Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

Stacksofwacks

Ropaire wrote: »

If u can't get the sliotar up to them it doesn't matter who you name up there though. There isn't any sign of a structured game plan or patterns of play that were worked on to give them any decent kind of supply either.

True, but good forwards will win the ball or draw a free. Our forwards havent been doing that, time and time again the ball comes back out. Its a pattern of the last 3-4 years, i dont thinks its Fannings fault. We are being outmuscled or outpaced. Look at how Cork's forward run into space all the time. Unless our forwards get ball directly to hand(as long as they dont drop it it) they cant do anything. Whether thats tactics or they arent up to it is a matter of opinion

Deiseen

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

True, but good forwards will win the ball or draw a free. Our forwards havent been doing that, time and time again the ball comes back out. Its a pattern of the last 3-4 years, i dont thinks its Fannings fault. We are being outmuscled or outpaced. Look at how Cork's forward run into space all the time. Unless our forwards get ball directly to hand(as long as they dont drop it it) they cant do anything. Whether thats tactics or they arent up to it is a matter of opinion

EXACTLY! This is why the 10 points against Limerick was so bad, if there was any go in the team then they would have got more than 10 in frees alone.

How many frees did Mullane win us over the years? Maybe our players are trying to be too flashy and give up possession as a result. Mullane would take on his man everytimeand there's a good chance he'd get through or win a free in the end.

Stacksofwacks

Deiseen wrote: »

EXACTLY! This is why the 10 points against Limerick was so bad, if there was any go in the team then they would have got more than 10 in frees alone.

How many frees did Mullane win us over the years? Maybe our players are trying to be too flashy and give up possession as a result. Mullane would take on his man everytimeand there's a good chance he'd get through or win a free in the end.

What a fighter Mullane was, he'd take on the Scottish army on his own

Deiseen

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

What a fighter Mullane was, he'd take on the Scottish army on his own

Some man for getting the crowd fired up and then he'd feed off that.

Nowadays the crowd is like a wet blanket.

Stacksofwacks

Deiseen wrote: »

Some man for getting the crowd fired up and then he'd feed off that.

Nowadays the crowd is like a wet blanket.

Aye the fist pumping days are over, now its selfies and be all nice as pie and don't offend anyone

Deiseen

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Aye the fist pumping days are over, now its selfies and be all nice as pie and don't offend anyone

Not much use for a fist these days unless its to punch yourself in the head while watching the muck we are playing.

wirelessdude01

Spatters wrote:

What are people’s opinion on Gleeson at the moment? Obviously worth holding onto based on age, ability etc.. but is he becoming a liability, a pain in the arse irrespective of who is the manager.

As a total outsider from a non hurlin county buy with a great love for the sport you have to ask what he brings to the team? What is his role? Is he a back, a forward, a midfielder? I know he does some inspirational things but where is his graft, his desire to do what is needed? An example of what he should aspire to be is across the border in KK in the form of Reid. Man does he work and lead the team. That's what Aussie needs to be one otherwise he is just a fancy Dan with no impactful end product. I fear that all these young lads are going to end up like those great Limerick U21 teams of the past that never quite lived up to billing at seniors. If the club rivalry is the issue then strong management mid needed similar to what happened in Galway with Donoghue. No club crap allowed with the county panel anymore.

_blaaz

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Tommy Ryan is a good impact sub, he started the last 2 days and he did nothing, his lack of physicality is also a problem. Someone mentioned Tom Devine, a big physical scoring forward(with skill too) is worth his weight in gold if we can coax him back onto the scene somehow then he would be a huge asset

To best of my knowlege tom devine wont be back due to medical problems


Someone of his physical presence with alot of hurling is needed

Road-Hog

If Clare lose to limerick today by 10 plus points will the same level of pessimism/negativity/player-manager slamming be taking place on the Clare forum........Collins, o’donnell, duggan to be dropped etc. loughlane to be brought back

Gavlor

Deisedozzer wrote: »

The single biggest issue for me tonight was a glaring lack of fitness. We were in the game with 15 mins to go and literally collapsed while Cork were flying.
.

cork have dougie howlet as their fitness coach we have a lad from WIT.
We’re light years behind other counties in terms of the support team.

spideyman92

There goes the hope of Fanning stepping aside...
https://twitter.com/wlrfm/status/1137637958436229121?s=19

Spatters

spideyman92 wrote: »

There goes the hope of Fanning stepping aside...
https://twitter.com/wlrfm/status/1137637958436229121?s=19

Im not too sure should he step down tbh.
Players downing tools and sulking highlighted there softness and inadequacies as opposed to playing well and showing up the mgmts.

upthedeise16

https://www.rte.ie/player/series/the-game--extra-time-s1-e9/SI0000005732?epguid=PL000001509

Randomly came across this on the RTÉ Player this morning, don’t know how but it really does hit home how bad things have gone.

Much the same players, very different attitudes, very different levels of fitness and very different results and very different levels of support from us supporters. I was at my wits end after last weekends match and disappointed again with last night but the 13 minute watch just showed me that all hope is not lost. Of course we will all give out but I know come next January and there’s Munster senior league in Fraher Field or an opening league game against one of the big guns, I’ll be back buzzing and excited for the 2020, just going to be a long 7 months waiting for that!

Highly recommend supporters watch the video, great watch.

mountgomery burns

Get rid of Jamie Barron.... Are ye ****ing insane

Spatters

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Get rid of Jamie Barron.... Are ye ****ing insane

Can’t get rid of a man of that quality but if he’s acting the maggot and not putting it in on the field, well he’s no use to you.

I have a feeling he’ll come good.

Stopitwillya

spideyman92 wrote: »

There goes the hope of Fanning stepping aside...
https://twitter.com/wlrfm/status/1137637958436229121?s=19

While the players deserve the criticism they are receiving for their lack of effort the biggest reason for our poor showing has been paraic fanning and his ridiculously negative tactics. The man has to go.

Christy Browne

_blaaz wrote: »

To best of my knowlege tom devine wont be back due to medical problems


Someone of his physical presence with alot of hurling is needed

“Medical problems” i.e. he’s a doctor out in Ardkeen. Goes to show how rumours spread like Chinese whispers :pac:

Deisegodeo

Christy Browne wrote: »

_blaaz wrote: »

To best of my knowlege tom devine wont be back due to medical problems


Someone of his physical presence with alot of hurling is needed

“Medical problems” i.e. he’s a doctor out in Ardkeen. Goes to show how rumours spread like Chinese whispers :pac:

He suffered a bad concussion in a club football game toward the end of 2018 I believe, he said it frightened him considerably, I would think that is the medical issue referred to.

But he said the main reason fot stepping away was his inability to committ fully to the hurling with his responsibilities in his job in ardkeen. We knew he would he a big loss at the time he stepped away, but I didn't think it would be so keenly felt. We really could do with him going forward, just what we lack - a ball winning forward with an eye for a score too.

Ri na hEireann

spideyman92 wrote: »

There goes the hope of Fanning stepping aside...
https://twitter.com/wlrfm/status/1137637958436229121?s=19

Another year lost if he stays on. We don’t need the sort of clear out people are claiming here, we need a good manager and some serious work on our forwards. All the issues can be fixed but another year of Fanning flapping about will be a disaster. We’ll probably see a few lads withdraw from the panel too and say what you want about that but the demands on youngfellas involved now are so great the least you can do is provide them with a leader.

deise08

I'll probably be berated for this, however,

The talk of the players not wanting the manager they have, the downing of tools, not wanting to play

Supporters are guilty of this too.

Whether he is first choice, tenth choice or last choice, he is the manager.

They, and we all need to back him. Row in with him, for as long as he is here.

United we stand, divided we fall.

Captain, my captain.

I'd be saying the same of any manager that is there.

Spatters

Stopitwillya wrote: »

While the players deserve the criticism they are receiving for their lack of effort the biggest reason for our poor showing has been paraic fanning and his ridiculously negative tactics. The man has to go.

Negative tactics?? This team doesn’t know anything else except negative tactics..
Hard to blame the manager if the so called leaders in the set up have decided to switch off. They scored 2-17 last night with a team of relative newbies whereas go back to the previous 2 games and they hardly scored 2-17 between them.
Im not saying fanning is the greatest manager of all time and there are certainly a lot of things he needs to get right on the mgmt side-:
Backroom team
Coaches
Selectors- people who are widely respected by players and supporters alike- breeds confidence into the setup.

But for me Players need to step up, play for their county jersey, work hard and treat it with respect irrespective of who is manager. Old values

upthedeise16

deise08 wrote: »

I'll probably be berated for this, however,

The talk of the players not wanting the manager they have, the downing of tools, not wanting to play

Supporters are guilty of this too.

Whether he is first choice, tenth choice or last choice, he is the manager.

They, and we all need to back him. Row in with him, for as long as he is here.

United we stand, divided we fall.

Captain, my captain.

I'd be saying the same of any manager that is there.

An intercounty career is short, if I was playing, I would want the best in place while I was playing. Not excusing for the lack of effort over the last few games which has been appalling but I agree with a previous poster that staying with Fanning may be another year wasted.

The management of the team has not been good this year tactically, there’s been no game plan to be seen clearly in all 4 games. For a simple example I pick midfield, I count Conor Gleeson, Kevin Moran, Jack Prendergast, Austin Gleeson, Mikey Kearney, Colin Dunford (a sub for a short period), Brian O’Halloran have partnered Barron at different stages and that doesn't include Brick in the league final. Barrons form hasn’t been up to scratch but I do feel the opinion that he has downed tools to be harsh. It was crazy to take him off against Clare and leave others equally as poor and poorer on. Against Tipp, I felt he was the one leader who helped drag Waterford back into the match and won massive frees and tried to inspire others with his body language but he ran out of steam. Fully agree he was poor against Limerick but I thought he showed flashes yesterday and certainly worked hard. A midfield partnership needs to be stable, look at Cork against Tipp when Cooper was out? For all the talent Fitzgibbon has, he needed his partner. Tipp now have McGrath and Breen, solid out and getting results. Limerick had Lynch and Donovan, Galway Burke and Coen, again very solid and winning All-Ireland’s. We had Barron and Moran, a top class midfield to rival anyone but this year we haven’t. Anyone who feels Barron should be dropped needs their head checked, we need a partner for him to build a team around.

Next part of the issues with the management, the players don’t look fit and their first touch has been deplorable so training hasn’t been up to scratch. Attitudes have been poor and the players don’t seem to want to play for him so man management hasn’t been good.
I don’t know Fanning so this isn’t personal, it’s an observation and I feel a change is needed.

SW1985

Ri na hEireann wrote: »

Another year lost if he stays on. We don’t need the sort of clear out people are claiming here, we need a good manager and some serious work on our forwards. All the issues can be fixed but another year of Fanning flapping about will be a disaster. We’ll probably see a few lads withdraw from the panel too and say what you want about that but the demands on youngfellas involved now are so great the least you can do is provide them with a leader.

I agree with this. People seem to forget these aren't professional athletes at times. It's tough to expect a crowd of lads to put in the almost ridiculous amount of work and sacrifice required these days if they dont believe in what they are being asked to do. What would drag you into the gym or onto training fields in the middle of winter if you knew it was just going to end in defeat due to crap management.

Stopitwillya

Spatters wrote: »

Stopitwillya wrote: »

While the players deserve the criticism they are receiving for their lack of effort the biggest reason for our poor showing has been paraic fanning and his ridiculously negative tactics. The man has to go.

Negative tactics?? This team doesn’t know anything else except negative tactics..
Hard to blame the manager if the so called leaders in the set up have decided to switch off.

Look at the picture Wlr shared at half time yesterday from high up in Pairc UI Caoimh with the scorelines. One Waterford forward inside the cork 45. Same at times (Maurice) with a gale versus Limerick and even at times in the first half versus Clare.
Are you really telling us that fanning as manager is not responsible for this.

Barron hasn’t been near his best this year but don’t see how this means he’s acting the maggot or downing tools? A lack of a midfield partner has been a bigger issue.

deise08

A great, well thought out post upthedeise.
Thanks for taking the time to write it and explain.

mountgomery burns

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Barron hasn’t been near his best this year but don’t see how this means he’s acting the maggot or downing tools? A lack of a midfield partner has been a bigger issue.

Up until the league final he was Waterfords best player. Even against Tipp, when the game was gone, he made a lung bursting run down the wing and tried to get the ball across goal for someone running in.

Even last night was on loads of ball, on another day could have had three points and I wonder what happened to his arm, likely feeling the effects of it. I agree, people stretching this not trying narrative way too far. Seems like in Waterford if you want your legacy to grow, just sit on the bench. Somebody will be raving about how good a minor you were...

hurler on de ditch

deise08 wrote: »

I'll probably be berated for this, however,

The talk of the players not wanting the manager they have, the downing of tools, not wanting to play

Supporters are guilty of this too.

Whether he is first choice, tenth choice or last choice, he is the manager.

They, and we all need to back him. Row in with him, for as long as he is here.

United we stand, divided we fall.

Captain, my captain.

I'd be saying the same of any manager that is there.

Stevie Wonder !

Spatters

Stopitwillya wrote: »

Look at the picture Wlr shared at half time yesterday from high up in Pairc UI Caoimh with the scorelines. One Waterford forward inside the cork 45. Same at times (Maurice) with a gale versus Limerick and even at times in the first half versus Clare.
Are you really telling us that fanning as manager is not responsible for this.

I see what you are saying but my point is if players don’t do what you instructed them to do, doesn’t matter who’s over them.
This team have played negative hurling for 5 yrs and now we expect them to be attacking after 8 months???

We have good players but it will take time to change the mindset.

Stopitwillya

Spatters wrote: »

Stopitwillya wrote: »

Look at the picture Wlr shared at half time yesterday from high up in Pairc UI Caoimh with the scorelines. One Waterford forward inside the cork 45. Same at times (Maurice) with a gale versus Limerick and even at times in the first half versus Clare.
Are you really telling us that fanning as manager is not responsible for this.

I see what you are saying but my point is if players don’t do what you instructed them to do, doesn’t matter who’s over them.
This team have played negative hurling for 5 yrs and now we expect them to be attacking after 8 months???

We have good players but it will take time to change the mindset.

Sorry don't agree. That's what the managers job is to do. Do they not do video analysis and give feedback to every player after each game.
Do you really think the corner forwards are drifting our towards midfield off their own back.
The reality is fanning has the same sort of tactics as Derek