stick passing which are crucial to their game plan.

I also thought that the referee did Ballygunner no favours on the day. The free from which Borrisileigh got the winning point, for example, was a very dubious decision. Borrisileigh did raise their game substantially in the second half, no doubt after getting a shellacking from Johnny Kelly in the dressing room at half time.

Yet the fact is that Ballygunner only lost by a single point in a game which could have gone either way. It didn’t help that Pauric Mahony missed several frees, and while most of them were long distance and therefore difficult, even one lucky break would have brought the game into extra time.

In a game of fine margins, even minor issues can have major consequences, and I thought that the Ballygunner game management could have been better. On the basis of his semi-final performance Tim O’Sullivan did not deserve his place on the team and I was astonished that he was left on for so long. I don’t think he made one decent play during his period on the field.

I thought that Barry Coughlan might have been better employed marking the Borrisileigh full forward who was causing Ian Kenny all sorts of problems, especially in the second half. And with the game becoming very physical in the final quarter, I thought there was a case of bringing Wayne Hutchinson into the defence at that stage.

I was delighted to see Paddy Leavy building on the good impression he made in the previous game. His size, strength and work rate, allied to his undoubted skill, made him one of the best players on the pitch.

mountgomery burns

Sorry to deflect, but anyone know who'd be considered the best Hurley maker in Waterford now? Flanagan?

TheScoringGoal

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Sorry to deflect, but anyone know who'd be considered the best Hurley maker in Waterford now? Flanagan?

Best is subjective. What you like could be what someone else hates. For example I played with a lot of Clare lads who swear by Torpey hurleys but I hate them.

For what it's worth I was a big fan of Flanagans hurleys and he'll custom make them to a few different styles.

big_drive

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

Best is subjective. What you like could be what someone else hates. For example I played with a lot of Clare lads who swear by Torpey hurleys but I hate them.

For what it's worth I was a big fan of Flanagans hurleys and he'll custom make them to a few different styles.

Lot of the Ballygunner lads use o’briens from Tipp.

mountgomery burns

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

Best is subjective. What you like could be what someone else hates. For example I played with a lot of Clare lads who swear by Torpey hurleys but I hate them.

For what it's worth I was a big fan of Flanagans hurleys and he'll custom make them to a few different styles.

Best reputation so let's say

Mastermcgrath

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Sorry to deflect, but anyone know who'd be considered the best Hurley maker in Waterford now? Flanagan?

Frank Murphy yer only man

thesultan

I always like Frank Murphys

Pogue eile

Giveitfong wrote: »

I also thought that the referee did Ballygunner no favours on the day. The free from which Borrisileigh got the winning point, for example, was a very dubious decision.

There were plenty of frees either way that could be argued with and against, it's an inevitable result of those condition types. FWIW Ballygunner were awarded 16 frees and Borrisoleigh 14. Persoanlly thought he did a fine job, 30 frees in 65 mins hurling in those conditions and not a dirty stroke pulled in the game, about as good as any referee could do imo.

The harsh reality it that Borris had 31 turnovers to Ballygunners 14, thats a damning statistic no matter what way you dress it up.

whiteandblue

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/austin-gleeson-skipping-christmas-to-rediscover-spirit-of-16-966571.html

Players putting in a big pre-season effort according to Austin Gleeson

Gardner

whiteandblue wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/austin-gleeson-skipping-christmas-to-rediscover-spirit-of-16-966571.html

Players putting in a big pre-season effort according to Austin Gleeson

sure what else was he going to say. "ah the lads are taking it handy sure we know what we're doing"

big_drive

Impressed enough with the interviews Gleeson gave. Seems more mature and I’d say realises it’s a big year and Cahill won’t carry passengers

hardybuck

I'm actually starting to feel a bit sorry for the guy.

He looks like a lad who might be a bit lost and is in danger of trying too hard to rediscover his form. Good chance he'll never get back to that level - how many guys win player of the year more than once?

On too many occasions in 2017 and 2018 he looked like he was carrying an injury and not 100% fit. If I recall correctly something fairly similar happened to Tony Browne after he won POTY - he wasn't right for 2-3 years after it but bounced back.

I'm not sure what he means by 'skipping Christmas', and taking a conscious decision not to relax with family and friends, or if he actually means it, but that can't be good for a guy.

Players should be afforded space and time to have a life outside the game. I wouldn't want a group of lads in my squad who chose a monastic existence.

mountgomery burns

He was injured for a lot of 2018, he got hurt against Tipp when he was having a Stormer and then he got an infected ankle.

Talk is cheap, but he looked like he's on the right path with the exhibition he gave in the County Semi. Hopefully Cahill instills that motivation and discipline in him that's needed.

PTH2009

NHL 2020

Sun 26th Jan- Cork (H)
Sun 2nd Feb- Westmeath (A)
Sat 15th Feb- Limerick (A)
Sun 23rd Feb- Galway (H)
Sun 1st Mar- Tipp (A)

Pogue eile

big_drive wrote: »

Impressed enough with the interviews Gleeson gave. Seems more mature and I’d say realises it’s a big year and Cahill won’t carry passengers

hardybuck wrote: »

I'm actually starting to feel a bit sorry for the guy.

He looks like a lad who might be a bit lost and is in danger of trying too hard to rediscover his form. Good chance he'll never get back to that level - how many guys win player of the year more than once?

On too many occasions in 2017 and 2018 he looked like he was carrying an injury and not 100% fit. If I recall correctly something fairly similar happened to Tony Browne after he won POTY - he wasn't right for 2-3 years after it but bounced back.

I'm not sure what he means by 'skipping Christmas', and taking a conscious decision not to relax with family and friends, or if he actually means it, but that can't be good for a guy.

Players should be afforded space and time to have a life outside the game. I wouldn't want a group of lads in my squad who chose a monastic existence.

Cahill will be the making of Gleeson, If Liam Cahill achieves nothing else apart from this it will be a huge success for Waterford.

Jjjjjjjjbarry

PTH2009 wrote: »

NHL 2020

Sun 26th Jan- Cork (H)
Sun 2nd Feb- Westmeath (A)
Sat 15th Feb- Limerick (A)
Sun 23rd Feb- Galway (H)
Sun 1st Mar- Tipp (A)

Better than I expected. Thought we'd get Galway away so I'll take that!!

Jjjjjjjjbarry

https://azzurri.ie/product-detail/2188/Waterford-2020-Training-Jersey/?fbclid=IwAR0TnhPVCsM3BImnRWrnuEGtSkHq6P_-NMfC5y3HowRPrBgWQUaY6bZO-fs

A new training jersey for 2020.

Stacksofwacks

hardybuck wrote: »

I'm actually starting to feel a bit sorry for the guy.

He looks like a lad who might be a bit lost and is in danger of trying too hard to rediscover his form. Good chance he'll never get back to that level - how many guys win player of the year more than once?

On too many occasions in 2017 and 2018 he looked like he was carrying an injury and not 100% fit. If I recall correctly something fairly similar happened to Tony Browne after he won POTY - he wasn't right for 2-3 years after it but bounced back.

I'm not sure what he means by 'skipping Christmas', and taking a conscious decision not to relax with family and friends, or if he actually means it, but that can't be good for a guy.

Players should be afforded space and time to have a life outside the game. I wouldn't want a group of lads in my squad who chose a monastic existence.

He sounds like a fella who overthinks stuff. All he needs to do is get his head down and train hard, let the rest take care of itself.

Mastermcgrath

Pogue eile wrote: »

Cahill will be the making of Gleeson, If Liam Cahill achieves nothing else apart from this it will be a huge success for Waterford.

Getting rid of Connors and Shanahan could prove to be a masterstroke yet if it gets Gleeson and a few others to settle down. The perception was that it was a big gamble by Cahill but truth be told the 2 lads were over the hill the past couple years anyway and not going to improve at this stage of their careers. Cahill wouldn't have lost too much sleep over making that decision as it was for the greater good of some younger players.

Cahill has already indicated that he sees Gleeson as his long term centre back and evidently wants to build the team around him. Gleeson seems to be reacting in the right way to whatever discussions Cahill has had with him judging by those interviews. Ken McGrath was moved to centre back in his mid-20s and established that position for years to come, I think Cahill has similar ambitions for Gleeson