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Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***
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Agree on lawlor he is very steady nothing flashy but he is composed.A few years in the set up will help him this is his first year and in such a pivotal position he has done well to date.He will make mistakes thats part of it but he'll learn from them.Another big test now against cork against harnedy he wont shy away anyway.0
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Anyone know if the Under 20's semi final against Galway will be shown on GAAGO or TG4? Can't find any information on it online.0
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I presume the cork match will be in thurles but with Bob Dylan coming to nowlan park on the sunday could the match be on Saturday evening?
On the cork match from 8-15 they will cause us huge trouble i dunno who we could put on horgan but fitzgibbon and these lads are serious hurlers but we'll have to go for broke now with our team selection.i hope lessons are learned from our season so far our half back line and midfield has being inconsistent with lots of chopping and changing.the only thing is they do look like having a few problems of the own in defence but weather we have enough in attack is another thing.0 -
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We don't have enough in attack to outscore Cork. Plus our backs are easily pulled out of shape. Cork will have a field day with us.brookville wrote: »I presume the cork match will be in thurles but with Bob Dylan coming to nowlan park on the sunday could the match be on Saturday evening?
On the cork match from 8-15 they will cause us huge trouble i dunno who we could put on horgan but fitzgibbon and these lads are serious hurlers but we'll have to go for broke now with our team selection.i hope lessons are learned from our season so far our half back line and midfield has being inconsistent with lots of chopping and changing.the only thing is they do look like having a few problems of the own in defence but weather we have enough in attack is another thing.
If and I expect us to do, lose another quarter final, that will be 3 years on the bounce. Other managers wouldn't last another year. Major overhaul of Senior management needed0 -
We don't have enough in attack to outscore Cork. Plus our backs are easily pulled out of shape. Cork will have a field day with us.
If and I expect us to do, lose another quarter final, that will be 3 years on the bounce. Other managers wouldn't last another year. Major overhaul of Senior management needed
Depends on fitness etc in the attack, I think our forwards did pretty well on Sunday especially in the first half, a fit Walter Walsh, TJ Reid and Adrian Mullen is a very good half forward line, throw in Richie Leahy, Colin Fennelly and then one of Liam Blanchfield, Billy Ryan, Ger Aylward or John Donnelly and we have players who can do damage against the Cork backline, bearing in mind that Cork are a much less defensive side team than Wexford.
I'll leave the discussion on management change until after the Cork match.0 -
A lot has been spoken of the positives and negatives from yesterday but it really boils down to the way we approach the game.
We have decent backs but being a decent back or a fine hurler counts for nothing in today's game unless you approach it in the right way.
What I mean by this is when our corner backs or half backs are coming out with the ball more often than not we play a high ball into our forwards. It may be diagonal but we still play a high ball in. This doesn't work anymore as there's generally a sweeper in there that makes a normal 50/50 ball into a 70/30 ball for the defence.
We don't have a gorta or larkin to flick or field.
Even though we have Walter and tj to balance this out it still is not an effective tactic.
The wing and corner forwards have to pull out to the wings in advance of a clearance from defence. This will eventually make a wing or corner back play a low ball out wide so a forward is out 1st and also pulling his player out.
We have to start playing this way.
How many times does Paul murphy et al or anyone else land high ball to the wings but by the time the ball comes down their spare player is there with the other back to mop things up.
It's ball crunching to see this time after time. We don't give ourselves a chance here.
It doesn't happen all the time but more often than not.0 -
Wexford had a lad miced up behind the goal telling fanning when and where to go with his pucks.also telling him when to take his time.felt like going down and getting in his ear.will be interesting if someone gets on his case in the semi.as it will be sold out he wont have the room behind the goal.going down killing momentum has been going on for years but with the head issue easier to do now with health and safety.0
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It's not for the want of trying or talent that's the issue its the tactics and decision making. The goal chance when a point should have been taken, the botched free, blanchfield or Billy Ryan instead of Murphy, Morrissey being left on O'connor and when he made the choice to foul do it earlier for the free not a penalty, dropping frees in instead of going for the posts. All these have contributed into points not being taken or costing points and they are adding up. There seems to be no organisation or any leaders on the field. I thought lawlor and mullen were excellent but what does cleere have to do to start and also young Tommy had a good league. For me Cody doesn't know his best team and the games more about physicality rather than work rate. Even the minors were dominated physically I think we honestly need to look in a new direction or risk being left behind. There is great potential with a fully fit panel and also the young lads coming through. And if Cody was to go you have a choice of shefflin, dj or even Eddie brennan0
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Wexford had a lad miced up behind the goal telling fanning when and where to go with his pucks.also telling him when to take his time.felt like going down and getting in his ear.will be interesting if someone gets on his case in the semi.as it will be sold out he wont have the room behind the goal.going down killing momentum has been going on for years but with the head issue easier to do now with health and safety.
I'm going to assume you were on the grassy knoll at Dallas in 1963. Because that is some conspiracy theory you have. I would have thought hitting double figures in wides was a bigger factor in losing0 -
Wexford had a lad miced up behind the goal telling fanning when and where to go with his pucks.also telling him when to take his time.felt like going down and getting in his ear.will be interesting if someone gets on his case in the semi.as it will be sold out he wont have the room behind the goal.going down killing momentum has been going on for years but with the head issue easier to do now with health and safety.
That went on the night below in Wexford park the umpires called over the ref about it.0 -
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We don't have enough in attack to outscore Cork. Plus our backs are easily pulled out of shape. Cork will have a field day with us.
If and I expect us to do, lose another quarter final, that will be 3 years on the bounce. Other managers wouldn't last another year. Major overhaul of Senior management needed
I think most supporters expected to see a bit of freshness added to the backroom team in practicalar this year.I hear alot of talk today about cody gone past it and overstaying his time but i dont think we'll go down that road of running lads out.What was extremely dissapointing was again our slowness to make a few changes.Cody cant be blamed for the 13 wides or scruff lobbing in them balls or morrissey taking o connor down inside the box but we're now entering our 6 championship match and we dont know our best team.i know we've being unlucky with injuries but there's no stability at all. just can't for the life of me see delaney or buckley coming into play against cork after such a long lay off and cork with all their pace up front.Id also have big worries over paul murphy id nearly put deegan back corner back or go back to tommy because alan cadigon will be similar to Whelan.
It's obvious richie is in serious trouble with his back which is a sorry way for him to finish up.
I know it's probably not the biggest secret in the world but i dont think its ideal when you see the team announced at 9 o clock friday and come on here and the changes on here an hour later.That person obviously has a source close to the camp and fair enough i just dont think its ideal.0 -
brookville wrote: »I think most supporters expected to see a bit of freshness added to the backroom team in practicalar this year.I hear alot of talk today about cody gone past it and overstaying his time but i dont think we'll go down that road of running lads out.What was extremely dissapointing was again our slowness to make a few changes.Cody cant be blamed for the 13 wides or scruff lobbing in them balls or morrissey taking o connor down inside the box but we're now entering our 6 championship match and we dont know our best team.i know we've being unlucky with injuries but there's no stability at all. just can't for the life of me see delaney or buckley coming into play against cork after such a long lay off and cork with all their pace up front.Id also have big worries over paul murphy id nearly put deegan back corner back or go back to tommy because alan cadigon will be similar to Whelan.
It's obvious richie is in serious trouble with his back which is a sorry way for him to finish up.
I know it's probably not the biggest secret in the world but i dont think its ideal when you see the team announced at 9 o clock friday and come on here and the changes on here an hour later.That person obviously has a source close to the camp and fair enough i just dont think its ideal.
Hopefully against Cork next day Cody changes things around, its only 2 weeks away. Lads like Morrissey, Fogarty and Deegan must be under pressure to hold on to there positions.
Murphy
D Mullen if not Deegan/Holden/ P Murphy - much of a muchness
Lawlor
Walsh
P Walsh
Delaney
Buckley/Cleere
Maher
Leahy/Buckley
Wally/Leahy
TJ
Mullen
R Hogan/ Billy Ryan
Colin Fenn
Ger Aylward/Blanchfield
Look i know a lot depends on injuries but by all accounts Buckley, Delaney and Darren Mullen are pushing hard. It would be a risk to start them all and Hogan but hopefully some of them can play. We cant rely on TJ to win every game
If we start with Alan Murphy, Conor Fogarty, Enda Morrissey we have no chance against Cork0 -
brookville wrote: »I think most supporters expected to see a bit of freshness added to the backroom team in practicalar this year.I hear alot of talk today about cody gone past it and overstaying his time but i dont think we'll go down that road of running lads out.What was extremely dissapointing was again our slowness to make a few changes.Cody cant be blamed for the 13 wides or scruff lobbing in them balls or morrissey taking o connor down inside the box but we're now entering our 6 championship match and we dont know our best team.i know we've being unlucky with injuries but there's no stability at all. just can't for the life of me see delaney or buckley coming into play against cork after such a long lay off and cork with all their pace up front.Id also have big worries over paul murphy id nearly put deegan back corner back or go back to tommy because alan cadigon will be similar to Whelan.
It's obvious richie is in serious trouble with his back which is a sorry way for him to finish up.
I know it's probably not the biggest secret in the world but i dont think its ideal when you see the team announced at 9 o clock friday and come on here and the changes on here an hour later.That person obviously has a source close to the camp and fair enough i just dont think its ideal.
Its certainly not ideal to see a player like C Buckley picked for last sunday on a team sheet when people knew he was not fit enough, also Tommy Walsh in my mind he was going well during the league what matches he played in the championship he seems to be gone now , we had a wing back last sunday that was taken off against Dublin at half time last sunday the man got awfull roasting. Our senior players are not going well you wonder what is going on men like Bill Sheehan were brought in did okay more than paid his way against Galway Bill Ryan the same way. Cody is the manager big year for him this year as the old saying you are only as good as the last game you manage or play lost two leinster finals back to back senior , minor.0 -
A few things stood out for me on Sunday;
Walter Walsh never has a good game against Wexford in the championship.
Colin Fennelly is not going to score goals in at full forward, I think he needs to rotate around.
Adrian Mullen is a very good find and should be a great player going forward.
We were leaderless when it came to the crunch part of the game and took very poor options for players who have been on the scene awhile.
Padraig Walsh was surprisingly poor and Hue Lawler has loads of potential.
We need a stronger Half forward and Half back lines to keep supply and stop supply to opposition.0 -
Some said 'I hear alot of talk today about cody gone past it and overstaying his time but i dont think we'll go down that road of running lads out.'
Cody is not going to step down by his own choice and that is the biggest problem. His treatment of Richie Hogan last Sunday was a disgrace. If Cody is not to go then Dempsey, McGarry and Lyng have to go. We are falling behind every year since 2015.
We have only beaten Dublin and Carlow in the championship, well beaten by Galway, drew and lost to Wexford.
As I have said in a previous post Hurling in Kilkenny needs a fresh approach and and massive overhaul is needed.
Malachy Clerkin had a stat on twitter on Sunday which shows where Kilkenny hurling has fallen
Wexford games v Kilkenny (Senior, U21 and minor) - 2003 to 2019.
2003 to 2012 - Kilkenny won 15, Wexford won 2
2013 to 2019 - Kilkenny won 6, Wexford won 7, one draw.
Enough said0 -
Looking in from the outside, the one thing I always found strange and it seems to be still happening here to some extent, is after the drawn game all the talk was about how much more Kilkenny could improve, but very little talk that Wexford didnt actually play particularly well that night and same thing is happening again here. I dont think Wexford played to the absolute best they can. Liam Ryan was poor and had a tough outing. Matt O Hanlon usually works a lot of the ball out of defence but was too caught up trying to keep TJ quiet (and failing for the most part). Kevin Foley had a lot of uncharacteristic blunders, Simon Donohoe gave away a very cheap 65, Morris scuffed a couple of simple enough chances. And so on. It's always easy to say you'll play better the next day, but the opposition could too. Whether Wexford improve or not is another thing, but I certainly believe they have scope to.
Another couple of factors, taking the draw game into account, is the lessons Wexford learned. Paudraig Walsh won MOTM in the drawn game. He was non existent this time around. Now you could say Dee O Keefe too was nullified and he was Wexfords best player the last day, but I actually think his role changed and the work he was doing was now being mainly done by Liam Og McGovern. The glaring one though was Morrisey on O Connor. Rory was on fire and nothing was done to quieten him. Even with a spare man back there, could have doubled up on him to some extent.
Why the frees at the end though were being dropped in was really odd. Very much heart in the mouth for us watching it, I've seen enough last minute Kilkenny goals kill us over the years, but there was more than enough time to hit points. It wasted a huge amount of time dropping the first one in, then the 65 on top of that. 2 minutes nearly eaten up over that when a pointed free would have put 2 in it and not wasted as much time.
Cody will have them fired up against Cork, but there needs to be serious positional and game awareness change too. He certainly doesnt like playing against tactical hurling.
Best of luck to both your minors and seniors as ye progress. They were 2 good close games on Sunday and from our perspective very enjoyable. It was 1970 since we last did that, so its about time we had one over ye after seeing so many go the other way!0 -
Looking in from the outside, the one thing I always found strange and it seems to be still happening here to some extent, is after the drawn game all the talk was about how much more Kilkenny could improve, but very little talk that Wexford didnt actually play particularly well that night and same thing is happening again here. I dont think Wexford played to the absolute best they can. Liam Ryan was poor and had a tough outing. Matt O Hanlon usually works a lot of the ball out of defence but was too caught up trying to keep TJ quiet (and failing for the most part). Kevin Foley had a lot of uncharacteristic blunders, Simon Donohoe gave away a very cheap 65, Morris scuffed a couple of simple enough chances. And so on. It's always easy to say you'll play better the next day, but the opposition could too. Whether Wexford improve or not is another thing, but I certainly believe they have scope to.
We were only worrying about ourselves I suppose and looking at where we could improve. We all knew it was 50 50 and it turned out it was really tight with wexford being the better team on the day and winning.
Without doubt this Wexford team has earned our respect and we know we are in for a massive battle against them. Incidentally hearing the talk from some tipp fans that seem to think they have an easier draw now, think they could get a huge fright against Dublin and I think it will be 50 50 against wexford as I think wexford will hound Tipperary forwards.
On Kevin Foley, he seems very poor to me, not sure they are uncharacteristic mistakes, Shaun Murphy is more dynamic in the free role I think, Foleys touch isn't great, can pick a score alright though.0 -
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brookville wrote: »I think most supporters expected to see a bit of freshness added to the backroom team in practicalar this year.I hear alot of talk today about cody gone past it and overstaying his time but i dont think we'll go down that road of running lads out.What was extremely dissapointing was again our slowness to make a few changes.Cody cant be blamed for the 13 wides or scruff lobbing in them balls or morrissey taking o connor down inside the box but we're now entering our 6 championship match and we dont know our best team.i know we've being unlucky with injuries but there's no stability at all. just can't for the life of me see delaney or buckley coming into play against cork after such a long lay off and cork with all their pace up front.Id also have big worries over paul murphy id nearly put deegan back corner back or go back to tommy because alan cadigon will be similar to Whelan.
It's obvious richie is in serious trouble with his back which is a sorry way for him to finish up.
I know it's probably not the biggest secret in the world but i dont think its ideal when you see the team announced at 9 o clock friday and come on here and the changes on here an hour later.That person obviously has a source close to the camp and fair enough i just dont think its ideal.
Hopefully against Cork next day Cody changes things around, its only 2 weeks away. Lads like Morrissey, Fogarty and Deegan must be under pressure to hold on to there positions.
Murphy
D Mullen if not Deegan/Holden/ P Murphy - much of a muchness
Lawlor
Walsh
P Walsh
Delaney
Buckley/Cleere
Maher
Leahy/Buckley
Wally/Leahy
TJ
Mullen
R Hogan/ Billy Ryan
Colin Fenn
Ger Aylward/Blanchfield
Look i know a lot depends on injuries but by all accounts Buckley, Delaney and Darren Mullen are pushing hard. It would be a risk to start them all and Hogan but hopefully some of them can play. We cant rely on TJ to win every game
If we start with Alan Murphy, Conor Fogarty, Enda Morrissey we have no chance against Corkbrookville wrote: »I think most supporters expected to see a bit of freshness added to the backroom team in practicalar this year.I hear alot of talk today about cody gone past it and overstaying his time but i dont think we'll go down that road of running lads out.What was extremely dissapointing was again our slowness to make a few changes.Cody cant be blamed for the 13 wides or scruff lobbing in them balls or morrissey taking o connor down inside the box but we're now entering our 6 championship match and we dont know our best team.i know we've being unlucky with injuries but there's no stability at all. just can't for the life of me see delaney or buckley coming into play against cork after such a long lay off and cork with all their pace up front.Id also have big worries over paul murphy id nearly put deegan back corner back or go back to tommy because alan cadigon will be similar to Whelan.
It's obvious richie is in serious trouble with his back which is a sorry way for him to finish up.
I know it's probably not the biggest secret in the world but i dont think its ideal when you see the team announced at 9 o clock friday and come on here and the changes on here an hour later.That person obviously has a source close to the camp and fair enough i just dont think its ideal.
Hopefully against Cork next day Cody changes things around, its only 2 weeks away. Lads like Morrissey, Fogarty and Deegan must be under pressure to hold on to there positions.
Murphy
D Mullen if not Deegan/Holden/ P Murphy - much of a muchness
Lawlor
Walsh
P Walsh
Delaney
Buckley/Cleere
Maher
Leahy/Buckley
Wally/Leahy
TJ
Mullen
R Hogan/ Billy Ryan
Colin Fenn
Ger Aylward/Blanchfield
Look i know a lot depends on injuries but by all accounts Buckley, Delaney and Darren Mullen are pushing hard. It would be a risk to start them all and Hogan but hopefully some of them can play. We cant rely on TJ to win every game
If we start with Alan Murphy, Conor Fogarty, Enda Morrissey we have no chance against Cork
If we start Ger Aylward it will be same he is just not up to senior hurling fulstop .....he has absolutely no skill what so ever time to move on0 -
#droppingball wrote: »We were only worrying about ourselves I suppose and looking at where we could improve. We all knew it was 50 50 and it turned out it was really tight with wexford being the better team on the day and winning.
Without doubt this Wexford team has earned our respect and we know we are in for a massive battle against them. Incidentally hearing the talk from some tipp fans that seem to think they have an easier draw now, think they could get a huge fright against Dublin and I think it will be 50 50 against wexford as I think wexford will hound Tipperary forwards.
On Kevin Foley, he seems very poor to me, not sure they are uncharacteristic mistakes, Shaun Murphy is more dynamic in the free role I think, Foleys touch isn't great, can pick a score alright though.
I much prefer Foley as the sweeper, yes he was at fault for a goal in the drawn game and at least a point Sunday, but Murphy was much more sloppy on the ball and not as effective with his distribution. Kevin seems to have a few brainfarts or a lazy approach to the ball from time to time. once he is on it, he is usually effective with it.
I'd have no fear with Tipperary. Limerick gave them a right beating so they will be hurting, but there is no reason to fear them. they have their own issues and losses to their side that makes them vulnerable. Happy that many are considering them on the easy side. And as you say, Dublin, provided they get over Laois first, will not lie down easy either.0 -
Quarter finals to be a double header in Croke Park with Kilkenny v Cork/Westmeath at 2pm and Tipperary v Dublin/Laois at 4pm Sunday July 14th0
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Big open spaces will suit cork more then us. Paul Murphy will be under serious pressure. Hard to imagine Darren Mullen doing any worse than what’s out there at the minute. It didn’t take Adrian long to adapt to, he was our go to man last Sunday. Also I think Colin should stay at 14 set up the goals vs Dublin, scored 1 against Carlow, set up 1 vs Galway and Wexford and should have scored one inde final. He’s also getting fouled a lot and setting up scores and finally playing good hurling consistently. He seems to be isolated a lot in there tho, him Adrian and tj all link up very well together. I also heard Wally wasn’t near fit Sunday. Personally I’ve seen enough of Ger for this year anyway.0
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The problem for the Kilkenny forwards, is the lack of good quality ball going into them. TJ and Adrian Mullen are good in the air. Wally for a big man doesn't win enough high ball which is strange. Another problem is that Paul Murphy gets on the ball a lot. He is a dreadful distributor of the ball. Ditto Forgarty0
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My team if all fit
1.eoin
2.paul murphy
3.huw
4.joey
5.padraig
6.cillian
7.deegan
8.leahy
9.maher
10.tj
11 wally
12.adrian
13.ger
14.colin
15.richie .0 -
Big open spaces will suit cork more then us. Paul Murphy will be under serious pressure. Hard to imagine Darren Mullen doing any worse than what’s out there at the minute. It didn’t take Adrian long to adapt to, he was our go to man last Sunday. Also I think Colin should stay at 14 set up the goals vs Dublin, scored 1 against Carlow, set up 1 vs Galway and Wexford and should have scored one inde final. He’s also getting fouled a lot and setting up scores and finally playing good hurling consistently. He seems to be isolated a lot in there tho, him Adrian and tj all link up very well together. I also heard Wally wasn’t near fit Sunday. Personally I’ve seen enough of Ger for this year anyway.
Agreed - I would like to see Darren Mullen included as an option in the backs - he is very good to distribute the ball but doubt if he will be included the next day. It is unbelievable the amount of chances Ger has had at this stage.0 -
takeyourpoint wrote: »Big open spaces will suit cork more then us. Paul Murphy will be under serious pressure. Hard to imagine Darren Mullen doing any worse than what’s out there at the minute. It didn’t take Adrian long to adapt to, he was our go to man last Sunday. Also I think Colin should stay at 14 set up the goals vs Dublin, scored 1 against Carlow, set up 1 vs Galway and Wexford and should have scored one inde final. He’s also getting fouled a lot and setting up scores and finally playing good hurling consistently. He seems to be isolated a lot in there tho, him Adrian and tj all link up very well together. I also heard Wally wasn’t near fit Sunday. Personally I’ve seen enough of Ger for this year anyway.
Agreed - I would like to see Darren Mullen included as an option in the backs - he is very good to distribute the ball but doubt if he will be included the next day. It is unbelievable the amount of chances Ger has had at this stage.
Yes Darren Mullen is a seriously intelligent hurler. Very rarely wastes ball and I think he should start ahead of Paul Murphy or Enda Morissey.
Changes have to be made in the backs for Cork. More pace needed in a couple of areas.0 -
Odd really that most agree that our backs need changing yet no changes there on Sunday when clearly a number were sinking. Strange that management don't see the need. The only ones I'd retain if we had Buckley and Delaney back would be Lawlor, Holden and P Walsh. The rest are struggling badly and have been for a while.0
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I think everyone agrees that our distribution and movement from our forwards needs to be better. This has been blindly obvious for a few years now, yet Cody hasn't done a thing to change it. You don't have to be an All Star forward to move around and create space. It's obviously not been coached and encouraged by the management team.
The way Ballyhale played the All Ireland club final, should be the blueprint for Kilkenny hurling.0
This discussion has been closed.
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