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Match Thread: Pro14 Final - Leinster v Scarlets, Saturday 26th, 2018. Sky Sports, TG4

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    #362
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    awec wrote: »
    Well there's obviously a very healthy budget to be able to produce so many players and be able to afford to keep them all.

    It’s the same budget Ulster get, funny that isn’t it.


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    #363
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,369 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    stephen_n wrote: »
    It’s the same budget Ulster get, funny that isn’t it.
    No it isn't.


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    #364
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,600 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Former Former wrote: »
    Eh?? A hundred grand?? For a guy who won't be a starter? Not even close, I would have thought

    Like prawn sambo, I heard it was around 10k per game. There was a point when I think SOB was signing Leinster rather than Ireland deals because Leinster plus appearance fees was more than central.


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    #365
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    awec wrote: »
    No it isn't.

    It absolutely is. Same across the three provinces and I believe Connacht are getting close.


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    #366
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,021 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    It absolutely is. Same across the three provinces and I believe Connacht are getting close.
    Yeah. The only difference would be sponsorship deals and other income like gate receipts.


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    #367
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,329 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Yeah. The only difference would be sponsorship deals and other income like gate receipts.

    And the central contracts...

    I highly doubt that Ulster's total wage bill is comparable to Leinster's


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    #368
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    And the central contracts...

    I highly doubt that Ulster's total wage bill is comparable to Leinster's

    Right, but a central contract doesn't come anywhere near a province's budget


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    #369
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,021 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Right, but a central contract doesn't come anywhere near a province's budget
    And there's a double edged sword with centrally contracted players. They have to be replaced duing international windows which puts more pressure on the wage bill. Usually with a mixture of academy and NIQ players. And although academy players are on tiny money, they do get appearance money for each selection. It's not comparable obviously to having to pay senior players, but it would be a significant enough chunk of the budget all the same.


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    #370
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Right, but a central contract doesn't come anywhere near a province's budget

    Yeah, but to be fair central contracts have a big impact on budgets. The money we get from the IRFU may be the same as Ulster, but we don't have to worry about spending it on the senior squad in the same way. There isn't much point at looking at the money in without considering the money out.

    But now that I find myself agreeing with awec I need to counter it in some way.....

    I don't feel too sorry for Ulster as their lack of development is what is helping to create the gap as it is.


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    #371
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Yeah, but to be fair central contracts have a big impact on budgets. The money we get from the IRFU may be the same as Ulster, but we don't have to worry about spending it on the senior squad in the same way. There isn't much point at looking at the money in without considering the money out.

    But now that I find myself agreeing with awec I need to counter it in some way.....

    I don't feel too sorry for Ulster as their lack of development is what is helping to create the gap as it is.

    Well there's a lot that comes along with having centrally contracted players. Those contracts are the entire reason we used 55 players.

    We're not talking about the difference between Leinster and Ulster though. Or central contracts. Awec just wanted to make that point, its off topic.

    We're talking about the difference between Irish provinces and Welsh sides.

    Welsh sides have access to NDCs. So central contracts are a red herring.

    Again, Welsh rugby have the exact same revenue streams that we do. They are the captains of their own demise.


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    #372
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Well there's a lot that comes along with having centrally contracted players. Those contracts are the entire reason we used 55 players.

    We're not talking about the difference between Leinster and Ulster though. Or central contracts. Awec just wanted to make that point, its off topic.

    We're talking about the difference between Irish provinces and Welsh sides.

    Welsh sides have access to NDCs. So central contracts are a red herring.

    Again, Welsh rugby have the exact same revenue streams that we do. They are the captains of their own demise.

    To a degree I agree with you there. We do get more in Ireland generally from sponsorship and bums on seats provincially, whereas they get more bums on seats at international level. We get more in terms of prize money too. That isn't a huge difference I'm sure, but it is a difference.

    They also have their stadium debt, which I think is crazy really. When they should have been investing in the game when it went pro, they were instead investing in their stadium. And that's left them way behind in terms of the professional game now. So yeah, they have dug themselves into that position. over the last 20 years.


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    #373
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,369 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    molloyjh wrote: »
    To a degree I agree with you there. We do get more in Ireland generally from sponsorship and bums on seats provincially, whereas they get more bums on seats at international level. We get more in terms of prize money too. That isn't a huge difference I'm sure, but it is a difference.

    They also have their stadium debt, which I think is crazy really. When they should have been investing in the game when it went pro, they were instead investing in their stadium. And that's left them way behind in terms of the professional game now. So yeah, they have dug themselves into that position. over the last 20 years.
    Irish rugby is no stranger to stadium debt.


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    #374
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    molloyjh wrote: »
    To a degree I agree with you there. We do get more in Ireland generally from sponsorship and bums on seats provincially, whereas they get more bums on seats at international level. We get more in terms of prize money too. That isn't a huge difference I'm sure, but it is a difference.

    They also have their stadium debt, which I think is crazy really. When they should have been investing in the game when it went pro, they were instead investing in their stadium. And that's left them way behind in terms of the professional game now. So yeah, they have dug themselves into that position. over the last 20 years.

    They have the same revenue streams.

    They will never be the same of course, but they are from the same sources. And a huge portion of it (TV revenue) is shared between the two unions.


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    #375
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    awec wrote: »
    Irish rugby is no stranger to stadium debt.

    Of the magnitude of MS? And that is central to how they manage the entire financial element of the sport in the country?


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    #376
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,021 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Of the magnitude of MS? And that is central to how they manage the entire financial element of the sport in the country?
    Is that not almost completely paid off now? A couple of years ago, I think I remember it being in the region of £10 million. Surely that would be pretty much gone by now.


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    #377
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Is that not almost completely paid off now? A couple of years ago, I think I remember it being in the region of £10 million. Surely that would be pretty much gone by now.

    No idea tbh, but they've spent the last 20 odd years paying that off instead of investing fully in the structures and players in the professional game. The weight of revenue that has gone towards that compared to where it could/should have gone is pretty significant. And it led to the regions being comparatively under funded and needing outside help to stay afloat.


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    #378
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,021 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    molloyjh wrote: »
    No idea tbh, but they've spent the last 20 odd years paying that off instead of investing fully in the structures and players in the professional game. The weight of revenue that has gone towards that compared to where it could/should have gone is pretty significant. And it led to the regions being comparatively under funded and needing outside help to stay afloat.
    Yeah. Maybe that's why we're now seeing all those Welsh players moving back and around the regions. And the WRU being able to take over the Dragons.


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