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Match Thread: Pro14 Final - Leinster v Scarlets, Saturday 26th, 2018. Sky Sports, TG4

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    Probably posted a dozen times already but how important was the Lowe try and the decision to go for the corner? Most teams would have taken three points with the clock red, but Leinster have been doing this a lot this season. 21-11 at halftime put a very different slant on things.

    On a related note, Cronin's throwing has been ultra-reliable this year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,985 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Probably posted a dozen times already but how important was the Lowe try and the decision to go for the corner? Most teams would have taken three points with the clock red, but Leinster have been doing this a lot this season. 21-11 at halftime put a very different slant on things.

    On a related note, Cronin's throwing has been ultra-reliable this year.
    His throw for his own try was as wobbly as feck. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,897 ✭✭✭Rigor Mortis


    Just watched that back.

    Toner was phenomenal. Ayn other day and he'd have had a good shout of man of the match.

    Lowe still has defensive problems but god he is incredible

    Sexton played brilliantly but the reaction to the hit was nuts. I know he gets targetted but that really wasnt all that bad of a hit.

    Scarlets just play lovely rugby


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Enjoyed the game .... no doubt Leinster are a formidable and well coached team.

    Best team in Europe .... no argument with that either.

    However they got a lot of help from the (very poor) officials yesterday.

    1) Lost count of the number of forward passes. [The pop from RK to JS referred to earlier on this thread was dubious too .... only seen it once mind]. Had a wry smile hearing the TV commentator referring to Leinster's flat passing game ...... forward passing is more accurate. [Makes getting over the gain line a tad easier].

    2) Persistent offside from the kick chasers either from JS but especially from LM. [Don't understand why the touch judges are not policing this part of the game].

    3) Some crooked line-outs ...... one of them roughly on half-way was laughable.

    4) Finally ........ looks like any bump on JS seems to be greeted with hysteria by the Dublin masses. Getting beyond a joke. JS asking for the TV replay was bad form too. [The referee should have had a word with him there].

    As for the venue choice ... I've got no issue with it.

    Anyway moan over .... summer tours here we go .....

    Well you could say from a Leinster perspective that they were poor, letting the Scarlets players flop over rucks and slow the ball down. Or clearing out 3m beyond rucks. The lineouts were a mess, Berry would tell Scarlets to open the gap, Samson lee would stand in the middle of the channel and he would do nothing about it.

    The hit on Sexton was shoulder to the head and was a yellow card, there was no dipping from Sexton, nothing to change where he would hit. It was a deliberate high hit. Scarlets did exactly what was suggested yesterday, with consistent late hits on Sexton. You claim poor officiating, well not protecting Sexton was top of the list.


  • Registered Users Posts: 853 ✭✭✭foxyladyxx


    stephen_n wrote: »
    Well you could say from a Leinster perspective that they were poor, letting the Scarlets players flop over rucks and slow the ball down. Or clearing out 3m beyond rucks. The lineouts were a mess, Berry would tell Scarlets to open the gap, Samson lee would stand in the middle of the channel and he would do nothing about it.

    The hit on Sexton was shoulder to the head and was a yellow card, there was no dipping from Sexton, nothing to change where he would hit. It was a deliberate high hit. Scarlets did exactly what was suggested yesterday, with consistent late hits on Sexton. You claim poor officiating, well not protecting Sexton was top of the list.

    For sure . I saw some late challenges on Sexton [some almost off the ball] / .I think the one mentioned above was just the last straw for Sexton having taken so many knocks to the head area.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,329 ✭✭✭Dave_The_Sheep


    foxyladyxx wrote: »
    For sure . I saw some late challenges on Sexton [some almost off the ball] / .I think the one mentioned above was just the last straw for Sexton having taken so many knocks to the head area.

    I thought the initial challenge was fine, but the secondary player coming in was shoulder to head. I think a lot of (Welsh) people think the penalty was for the former rather than the latter.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I thought the initial challenge was fine, but the secondary player coming in was shoulder to head. I think a lot of (Welsh) people think the penalty was for the former rather than the latter.

    The penalty was for the former. The TMO briefly mentioned the latter but named Scarlets 7 as the offender (who I think at least was the initial tackler).


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,985 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    The penalty was for the former. The TMO briefly mentioned the latter but named Scarlets 7 as the offender (who I think at least was the initial tackler).
    Scott Williams was the first tackler I thought?


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Scarlets 7 was James Davies, who was the player coming in 2nd. Scott Williams was the tackler

    However I thought the ref was talking about Williams and the TMO mentioned Davies but the ref was more interested in the first challenge.

    I've no real problem with the decision. It was marginally high. Williams got a little unlucky. That's about that for me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,985 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Scarlets 7 was James Davies, who was the player coming in 2nd. Scott Williams was the tackler

    However I thought the ref was talking about Williams and the TMO mentioned Davies but the ref was more interested in the first challenge.

    I've no real problem with the decision. It was marginally high. Williams got a little unlucky. That's about that for me.
    I thought the new tackle laws (introduced last season) stipulated that a tackle that starts below the line of the shoulders but slips up is treated the same as if it had initially made contact with the head.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,174 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Bit bitter of Pivac to be trying to use Leinster's "big budget" as a reason as to why they've been successful whilst highlighting that Scarlets have to develop local players.

    12 of Leinster's starting side came through their underage set up with Nacewa and Lowe being the only non-Irish players and neither of them were very high profile signings. Scarlets had 3 foreign players in their starting line up, none high profile signings either.

    There are legitimate advantages that Leinster possess over their rivals but trying to make Leinster out to be a big budget team whose success is reliant on that is disingenuous.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Scarlets 7 was James Davies, who was the player coming in 2nd. Scott Williams was the tackler

    However I thought the ref was talking about Williams and the TMO mentioned Davies but the ref was more interested in the first challenge.

    I've no real problem with the decision. It was marginally high. Williams got a little unlucky. That's about that for me.

    Ah ok, got that one wrong so.

    There was almost no conversation about the second tackler, it was a bit of an odd discussion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,912 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Enjoyed the game .... no doubt Leinster are a formidable and well coached team.

    Best team in Europe .... no argument with that either.

    However they got a lot of help from the (very poor) officials yesterday.

    1) Lost count of the number of forward passes. [The pop from RK to JS referred to earlier on this thread was dubious too .... only seen it once mind]. Had a wry smile hearing the TV commentator referring to Leinster's flat passing game ...... forward passing is more accurate. [Makes getting over the gain line a tad easier].

    2) Persistent offside from the kick chasers either from JS but especially from LM. [Don't understand why the touch judges are not policing this part of the game].

    3) Some crooked line-outs ...... one of them roughly on half-way was laughable.

    4) Finally ........ looks like any bump on JS seems to be greeted with hysteria by the Dublin masses. Getting beyond a joke. JS asking for the TV replay was bad form too. [The referee should have had a word with him there].

    As for the venue choice ... I've got no issue with it.

    Anyway moan over .... summer tours here we go .....

    Predictable but your anguish sustains me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Enjoyed the game .... no doubt Leinster are a formidable and well coached team.

    Best team in Europe .... no argument with that either.

    However they got a lot of help from the (very poor) officials yesterday.

    1) Lost count of the number of forward passes. [The pop from RK to JS referred to earlier on this thread was dubious too .... only seen it once mind]. Had a wry smile hearing the TV commentator referring to Leinster's flat passing game ...... forward passing is more accurate. [Makes getting over the gain line a tad easier].

    2) Persistent offside from the kick chasers either from JS but especially from LM. [Don't understand why the touch judges are not policing this part of the game].

    3) Some crooked line-outs ...... one of them roughly on half-way was laughable.

    4) Finally ........ looks like any bump on JS seems to be greeted with hysteria by the Dublin masses. Getting beyond a joke. JS asking for the TV replay was bad form too. [The referee should have had a word with him there].

    As for the venue choice ... I've got no issue with it.

    Anyway moan over .... summer tours here we go .....

    I have to admit to finding this post amusing. No mention I see of the forward pass for the first Scarlets try. No mention of Scarlets being ahead of Patchell at almost every restart, making it easier to regain possession there. No mention of Scarlets players consistently falling onto the Leinster side at ruck time to slow down the ball. No mention of the consistent lack of gap in the line out. No mention of the legit high tackle. No mention of the fact that Sexton was captain, and as a part of his job he has to communicate with the ref and question stuff.

    I don't rate Berry as a ref. He was poor in the RDS against Munster and poor on Saturday too. He seems to let a hell of a lot of stuff go across numerous areas. But he was bad for both sides and both sides had to contend with that. There's no point whinging about it when it affected everyone out there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Squatter


    molloyjh wrote: »

    I don't rate Berry as a ref. He was poor in the RDS against Munster and poor on Saturday too. He seems to let a hell of a lot of stuff go across numerous areas. But he was bad for both sides and both sides had to contend with that. There's no point whinging about it when it affected everyone out there.

    Yep.

    Fortunately, in rugby bad refs mainly affect one's enjoyment of the game rather than affecting the result.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Squatter wrote: »
    Yep.

    Fortunately, in rugby bad refs mainly affect one's enjoyment of the game rather than affecting the result.

    Only if you allow it to. I had an uncle behind me going mad over the obstruction of our kick chasers. But that happens in every game, all the time. So get over it and move on. Sure, make a bit of noise when something is missed or whatever, but forget about and move on then. There's no point letting something you have no control over ruin your enjoyment of a game.

    Berry wasn't great, but he wasn't so bad as to spoil the contest. Like the ads say, if the fun stops, stop. What's the point in going to games if not to enjoy them?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Only if you allow it to. I had an uncle behind me going mad over the obstruction of our kick chasers. But that happens in every game, all the time. So get over it and move on. Sure, make a bit of noise when something is missed or whatever, but forget about and move on then. There's no point letting something you have no control over ruin your enjoyment of a game.

    Berry wasn't great, but he wasn't so bad as to spoil the contest. Like the ads say, if the fun stops, stop. What's the point in going to games if not to enjoy them?

    I agree though it's probably easier to do when your team ultimately win. Regardless, Leinster were a lot better than Scarlets. The score was much closer than the match was and the ref played little part in that. Scarlets showed up but Leinster outclassed them in most facets of the game.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,515 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    Highlight of the match for me.

    Williams gives his scummy high hit on Johnny, then goads him as words are exchanged while J10 is getting treatment.

    Sexton responds by a peach of a kick to the corner immediately followed by a try.

    Perfect message.

    Also a great moment that was missed by most but Sexton was standing guard at a ruck and words were being said to Williams who was the tackled player. I am sure they were complimentary :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Venjur wrote: »
    I agree though it's probably easier to do when your team ultimately win. Regardless, Leinster were a lot better than Scarlets. The score was much closer than the match was and the ref played little part in that. Scarlets showed up but Leinster outclassed them in most facets of the game.

    There have been very few games that I've seen where the ref ultimately dictated the result in any way. And that's about the only scenario I'd allow an officials performance to wind me up. Generally after games we lose it's the performance of our own guys I'd focus on, because more often than not a loss is down to us being the inferior team on the day.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Squatter


    molloyjh wrote: »
    There have been very few games that I've seen where the ref ultimately dictated the result in any way. And that's about the only scenario I'd allow an officials performance to wind me up. Generally after games we lose it's the performance of our own guys I'd focus on, because more often than not a loss is down to us being the inferior team on the day.

    The Saffie ref. that we had for the away game in Edinboro' definitely made a significant contribution to us losing that game. (Although to be fair, some of our defending that night was at what you might describe as Matt O'Connor levels!)


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    molloyjh wrote: »
    There have been very few games that I've seen where the ref ultimately dictated the result in any way. And that's about the only scenario I'd allow an officials performance to wind me up. Generally after games we lose it's the performance of our own guys I'd focus on, because more often than not a loss is down to us being the inferior team on the day.

    The 2nd and 3rd Lions tests should have gone to the AB's imo and Sco v Aus in the WC come to mind but it's rare enough to be something obvious at least.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭PhlegmyMoses


    Highlight of the match for me.

    Williams gives his scummy high hit on Johnny, then goads him as words are exchanged while J10 is getting treatment.

    Sexton responds by a peach of a kick to the corner immediately followed by a try.

    Perfect message.

    Also a great moment that was missed by most but Sexton was standing guard at a ruck and words were being said to Williams who was the tackled player. I am sure they were complimentary :pac:

    Just before the Cronin try after that wonder kick, the pack were sauntering down the pitch to the lineout and Big Dev was roaring at them to get a score and kill the game off the whole way doiwn. Got the crowd going on my side and was a rarely seen side from Dev. He was pumped!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,897 ✭✭✭Rigor Mortis


    Venjur wrote: »
    The 2nd and 3rd Lions tests should have gone to the AB's imo and Sco v Aus in the WC come to mind but it's rare enough to be something obvious at least.

    Generally though that means the ref made a bad decision in the last two minutes, when there is no coming back from it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,117 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Generally though that means the ref made a bad decision in the last two minutes, when there is no coming back from it.

    Wayne Barnes pinging Ferris v Wales in 2012


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,897 ✭✭✭Rigor Mortis


    I'm just amazed no one (Awec) hasn't mentioned Garces sending off Payne v Saracens in 2014. I refuse to believe that he has been forgiven


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Generally though that means the ref made a bad decision in the last two minutes, when there is no coming back from it.

    Even at that, there's 78 other minutes in a game. If you need a decision to go your way in the last 2 mins to win the game then you've no real right to claim you should have won it. Maybe if it was a genuinely really close game between 2 evenly matched teams, then there might be cause for complaint, but not much. A dodgy red card decision or something along those lines would be more understandable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Squatter


    I'm just amazed no one (Awec) hasn't mentioned Garces sending off Payne v Saracens in 2014. I refuse to believe that he has been forgiven

    Unfortunately for Payne and Ulster that was the flavour of the month red card at the time! The new directive was still hot off the press and every ref was just longing for an opportunity to apply it as soon as he got any opportunity!


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,999 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    For all the complaining, Leinster conceded 13 penalties in total in the SF and Final with Berry reffing. The majority of those were perfectly fair. So obviously kept largely on the correct side of him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    For all the complaining, Leinster conceded 13 penalties in total in the SF and Final with Berry reffing. The majority of those were perfectly fair. So obviously kept largely on the correct side of him.

    I think most of the complaining is him not penalising things though, he has a very hands off approach.


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  • Administrators Posts: 53,336 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I'm just amazed no one (Awec) hasn't mentioned Garces sending off Payne v Saracens in 2014. I refuse to believe that he has been forgiven
    I reckon that red card cost us a heineken cup.


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