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Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51
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That's a great post, but ye have some fantastic hurlers. What perhaps is against Waterford is that they didn't all come through together. It's just been a season of bad luck. I can't understand why ye would be so keen on ditching mcgrath. The way ye are talking, only winning an aif would be enough.
As a Galway man, I'm genuinely not too bothered about winning or losing. It's the performance and effort that are important. I wasn't despondent leaving croker two years ago after the semi final loss to tipp as galway played great. Tipp just shaded it. Such is life. Your final vanquishing of kk was a clash for the ages. Would have done me.
What forward of ours would another county look at look at and say if we had that player it would make a massive difference to our team. I could see another county look at Soky and say we're missing a keeper of that quality, of Connors that a guy like can do a man marking job like very few others and still mops up loads of loose ball back there, deBurcha, Darragh Fives, Jamie Barron, Kevin Moran. In the forwards Aussie is really the only one who's make a huge difference to other teams. And he's more of a defender playing in the forwards. Possibly the Brick too for what he offers, but again he's not exactly a scoring forward. And Mahony would be a huge addition for a team missing a free taker, but if they already had one he wouldn't be a game changer for a team (although I think he's massively underrated from play).
Now are forwards are still very good, but our match winning players are more in the backs / midfield than up front. To me looking at the chances we were creating for the last couple of years and the scores we were racking up, I thought we were doing exceptionally well.0 -
What forward of ours would another county look at look at and say if we had that player it would make a massive difference to our team. I could see another county look at Soky and say we're missing a keeper of that quality, of Connors that a guy like can do a man marking job like very few others and still mops up loads of loose ball back there, deBurcha, Darragh Fives, Jamie Barron, Kevin Moran. In the forwards Aussie is really the only one who's make a huge difference to other teams. And he's more of a defender playing in the forwards. Possibly the Brick too for what he offers, but again he's not exactly a scoring forward. And Mahony would be a huge addition for a team missing a free taker, but if they already had one he wouldn't be a game changer for a team (although I think he's massively underrated from play).
Now are forwards are still very good, but our match winning players are more in the backs / midfield than up front. To me looking at the chances we were creating for the last couple of years and the scores we were racking up, I thought we were doing exceptionally well.
I think Devine would be a great addition to nearly every other county, maybe bar Galway as they have a depth of physical ball winning forwards.0 -
It's not as simple as saying we played 15 vs 15 or with a sweeper. Things like the complete lack of a puck out strategy and defenders slapping ball blind up the field giving forwards no chance regardless of how we lined out is poor coaching of a team. That kind of stuff should be sorted out after 5 years.
The complete lack of depth in the panel that was shown up the last few weeks despite the abundance of hurlers currently in the county is also another problem. The league was thrown away and completely wasted in this regard, there was plenty of games to try lads out. Lots of posters have said that the players love Derek, I'd say 15 of them do but there's plenty others that are bound to be disillusioned with it at this stage. Dereks had a good lash off it and did alright, but fresh ideas are needed at this stage.
I think even Galway would struggle this ye if they were missing the numbers ye are.
Add in no game on home soil and ye were fighting a losing game from the off,0 -
Will we get a reverse of Limericks fixtures in the league next year in 1B ??
If so were travelling to Dublin and Laois with home games vs Offaly, Carlow and Galway0 -
Will we get a reverse of Limericks fixtures in the league next year in 1B ??
If so were travelling to Dublin and Laois with home games vs Offaly, Carlow and Galway
It's not that long ago we were in 1B, I presume we get s reverse of those fixtures and the reverse of the last time we played Galway and Dublin in the league (both away)0 -
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The complete lack of depth in the panel that was shown up the last few weeks despite the abundance of hurlers currently in the county is also another problem.
Genuine question - who are the fellas around the county who could have come in and filled the gaps in the backs, especially the full-back line, over the last three games?
I reckon 13 players have played in the backs at some stage over the last three weeks - Conor Gleeson, Austin Gleeson, Noel Connors, Philip Mahony, Ian Kenny, Shane McNulty, Barry Coughlan, Darragh Fives, Shane Fives, Kevin Moran, Colm Roche, Michael Walsh, Tadhg deBurca.
Beyond that we have Conor Prunty and Darragh Lyons injured and Kieran Bennett unavailable. Seamus Keating is on the panel but hasn't been given a run yet.0 -
liogairmhordain wrote: »Genuine question - who are the fellas around the county who could have come in and filled the gaps in the backs, especially the full-back line, over the last three games?
I reckon 13 players have played in the backs at some stage over the last three weeks - Conor Gleeson, Austin Gleeson, Noel Connors, Philip Mahony, Ian Kenny, Shane McNulty, Barry Coughlan, Darragh Fives, Shane Fives, Kevin Moran, Colm Roche, Michael Walsh, Tadhg deBurca.
Beyond that we have Conor Prunty and Darragh Lyons injured and Kieran Bennett unavailable. Seamus Keating is on the panel but hasn't been given a run yet.
Theres a chap -O' Sullivan I think from Ballygunner- played very well in the munster club championship in 2017- don't know if he wasn't picked or wasn't interested. Maybe other posters will know0 -
Theres a chap -O' Sullivan I think from Ballygunner- played very well in the munster club championship in 2017- don't know if he wasn't picked or wasn't interested. Maybe other posters will know
David o Sullivan turned down an invitation to join the panel a couple of years ago. Some people would feel Michael Harney and Willie hahessy should have been on the panel and given a chance to see how they do over last year or 2. Harney certainly seems like a decent prospect, albeit we have an abundance of half backs in Waterford0 -
While, overall, last Sunday in Limerick was a miserable experience, there was some consolation in the terrific victory of the county’s minors over Limerick, who had won their previous two games. For the second game in a row, Waterford hit 2-1 in injury time, but on this occasion it was not a case of them stealing a game in which they had mostly played second fiddle, as was the case against Tipperary.
Waterford dominated this game for the most part from start to finish, and should have been more than three points ahead at half time (0-10 to 0-7). They continued to dominate in the second half, but hit a series of bad wides which looked like being costly when Limerick struck for a goal in the 43rd minute which reduced Waterford’s lead to just one point. Limerick did manage to get on level terms twice afterwards, but despite many of their players being out on their feet, Waterford got back on top with the decisive injury-time scores producing a final scoreline which more accurately reflected the general trend of play during the game.
After the Clare game I complained of Waterford looking badly coached, reflected in poor decision-making, a lack of combined play, repeated hitting of blind pucks and lack of ability in the air. On Sunday Waterford looked like a different team, with excellent first touch and striking, some great catching in the air, and good hand and stick passing. The win over Tipperary clearly gave a great fillip to their confidence, but major credit is also due to the management team for this improvement.
A perennial problem with minor teams is that you never how individual players will perform, and what your best team layout is, until they are pitched into the white heat of championship action. The pressure is much greater this year, with the teams performing in the big stadiums in front of large crowds.
The Waterford mentors obviously learned a lot from the previous two games, with major restructuring of the team last Sunday compared with the team that started against Clare. Last Sunday’s starting team included three players who didn’t start against Clare while, of the other twelve, only two started in the same positions in both games – goalkeeper Dean Beecher and right half forward Ciarán Keating. The main switches included the move of Gavin Fives from corner to centre back, Michael Kiely (who went off injured early in the Clare game) from wing back and James Power from corner forward to midfield, and Cian Wadding from centre back to full back. All of these changes seemed to work very well.
An Rinn’s Caolán Mac Craith (who also impressed against Clare) was the star of the show with four points from play and one from a sideline cut. However, overall it was a great team effort. It was fantastic to see three players from An Rinn on the starting team (while quick to acknowledge that one of them is actually from Old Parish!).
Waterford need at least a draw against Cork next Sunday to secure a place in the Munster final. Cork have already been well beaten by Tipperary and Limerick, both of whom have lost to Waterford. They did beat Clare in Páirc Uí Chaoimh by four points in their first game, after Clare had a player sent off early in the second half. However, it is always impossible to draw lines of form at minor level, so Waterford will have to be at their best to make the final.
Another small bonus from last Sunday was the excellent performance of the Waterford team in the primary game played a half time during the senior game. In what was a one-sided affair, the Waterford lads showed great skill, confidence and teamwork. It was the best display in this game I have seen from Waterford since at least 2003, when a team led by Maurice Shanahan blew away the same opposition. It may be stretching it a bit to say two out of three ain’t bad, but on the basis of these two teams it would appear that the production line of good young hurlers in the county remains in good order. Congratulations to all concerned.0 -
Giveitfong wrote: »While, overall, last Sunday in Limerick was a miserable experience, there was some consolation in the terrific victory of the county’s minors over Limerick, who had won their previous two games. For the second game in a row, Waterford hit 2-1 in injury time, but on this occasion it was not a case of them stealing a game in which they had mostly played second fiddle, as was the case against Tipperary.
Waterford dominated this game for the most part from start to finish, and should have been more than three points ahead at half time (0-10 to 0-7). They continued to dominate in the second half, but hit a series of bad wides which looked like being costly when Limerick struck for a goal in the 43rd minute which reduced Waterford’s lead to just one point. Limerick did manage to get on level terms twice afterwards, but despite many of their players being out on their feet, Waterford got back on top with the decisive injury-time scores producing a final scoreline which more accurately reflected the general trend of play during the game.
After the Clare game I complained of Waterford looking badly coached, reflected in poor decision-making, a lack of combined play, repeated hitting of blind pucks and lack of ability in the air. On Sunday Waterford looked like a different team, with excellent first touch and striking, some great catching in the air, and good hand and stick passing. The win over Tipperary clearly gave a great fillip to their confidence, but major credit is also due to the management team for this improvement.
A perennial problem with minor teams is that you never how individual players will perform, and what your best team layout is, until they are pitched into the white heat of championship action. The pressure is much greater this year, with the teams performing in the big stadiums in front of large crowds.
The Waterford mentors obviously learned a lot from the previous two games, with major restructuring of the team last Sunday compared with the team that started against Clare. Last Sunday’s starting team included three players who didn’t start against Clare while, of the other twelve, only two started in the same positions in both games – goalkeeper Dean Beecher and right half forward Ciarán Keating. The main switches included the move of Gavin Fives from corner to centre back, Michael Kiely (who went off injured early in the Clare game) from wing back and James Power from corner forward to midfield, and Cian Wadding from centre back to full back. All of these changes seemed to work very well.
An Rinn’s Caolán Mac Craith (who also impressed against Clare) was the star of the show with four points from play and one from a sideline cut. However, overall it was a great team effort. It was fantastic to see three players from An Rinn on the starting team (while quick to acknowledge that one of them is actually from Old Parish!).
Waterford need at least a draw against Cork next Sunday to secure a place in the Munster final. Cork have already been well beaten by Tipperary and Limerick, both of whom have lost to Waterford. They did beat Clare in Páirc Uí Chaoimh by four points in their first game, after Clare had a player sent off early in the second half. However, it is always impossible to draw lines of form at minor level, so Waterford will have to be at their best to make the final.
Another small bonus from last Sunday was the excellent performance of the Waterford team in the primary game played a half time during the senior game. In what was a one-sided affair, the Waterford lads showed great skill, confidence and teamwork. It was the best display in this game I have seen from Waterford since at least 2003, when a team led by Maurice Shanahan blew away the same opposition. It may be stretching it a bit to say two out of three ain’t bad, but on the basis of these two teams it would appear that the production line of good young hurlers in the county remains in good order. Congratulations to all concerned.
Christ we’re really in trouble if the performance of a Primary Game team is exciting you about the future of hurling in the County.0 -
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what exactly is the format for the minor [under 17] this year?
in the event of 2 or more teams finishing on the same number of points, is it decided on head to head battles between them or is scoring difference the tiebreaker criteria.?
an amazing minor championship this years - all teams look extremely evenly matched and with real skillful hurlers0 -
supernova5 wrote: »what exactly is the format for the minor [under 17] this year?
in the event of 2 or more teams finishing on the same number of points, is it decided on head to head battles between them or is scoring difference the tiebreaker criteria.?
an amazing minor championship this years - all teams look extremely evenly matched and with real skillful hurlers
If 2 teams finish on the same points then it's h2h. If more than 2 teams finish on the same points then it's goes to point difference
Top 2 in Leinster and Munster into the prov final. Runners up in both go into a QF round robin with Galway with each team playing each other. Top 2 go through into the AI semi finals to play the Munster and Leinster champs
https://soundcloud.com/wlrfmwaterford/where-did-it-all-go-wrong-deise-senior-hurlers-bow-out-of-2018-season
Was going to get pretty heated, very good discussion0 -
supernova5 wrote: »what exactly is the format for the minor [under 17] this year?
in the event of 2 or more teams finishing on the same number of points, is it decided on head to head battles between them or is scoring difference the tiebreaker criteria.?
If two teams are on equal points then it is decided by the head to head. If more than two teams finish on the same points it's points difference.0 -
Well what’s another year.
I was sitting with 2 former players from the late 90’s in the Mackey stand and we were discussing before the game how we are going to setup. Both said they were happy with how we were lining out as per the program but my argument was if we did we would be on the back end of a bad trimming. Limerick got their man management off to a tee. You cannot have an Austin Gleeson at 50-60% fit sitting in the most important position on the field, you cannot have a 35 year old Brick Walsh man up with Gearoid Hegarty who can run 100 metres under 11 seconds (source: offtheball) you cannot play midget Roche in a half forward line if you’re going to be continuously pumping long high balls down. That type of game would suit Jake Dillion if you were to compare apples with apples. Derek made that change at the 50 minute mark when it was evident it was a problem at about the 10 minute mark. Another gripe of mine was the 2 subs at half time. Why wait till half time to make these decisions? If you know after 10/15/20/25 mins etc. that you have a problem then make the sub then.
Being honest we all can rant on about yesterday but the deciding factor lays deeper in all this. Take a step back and look what we’re facing pre and post the Clare game. A very valid point was raised by Daithi Regan yesterday and echoed by DMG to a lesser extent. Post Clare Game we had 5 of 7 of our AI final defenders gone. No team can sustain that whatsoever, in any code or any sport. Pre Clare game we had 8 week lead in time from the league to get setup for the Championship.2 weeks out we lose Gleeson and Mahoney to injury and within 40 min of the Clare game we have lost Fives, Connors, Coughlan and TDB. The whole 8 weeks has gone up in smoke, our game plan is gone up in smoke, our plan for the year have gone up in smoke and everything since January has gone up in smoke.
One thing that is clearly evident though in all this, the notion of us beating a team 15 on 15 has been put to bed. We simply don’t have the players and the myth that DMG has been holding us back has been exposed for the myth it always was.
I don't agree with the contention that we cannot play 15 v 15. Whilst no team plays orthodox 15/15 anymore, the notion that we cannot compete whilst playing in a more orthodox fashion is self-limiting. What suited us 2/3 years ago does not suit us now. An argument can be made that the younger up and coming hurlers we have now need coaching that the present management cannot deliver. One upside of the injuries is that guys like Foran and Roche have been given more game time than they would have otherwise had. Derek has implemented his system and it made us competitive but it has its limits. New players need to be introduced such as Harney and Hahessy - they should be judged on their hurling and not whether they can fit into one particular system. One of the best things about Waterford teams over the last few years is how hard the lads have worked for each other. I hope the lads can lift it again next Sunday, one last time this year. It would be great to finish up the year on a high.0 -
Giveitfong wrote: »
The Waterford mentors obviously learned a lot from the previous two games, with major restructuring of the team last Sunday compared with the team that started against Clare. Last Sunday’s starting team included three players who didn’t start against Clare while, of the other twelve, only two started in the same positions in both games – goalkeeper Dean Beecher and right half forward Ciarán Keating. The main switches included the move of Gavin Fives from corner to centre back, Michael Kiely (who went off injured early in the Clare game) from wing back and James Power from corner forward to midfield, and Cian Wadding from centre back to full back. All of these changes seemed to work very well.
The moving of Gavin Fives to CB has proven to be an inspired decision. Without meaning to pick on the lad I thought he was easily our worst player against Clare and was lucky to stay on at half time but on Sunday he was simply inspired with some fantastic fielding and distribution and MOTM for me. James Power also had a stormer in midfield and any time Caolán McCraith got the ball in his hands he had his marker in all sorts of trouble. Michael Kiely again proved unplayable when moved into the forwards. A great team effort overall and hopefully the lads can finish the job with a result on Sunday.0 -
Now that we’re out of the championship at this early stage I would imagine that more of the panel will join the Bennett’s stateside for the summer months. Surely they have been approached after last Sunday’s defeat. Hard to blame them if they do decide to go.0
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Now that we’re out of the championship at this early stage I would imagine that more of the panel will join the Bennett’s stateside for the summer months. Surely they have been approached after last Sunday’s defeat. Hard to blame them if they do decide to go.
Rule introduced this year that you can’t play intercounty championship and in the states in the same year, that’s why players have dropped off intercounty panels before playing any games. However New York often has different rules to Boston, San Fran etc so maybe you can play there.0 -
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They haven't even a decent lawnmower ,but as usual I don't blame them , I blame the people who put them in , shameful really ,Interesting article here from Tony Browne in the Examiner today. The County Board's lack of long term planning is really shocking when you think of how long everyone and their mother has been moaning about the absolute state of Walsh Park.0 -
to run the Waterford county board = to run a business that turns over 8-10million per annum. You need the same skillset and mentality.
Our lads wouldn't run a bath & victor meldrew as chairman is laughable, he is so out of touch with reality. He was outdated in the 1990s.
Until that is sorted with capable people it chokes our teams at all levels and grades. Point in case our facilities and our club championships. Farcical.0 -
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thesaturdayman wrote: »to run the Waterford county board = to run a business that turns over 8-10million per annum. You need the same skillset and mentality.
Ah, the oul' Michael-O'Leary-should-run-the-country canard. Whatever the failings of the County Board, the idea that it should be run like a business is ridiculous.0 -
Ah, the oul' Michael-O'Leary-should-run-the-country canard. Whatever the failings of the County Board, the idea that it should be run like a business is ridiculous.
Whatever about being run like a business, the very least needed is a bit of professionalism and competence, neither of which you could accuse the current CB of having.0 -
Whatever about being run like a business, the very least needed is a bit of professionalism and competence, neither of which you could accuse the current CB of having.
I'd dispute that assertion, for what my opinion is worth. The Minor team that has won back-to-back games in Limerick, one of which saw them storm from 12 points down against Tipp, a performance that would have been unthinkable a generation ago, didn't spring from the stones. The situation with the county grounds is unquestionably a mess and ultimately the responsibility is theirs, but there are many competing visions for how it should be sorted, of which Tony Browne's is but one of them. Kerry seem to be the only county in Munster who have never had problems with their county ground. Cusack Park is barely adequate, and manages the impossible by having worse toilet facilities than Walsh Park. The Gaelic Grounds needed to be bailed out by JP McManus and Semple Stadium needed to be bailed out by bringing a Visigoth army to Thurles to urinate in every garden in the town. As for Páirc Uí Chaoimh, Éamonn Murphy (no, not that one) had this to say about it in the Echo only this week:
https://twitter.com/EamonnMurphy19/status/1006292178350551040
So by all means, criticise the Waterford County Board for things they have and haven't done. But generalised statements that they are uniquely devoid of any bit of professionalism or competence are just not true.0 -
Virtually every county (throw in London and New York too) can host a championship match except Waterford ; this didn’t happen overnight so it’s not all down to the current county board. What is inexcusable, however, is how they rolled over with regard to the match venues this year.0
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Block 207 for Sunday for all those season ticket holders planning to go
Going to be a desperate crowd from Waterford Sunday but hopefully a few will so up for the minors and for bricks sake. Looks like to be his last game for us and what a way to go out been the most capped player in championship history. The man was a great servant to us and owes us nothing, we are really going to miss him0 -
Christ we’re really in trouble if the performance of a Primary Game team is exciting you about the future of hurling in the County.
As Boys are generally a year older finishing primary school now (many are U13) and the minor championship is U17 it have more significance as a marker than you might think!
When the Primary game started many years ago what was apparent to me was how far behind in terms of touch, decision making, tackling skill etc Waterford teams were in comparison with teams from other counties (particularly Tipp).
I was also struck on Sunday by the quality of those young hurlers and it made me think of the difference to 15 or so years ago.
The work going in at clubs and primary schools is the key - well done to all involved doing such a superb job0 -
hurler on de ditch wrote: »They haven't even a decent lawnmower ,but as usual I don't blame them , I blame the people who put them in , shameful really ,
I am far from a county board supporter, the mind boggles at some of the stuff they have come out with and up with.. but seen as you mention the people who have elected them.
Are you yourself a member of a GAA club? On the clubs committee? Putting yourself forward as an officer? Attending county board meetings?
It’s very easy to criticise from the stand and in the pubs. To make changes you need people doing these things.
Personally I think this mess goes back a lot further than this current county board but it comes down to years of neglect from board after board. Putting huge levy’s on clubs to pay off an enormous debt created as they were unable to manage their finances adequately. Apparently the clubs will be levied again to pay for the new stadium while not so long ago thanking the clubs who had been paying the levy and promising they would not be hit further. Interestingly some clubs saw how weak the county board can be and simply refused to pay the levy, were told there would be sanctions which never happened. Hard to see too many clubs paying the new levy when others got away without paying the last one.0 -
It's well and good looking to get rid of the county board but in reality very few want the job.hurler on de ditch wrote: »
They haven't even a decent lawnmower ,but as usual I don't blame them , I blame the people who put them in , shameful really ,Interesting article here from Tony Browne in the Examiner today. The County Board's lack of long term planning is really shocking when you think of how long everyone and their mother has been moaning about the absolute state of Walsh Park.0 -
It's well and good looking to get rid of the county board but in reality very few want the job.hurler on de ditch wrote: »
They haven't even a decent lawnmower ,but as usual I don't blame them , I blame the people who put them in , shameful really ,Interesting article here from Tony Browne in the Examiner today. The County Board's lack of long term planning is really shocking when you think of how long everyone and their mother has been moaning about the absolute state of Walsh Park.
What does our brilliant county secretary get paid per year?
I think on his wages you will find lots of more competent people who will want the job.0 -
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I'd dispute that assertion, for what my opinion is worth. The Minor team that has won back-to-back games in Limerick, one of which saw them storm from 12 points down against Tipp, a performance that would have been unthinkable a generation ago, didn't spring from the stones. The situation with the county grounds is unquestionably a mess and ultimately the responsibility is theirs, but there are many competing visions for how it should be sorted, of which Tony Browne's is but one of them. Kerry seem to be the only county in Munster who have never had problems with their county ground. Cusack Park is barely adequate, and manages the impossible by having worse toilet facilities than Walsh Park. The Gaelic Grounds needed to be bailed out by JP McManus and Semple Stadium needed to be bailed out by bringing a Visigoth army to Thurles to urinate in every garden in the town. As for Páirc Uí Chaoimh, Éamonn Murphy (no, not that one) had this to say about it in the Echo only this week:
https://twitter.com/EamonnMurphy19/status/1006292178350551040
So by all means, criticise the Waterford County Board for things they have and haven't done. But generalised statements that they are uniquely devoid of any bit of professionalism or competence are just not true.
Lets start with the following;
Jedward concert - loss making, inability to fundraise
Failed efforts at punchestown race which went to wexford gaa this year and made a bomb out of
Their inability to run a fixture list for 52 clubs in the county (most divisions in cork have almost double this number and half the amount of cronies on board)
Inability to implement or act on any of the findings in the county manage at the times report
Walsh Park Fraher field debacles - fair enough - why did we miss the boat on Carriganore though? are you aware of the back story here?
Levying clubs - most senior clubs have paid over 10k in levies to bail out the incompetent board, they have drained probably close on 250k-300k out of clubs pockets in Waterford in last 5 years, clubs have had to fundraise to support a badly run board needless to say at an opportunity cost to clubs own betterment and development.
Those are just off the top of my head, not general at all, infact very specific and pointed.
we had at different stages this year the following statements from our chairman;
Trumpeting Walsh parks ability to host championship games;
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2018/0109/931959-championship-hurling-set-to-return-to-walsh-park/
8 weeks later
http://www.gaa.ie/news-archive/news/waterford-munster-championship-games-moved-from-walsh-park/
this beauty sticks out
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/waterford-chairman-goal-line-technology-not-worth-the-cost-471494.html
particularly "On the performance of Galway whistler Alan Kelly and his officials, Ryan said: “No official or umpire went out on Sunday to do Waterford. We are disappointed we didn’t get the win and the two points. Things have happened that put teams out of the championship, this [call] didn’t put us out of the championship."
- in actual fact it did put us out (along with limerick Clare defeats) however if we had beaten tipp, we could still have qualified results depending against cork.
So excuse me for using the last 6 months as a prime example of incompetence & lack of professionalism at the highest echelons of Waterford GAA!!
These are the instances we know about, what about the ones we don't! Also re the county grounds, it needs to be highlighted that the current county board executives are broadly speaking in place 10-15-20 years plus! The chairman now, for example was chairman in 1996!!!0
This discussion has been closed.
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