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Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51
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The support of other sports in the area like Soccer but that's only a quick guess
Do not agree tbh. Same in every county bar Kilkenny. Cork have it limerick have rugby. It is the malaise and apathy towards the board & boards with specific reference to the people running them for last 20 years0 -
thesaturdayman wrote: »Do not agree tbh. Same in every county bar Kilkenny. Cork have it limerick have rugby. It is the malaise and apathy towards the board & boards with specific reference to the people running them for last 20 years[/quote,
If the appetite was there these people wouldn't be on the boards for the last 20 years. Are you actively seeking to be on these boards? Is there anyone actively seeking to change the people on the boards? If there is them people would be gone.
I see in my own club the lads doing the majority of the work are in 70s . People give out about them as well calling them dinosaurs etc but if they don't do it noone else will bother.
More than 3/4 of modern Waterford gaa fans are band wagon jumpers with no interest in working behind the scenes at county or club level. Let's be honest about.
Easy talking about changes much harder when you realise you have to commit time to meetings etc.0 -
thesaturdayman wrote: »Do not agree tbh. Same in every county bar Kilkenny. Cork have it limerick have rugby. It is the malaise and apathy towards the board & boards with specific reference to the people running them for last 20 years[/quote,
If the appetite was there these people wouldn't be on the boards for the last 20 years. Are you actively seeking to be on these boards? Is there anyone actively seeking to change the people on the boards? If there is them people would be gone.
I see in my own club the lads doing the majority of the work are in 70s . People give out about them as well calling them dinosaurs etc but if they don't do it noone else will bother.
More than 3/4 of modern Waterford gaa fans are band wagon jumpers with no interest in working behind the scenes at county or club level. Let's be honest about.
Easy talking about changes much harder when you realise you have to commit time to meetings etc.
Once bitten twice shy.
And it’s not as simple as go put your hand up, they - the incumbents - have all the voting sorted, it’s musical chairs every time a job comes up. The chairman becomes central council rep, Munster council rep becomes development officer. Waste of time.
It doesn’t need a service or an oil change, it needs a complete overhaul.
Prime time was good tonight.....!0 -
Gawd, with the boy now eagerly demanding to go to any training session that's going I'm dreading the prospect of being asked to 'help out'. I'll get sucked in eventually but I'm putting off the day. My brother's tales of the time he was club treasurer would put years on you.If the appetite was there these people wouldn't be on the boards for the last 20 years. Are you actively seeking to be on these boards? Is there anyone actively seeking to change the people on the boards? If there is them people would be gone.
I see in my own club the lads doing the majority of the work are in 70s . People give out about them as well calling them dinosaurs etc but if they don't do it noone else will bother.
More than 3/4 of modern Waterford gaa fans are band wagon jumpers with no interest in working behind the scenes at county or club level. Let's be honest about.
Easy talking about changes much harder when you realise you have to commit time to meetings etc.
In short, you're right.0 -
St Saviour's are back in the senior football ranks after beating Modeligo 0-8-0-7 in the county Intermediate football final today0
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Ballygunner have now won every age group from u12-17, all in A grade. The conveyor belt just keeps on churning them out down there. Fair play to them but others need to close the gap. Was at the u16 game today- v entertaining, v close. Ref did his best to ruin the game! The standard of refereeing was poor. There was something like 25 frees in the 2nd half alone with Abbeyside getting 19 frees and Bg 6!! The supporters were not back from the field as in there was no railing and each team had to provide an umpire and linesman- for a co final, this is poor show from Bord na nÓg. If it was a heated affair, god only knows what might have happened!0
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EYEBALLSOUT wrote: »Ballygunner have now won every age group from u12-17, all in A grade. The conveyor belt just keeps on churning them out down there. Fair play to them but others need to close the gap. Was at the u16 game today- v entertaining, v close. Ref did his best to ruin the game! The standard of refereeing was poor. There was something like 25 frees in the 2nd half alone with Abbeyside getting 19 frees and Bg 6!! The supporters were not back from the field as in there was no railing and each team had to provide an umpire and linesman- for a co final, this is poor show from Bord na nÓg. If it was a heated affair, god only knows what might have happened!
Why was Dungarvan CG chosen as a venue and who makes these decisions? Plenty of good neutral venues in the rural clubs around the county that are better equipped to host big games, I can think of places off my head like Kilmacthomas, lemybrien, stradbally, Portlaw, Kill that have railings to protect players0 -
Mastermcgrath wrote: »Why was Dungarvan CG chosen as a venue and who makes these decisions? Plenty of good neutral venues in the rural clubs around the county that are better equipped to host big games, I can think of places off my head like Kilmacthomas, lemybrien, stradbally, Portlaw, Kill that have railings to protect players
Originally Colligan I believe but it was changed. Hard to know why a more neutral venue wasn’t chosen! That said, the pitch in Dungarvan GAA held up well considering the rain that fell.0 -
EYEBALLSOUT wrote: »Ballygunner have now won every age group from u12-17, all in A grade. The conveyor belt just keeps on churning them out down there. Fair play to them but others need to close the gap. Was at the u16 game today- v entertaining, v close. Ref did his best to ruin the game! The standard of refereeing was poor. There was something like 25 frees in the 2nd half alone with Abbeyside getting 19 frees and Bg 6!! The supporters were not back from the field as in there was no railing and each team had to provide an umpire and linesman- for a co final, this is poor show from Bord na nÓg. If it was a heated affair, god only knows what might have happened!
That is an unbelievable achievement. As a club they are looking like they are getting stronger fair play to them and it is up to the rest to go and challenge them.
What I find amazing is that for all of there success they dont produce any really top class county players. They have won 6 in a row senior and realistically Waterford senior team could line out without one player from ballygunner and not be weakened.0 -
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Anybody know what’s after happening with the Paul Flynn and Dave Bennett minor hurling selection?0
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Stacksofwacks wrote: »They wont be in the senior ranks for very long given that display, Modeligo should probably have won it, was an awful match by 2 poor teams
Have you seen many senior matches this year the standard is very poor0 -
That is an unbelievable achievement. As a club they are looking like they are getting stronger fair play to them and it is up to the rest to go and challenge them.
What I find amazing is that for all of there success they dont produce any really top class county players. They have won 6 in a row senior and realistically Waterford senior team could line out without one player from ballygunner and not be weakened.
2 Mahonys’s? Sok?0 -
Fine hurlers and I'm not trying to have a dig, but do you reckon either of the Mahonys would get on the Tipperary starting team?Mastermcgrath wrote: »2 Mahonys’s? Sok?0 -
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Fine hurlers and I'm not trying to have a dig, but do you reckon either of the Mahonys would get on the Tipperary starting team?
They wouldn’t lads. Both are great players but short of the speed needed at the top level of intercounty players.
Philip wouldn’t get in the Tipp half backline and Paurick would be probably 1st sub in that tipp forward line.
Its a harsh thing to say but its a reality. Speed is the key ingredient in modern day hurling.
That said, both are great men and proud Waterford men!0 -
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Abbeyside won the junior C hurling title
All square in the Junior B final between Erin's own and An Rinn
Junior A final between Ballydurn and St Mary's next week0 -
EYEBALLSOUT wrote: »Sok would make the Tipp goal, no doubt about that
SOK is the only one of the three that would make the Tipp team.0 -
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I'd fancy Philip Mahony has done enough to think he could start ahead of one of Barry Heffernan, Seamus Kennedy or James Barry (started earlier in the year). Tipps half forward is often their weakest line so while maybe not an automatic starter, Paudie Mahony certainly be in the conversation. He would thrive on the type of game they play, he's all about picking up space and brilliant with ball in had.
I get the posters point though, it's not like the Mount Sion team that included Ken McGrath, Tony Browne and Eoin Kelly. But they've probably north of 20 lads good enough to play Senior club hurling and that's where their strength is.0 -
mountgomery burns wrote: »I'd fancy Philip Mahony has done enough to think he could start ahead of one of Barry Heffernan, Seamus Kennedy or James Barry (started earlier in the year). Tipps half forward is often their weakest line so while maybe not an automatic starter, Paudie Mahony certainly be in the conversation. He would thrive on the type of game they play, he's all about picking up space and brilliant with ball in had.
I get the posters point though, it's not like the Mount Sion team that included Ken McGrath, Tony Browne and Eoin Kelly. But they've probably north of 20 lads good enough to play Senior club hurling and that's where their strength is.
Looking at Ballyhale Shamrocks on tv yesteday their forward play looks on a different planet to any senior club team we have in Waterford. And they would have a quarter of the pick if even of Ballygunnar.
How is that so?0 -
Deise Gael wrote: »SOK is the only one of the three that would make the Tipp team.
They’d all be there or thereabouts. Hard to say if they’d all be selected to start on a given day0 -
Looking at Ballyhale Shamrocks on tv yesteday their forward play looks on a different planet to any senior club team we have in Waterford. And they would have a quarter of the pick if even of Ballygunnar.
How is that so?
You from Waterford?
To be honest, I didn't see it that way last year. They got a disappointing goal to give away, while at the other end the ball stuck in the mud for Hogan's great goal chance. Be interesting if they met again.
Population has never been the be all and end all when it comes to club hurling.0 -
any news from the senior hurling setup ??
what new players are in the training panel ?0 -
mountgomery burns wrote: »You from Waterford?
To be honest, I didn't see it that way last year. They got a disappointing goal to give away, while at the other end the ball stuck in the mud for Hogan's great goal chance. Be interesting if they met again.
Population has never been the be all and end all when it comes to club hurling.
I agree with the original poster, Ballyhale have 6 natural scoring forwards. Bg scored 3pts from play in an hour of hurling v Ballyhale scored 1-10 from play & that was with Tj & Colin Fennelly held scoreless. The ball stuck in the mud was hit by Brian o Sullivan & was going across the goal so it would have needed another player to hit it if it was to reach the net.
Bg had a good start but their forwards play v deep and when ballyhale forced sok to puck it long the weakness of this Bg team was exploited ruthlessly- inability to win ball in the air at half forward & midfield.
This sounds negative but its what went down and unfortunately in club championship here in Waterford we don’t have any club team able to ask those questions of Bg.
Sixmilebridge game will be tight up there plus I think there could be a niggle in it from their last challenge game where a Sixmilebridge lad got sent off (justifiably so i heard) but the ref reported it and they lost the championship last yr over it.0 -
EYEBALLSOUT wrote: »I agree with the original poster, Ballyhale have 6 natural scoring forwards. Bg scored 3pts from play in an hour of hurling v Ballyhale scored 1-10 from play & that was with Tj & Colin Fennelly held scoreless. The ball stuck in the mud was hit by Brian o Sullivan & was going across the goal so it would have needed another player to hit it if it was to reach the net.
Bg had a good start but their forwards play v deep and when ballyhale forced sok to puck it long the weakness of this Bg team was exploited ruthlessly- inability to win ball in the air at half forward & midfield.
This sounds negative but its what went down and unfortunately in club championship here in Waterford we don’t have any club team able to ask those questions of Bg.
Sixmilebridge game will be tight up there plus I think there could be a niggle in it from their last challenge game where a Sixmilebridge lad got sent off (justifiably so i heard) but the ref reported it and they lost the championship last yr over it.
If Ballygunnar come out of Sixmilebridge with a win then I think they ll win the All Ireland. That's how much of a litmus test it will be. It's a fantastic pitch to play on and a scenic ground right in the middle of the rolling hills of South East Clare. I wish I could be there. The one team that won there is Na Piarsaigh and they were 9 down at half time so it can be done. I think this is a better team than a few years ago and it should be a humdinger.0 -
The following is meant to be an objective post & not derogatory or condescending towards any of the clubs mentioned or named below.
I am not certain also, but i am going to assume there are 50 adult clubs in Waterford its possibly less. For round figures 50 works well.
I have heard from a couple of reliable sources that Dunhill and Bonmahon are at very advanced talks to merge next year at adult level.
This is now and should be a massive cause for concern not alone this specifically but events over the passed few years that have been allowed (and often through necessity) develop.
So lets assume the merger goes ahead, below is what the state of the nation will be in Waterford for 2020;
Fenor + Dunhill merged underage playing as Na Gaeil
Fenor + Dunhill + Butlerstown playing at minor & U19 as Clann na Gaeil
Kill + Bonmahon + Newtown/Ballydurn + Kilmacthomas + John Mitchells playing together as St Marys underage & up to u19
Kill + Fenor playing together at adult level - Kill in Football, Fenor in Hurling
Bonmahon + Dunhill playing together at adult level - Bonmahon in football, Dunhill in hurling
Ballyduff lower + Portlaw playing together from minor to u19
Ballyduff lower a standalone dual club
Portlaw a standalone dual club
What other county on this planet would think all this carry on is acceptable!? I doubt even the clubs themselves are happy with it!!
I understand that numbers are an issue. Surely be to god a 12 a side standalone teams where possible is a better solution and then go for group teams from minor up as well as lower grade 12 a side teams?
u17 players not being allowed play adult has a huge impact on these clubs, but where are the proposals and solutions from our famous board?
Butlerstown previously were merged with Ballyduff and were set to merge with Dunhiil 12 or so months and it collapsed at the 11th hour.
I understand rural depopulation is a massive issue, but in the name of god lets put this in context, I have named 8 clubs specifically, 10 in all that is 10/50 20% of the playing population of Waterford GAA here!
This is a major major train crash waiting to happen.
Where are all the families that won so much with these famous clubs gone to? Left the GAA? is there such an apathy at underage level with Kids that they dont want to play anymore!
To contrast the above a quick look at the local schoolboy soccer, Ballyduff, Portlaw, Crusaders, Seaview Celtic, Tramore Rgrs, Kilmacthomas all field teams, so i dont accept the argument of no young lads around the place. There are national schools also in every one of these villages and surrounding areas.
There evidently is lads and are choosing soccer or whatever ahead of GAA.
Also where is the "mid county GDA" should they not be steering this and trying to put in place sustainable structures hand in hand with a county board task force?
John O Leary, Tommy Hennessy, Sean Michael O Regan are all from a lot of these impacted clubs - do they not see the wood from the trees?
These are clubs with huge history, huge potential and for the most part very good facilities who have all at different stages provided players to the county - i cant help but feel Michael Harney is one could have fallen through the crack at adult level in recent times
However i have to say, being objective - the above inter club relationships at underage and then adult level are to say the least, weird and surely do not work?! Or least wont work beyond their honeymoon period?
Iv no idea what the situation is down the West, but i do know the u19 B football final had something like 13 clubs represented in it. So im surmising it cant be any better!
And im not here to throw stones at the clubs, they are doing what they think is right, how future proof is it? I am dubious. What are the board or GDAs doing? nothing that i can see.
Be keen to hear thoughts and solutions!0 -
What you'd have in other counties are divisional sides, but for some reason there is a total rejection to their value in Waterford. This would allow the clubs to continue to retain their individual identity at adult level while allowing the serious players an opportunity to step up and achieve their potential at a higher level.
The biggest issue for me is the total lack of games in a regular season - particular for young guys between 18-21. A guy coming out of minor might get one game at U19 level, and then if he's not in a senior or decent inter setup he's thrown to the wolves in junior competitions with sparse and sporadic fixtures.
I think clubs here have to share the blame as clubs seem to be able to hold up competitions if all their lads aren't available for some reason. In counties like Cork and Dublin they simply won't allow an U20 football competition, or a junior championship, to be held up because of a guy playing minor hurling with the county side - but that kind of messing seems to be allowed in Waterford.
The status of football in the east of the county is particularly dire, and hurling isn't too far behind outside of the big three in the city.
Edit: Solutions have to involve organising more games. In football I would be an advocate of a south east league for clubs in Waterford, Wexford, Carlow, South Tipp and even a few KK teams if they wanted to come down. This requires interest within the clubs however.
U19 grade should be scrapped immediately for an U20 competition.
Should also be 7 a side competitions trialled and held as social competitions. This side of the sport seems to have been badly overlooked, and things like tag and social rugby have brought huge numbers out to play rugby in all parts of the country - the same could work in the GAA.0 -
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thesaturdayman wrote: »The following is meant to be an objective post & not derogatory or condescending towards any of the clubs mentioned or named below.
I am not certain also, but i am going to assume there are 50 adult clubs in Waterford its possibly less. For round figures 50 works well.
I have heard from a couple of reliable sources that Dunhill and Bonmahon are at very advanced talks to merge next year at adult level.
This is now and should be a massive cause for concern not alone this specifically but events over the passed few years that have been allowed (and often through necessity) develop.
So lets assume the merger goes ahead, below is what the state of the nation will be in Waterford for 2020;
Fenor + Dunhill merged underage playing as Na Gaeil
Fenor + Dunhill + Butlerstown playing at minor & U19 as Clann na Gaeil
Kill + Bonmahon + Newtown/Ballydurn + Kilmacthomas + John Mitchells playing together as St Marys underage & up to u19
Kill + Fenor playing together at adult level - Kill in Football, Fenor in Hurling
Bonmahon + Dunhill playing together at adult level - Bonmahon in football, Dunhill in hurling
Ballyduff lower + Portlaw playing together from minor to u19
Ballyduff lower a standalone dual club
Portlaw a standalone dual club
What other county on this planet would think all this carry on is acceptable!? I doubt even the clubs themselves are happy with it!!
I understand that numbers are an issue. Surely be to god a 12 a side standalone teams where possible is a better solution and then go for group teams from minor up as well as lower grade 12 a side teams?
u17 players not being allowed play adult has a huge impact on these clubs, but where are the proposals and solutions from our famous board?
Butlerstown previously were merged with Ballyduff and were set to merge with Dunhiil 12 or so months and it collapsed at the 11th hour.
I understand rural depopulation is a massive issue, but in the name of god lets put this in context, I have named 8 clubs specifically, 10 in all that is 10/50 20% of the playing population of Waterford GAA here!
This is a major major train crash waiting to happen.
Where are all the families that won so much with these famous clubs gone to? Left the GAA? is there such an apathy at underage level with Kids that they dont want to play anymore!
To contrast the above a quick look at the local schoolboy soccer, Ballyduff, Portlaw, Crusaders, Seaview Celtic, Tramore Rgrs, Kilmacthomas all field teams, so i dont accept the argument of no young lads around the place. There are national schools also in every one of these villages and surrounding areas.
There evidently is lads and are choosing soccer or whatever ahead of GAA.
Also where is the "mid county GDA" should they not be steering this and trying to put in place sustainable structures hand in hand with a county board task force?
John O Leary, Tommy Hennessy, Sean Michael O Regan are all from a lot of these impacted clubs - do they not see the wood from the trees?
These are clubs with huge history, huge potential and for the most part very good facilities who have all at different stages provided players to the county - i cant help but feel Michael Harney is one could have fallen through the crack at adult level in recent times
However i have to say, being objective - the above inter club relationships at underage and then adult level are to say the least, weird and surely do not work?! Or least wont work beyond their honeymoon period?
Iv no idea what the situation is down the West, but i do know the u19 B football final had something like 13 clubs represented in it. So im surmising it cant be any better!
And im not here to throw stones at the clubs, they are doing what they think is right, how future proof is it? I am dubious. What are the board or GDAs doing? nothing that i can see.
Be keen to hear thoughts and solutions!
Some very good and well explained points as usual by the Saturdayman. I’d just like to add a few extra points. What really is going on with coaching and games in this county? Are we getting full value for the vast amount of money which croke park and Munster gaa have invested in this county? Are the clubs getting a proper return for the money which they contribute towards coaching and games? Are we playing enough games at primary school level( the schools here in the west played 5 football matches over the last 2 months, Kilkenny primary schools have played 8!!! From February our schools will play 5/6 hurling matches in Kilkenny they’ll play 12/13)? Are our development squads fit for purpose? Not alone are we loosing players at a rapid pace from u-13 to minor level but now we seem to be loosing coaches too( this years Tony forristal and u-16 hurling squads are going to have new coaches, last years u-16 and last years u-13 football squads lost coaching teams).
We’ve received the highest amount of money from croke park( in excess of €1m over the last 10 yrs) towards coaching and games with the least amount of clubs/schools and GDAs. The GDAs aren’t the problem, not enough of them is the problem. How many GDAS in Dublin/mayo( most Connaught counties actually) are GDAS? Now how many Waterford ,ex and present, players are GDAS? I know of a former all Ireland u-21 winner who applied for a GDA position but was told he hadn’t enough experience!!! Another former player, but who was playing for the county at the time,went back to college and asked could he do the Cúl camps during the summer but was told by the coaching and games officer he was too old, he was 27!!!!
Over the last 2 months the head of the coaching and games has been getting programs ready for the county finals. I’ve no problem with the proceeds of these going towards funding for the development squads. Excellent idea. But should the head of the coaching and games be doing this? What have we a county PRO for? Come to think of it who is the county PRO? I know Eimer Barry of Lismore use to do it, and did a great job, but she’s involved with the western board now so not sure who does it anymore.
If people want to see how coaching and games should be run in small counties check out what’s happening in Wexford, Leitrim and Carlow in particular. Once you’ve that done you’ll see that basically we are at nothing in this county and in 20yrs time we will be the worst off county in Ireland. We all spoke over the last few years about not becoming the new Offaly, just have a look at what’s going on in their coaching and games and their new,excellent, centre of excellence and then you realise how far and fast we are slipping off the top 10 of hurling and further down to the bottom of the football tree. Until we get the right person over coaching and games and restructure everything there is no point in us getting the likes of Liam Cahill in to try and help us win an all Ireland. Best of luck to him but I just think he is here at the wrong time.
I know this pice is a little all over the place but I hope people might get a just of what’s going on at underage. I don’t have very much faith in the review committee as I feel there is too many conflicts of interest with the people involved and I’ve very little faith that what is fully required to get us challenging for hurling all Ireland’s( adult and juvenile) competitive in tier 2 at football( adult and juvenile), a competitive club championship( adult and juvenile) won’t be implemented by the present board or it’s incumbents. 1 more year is too long to wait for the proper reform.0
This discussion has been closed.
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