Match Thread: Pro14 Final - Leinster v Scarlets, Saturday 26th, 2018. Sky Sports, TG4

Burkie1203

Welsh fans still moaning Bout the final being in Aviva.

connemara man

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Welsh fans still moaning Bout the final being in Aviva.

I forgot the first rule of Twitter today. Don't interact with Welsh fans

.ak

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Highlight of the match for me.

Williams gives his scummy high hit on Johnny, then goads him as words are exchanged while J10 is getting treatment.

Sexton responds by a peach of a kick to the corner immediately followed by a try.

Perfect message.

Also a great moment that was missed by most but Sexton was standing guard at a ruck and words were being said to Williams who was the tackled player. I am sure they were complimentary :pac:

Also in the 2nd half Williams tried to jam around a ruck and Sexton just absolutely flung him to the ground with a thud, got a big reaction from the west stand, like he was putting him in his place :pac:

Buer

.ak wrote: »

Also in the 2nd half Williams tried to jam around a ruck and Sexton just absolutely flung him to the ground with a thud, got a big reaction from the west stand, like he was putting him in his place :pac:

Quite reminiscent of the 2009 D'Arcy try, Sexton gave him a right earful whilst he was on the ground. Sky Sports did some analysis on Sexton's play in the first half which included him being hit late multiple times. It was almost certainly a pre-planned tactic to rough him up.

Which backfired impressively.

molloyjh

Buer wrote: »

Quite reminiscent of the 2009 D'Arcy try, Sexton gave him a right earful whilst he was on the ground. Sky Sports did some analysis on Sexton's play in the first half which included him being hit late multiple times. It was almost certainly a pre-planned tactic to rough him up.

Which backfired impressively.

Some day soon teams will learn that it's very, very difficult to put Sexton off using these tactics. The only times it's ever worked has been when it has led to injury and he simply wasn't able to stay on the pitch. I get you want to put big players under pressure, especially 10s, but surely the risk-reward in targeting Sexton like that simply isn't worth it when you consider the number of penalties and cards you could end up giving up?

errlloyd

molloyjh wrote: »

Some day soon teams will learn that it's very, very difficult to put Sexton off using these tactics. The only times it's ever worked has been when it has led to injury and he simply wasn't able to stay on the pitch. I get you want to put big players under pressure, especially 10s, but surely the risk-reward in targeting Sexton like that simply isn't worth it when you consider the number of penalties and cards you could end up giving up?

I've always liked rugby being a game where really wanting to win makes a huge difference. In soccer you can overplay; try too hard. In Rugby you're in this constant battle against exhaustion, and the motivation to get back up, get in the line, and make the next hit is hugely important. The other risk is that cheap shots can motivate the opposition. Furlong put in an absolutely huge hit on Williams not long after that incident. Completely dominant.

When Larmour scored I knew we had won the game, not just because we had a big lead, but because when Larmour scored there was no one home. Halfpenny was around the 10 metre on the other side the pitch! It just seemed like the fight had gone out of Scarlets at that point. Leinster had been losing the fight 5 minutes earlier, Williams hit Sexton and we had two tries very quickly.

arsebiscuits1

Question I actually forgot about until rewatching. May have been answered previously in the thread.

When Shingler made the big break off Beirnes offload from his intercept (the one where Shinglergot injured) surely Beirne was offside initially?

Dev caught the ball from the lineout, Beirne landed on the wrong side. Maul was formed and therefore so was the offside line So when Dev popped the ball to Luke Beirne caught it in an offside position no?

Buer

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Dev caught the ball from the lineout, Beirne landed on the wrong side. Maul was formed and therefore so was the offside line So when Dev popped the ball to Luke Beirne caught it in an offside position no?

Toner would be doing well to pop it into the air to the scrum half if a maul had formed!

molloyjh

errlloyd wrote: »

I've always liked rugby being a game where really wanting to win makes a huge difference. In soccer you can overplay; try too hard. In Rugby you're in this constant battle against exhaustion, and the motivation to get back up, get in the line, and make the next hit is hugely important. The other risk is that cheap shots can motivate the opposition. Furlong put in an absolutely huge hit on Williams not long after that incident. Completely dominant.

When Larmour scored I knew we had won the game, not just because we had a big lead, but because when Larmour scored there was no one home. Halfpenny was around the 10 metre on the other side the pitch! It just seemed like the fight had gone out of Scarlets at that point. Leinster had been losing the fight 5 minutes earlier, Williams hit Sexton and we had two tries very quickly.

I was sure we we going to win before Isa even went off. We were up for it. I was asked before the game who I thought would win and my answer was that if Leinster had managed to recover and didn't have fatigue as a factor, they would win without doubt. The only doubt I had was over our fitness. And we showed in that opening quarter that we were up for the fight and we were physically in a good place. Even when they went ahead I wasn't worried. We were dominant from the off.

arsebiscuits1

Buer wrote: »

Toner would be doing well to pop it into the air to the scrum half if a maul had formed!

Took the liberty of looking back at it. https://ok.ru/video/1459932760593?fromTime=2472

You only need 1 player bound from each side and the ball carrier to form a maul. Would be pretty easy to pop it out if only one player was bound on

Scarlets were definetely bound and driving. Conan was kind of bound as was Ruddock but probably a bit of a stretch to call it a maul. So technically it was open play and Beirne was onside.

However he's clearly been thrown accross the gap and continued on his merry way into our territory and should have been penalised.

Poor call. Didn't affect the game so much just that moment stood out and as I had wondered what the hell had happeend

Squatter

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Poor call. Didn't affect the game so much just that moment stood out and as I had wondered what the hell had happened

Me too. Nice to have it explained to my satisfaction, thanks!

prawnsambo

Leinster recognising the work of the Sky Sports cameraman.

The records being referred to are the attendance record, the fact that Sean Cronin is the first player to sccore a try iin three different finals, Johnny McNicholl getting a hat trick in a final and Jordan Larmour being the youngest to score a try in a final.

Squatter

prawnsambo wrote: »

Leinster recognising the work of the Sky Sports cameraman.

The records being referred to are the attendance record, the fact that Sean Cronin is the first player to sccore a try iin three different finals, Johnny McNicholl getting a hat trick in a final and Jordan Larmour being the youngest to score a try in a final.

Not forgetting the first ever Celtic League/Pro 14 final to be reffed by a South African! :P

Webbs

Buer wrote: »

Bit bitter of Pivac to be trying to use Leinster's "big budget" as a reason as to why they've been successful whilst highlighting that Scarlets have to develop local players.

12 of Leinster's starting side came through their underage set up with Nacewa and Lowe being the only non-Irish players and neither of them were very high profile signings. Scarlets had 3 foreign players in their starting line up, none high profile signings either.

There are legitimate advantages that Leinster possess over their rivals but trying to make Leinster out to be a big budget team whose success is reliant on that is disingenuous.

But what he said was true no? Leinster do have a bigger budget than Scarlets.

It is obviously one of many reasons why Leinster are better. Its why Man City are better than Everton for example, you could use any pro sport and the more money the more success. Its not bitter its more likely a call to the WRU to invest more if they can.
Figures show Welsh Regions get around 5.5m euro playing budget each, whereas the Irish regions share a pot in excess of 40m euro (not all playing budget obviously) and Leinster would certainly be getting more than 25% of that 40m (been suggested Leinster have around 8m euro as playing budget?)

Also beggars the question what the hell are the French and English doing with all their cash as they get loads more than anyone (that is more to do with player management though am sure)

irishbucsfan

Webbs wrote: »

But what he said was true no? Leinster do have a bigger budget than Scarlets.

It is obviously one of many reasons why Leinster are better. Its why Man City are better than Everton for example, you could use any pro sport and the more money the more success. Its not bitter its more likely a call to the WRU to invest more if they can.
Figures show Welsh Regions get around 5.5m euro playing budget each, whereas the Irish regions share a pot in excess of 40m euro (not all playing budget obviously) and Leinster would certainly be getting more than 25% of that 40m.

He said that Scarlets would never be able to use 55 players in a Pro 14 season.

According to Opta, Ospreys used 56 players this season. Scarlets used 53. Dragons used 62. Cardiff used 50.

And the vast majority of the players Leinster used were local guys on small contracts.

But even if it was true that the gap was as large as some Welsh outlets would have you believe (which requires extremely suspect and uneven accounting), the IRFU and WRU get almost the exact same revenue streams. If there is a difference, it's entirely of Welsh Rugby's own creation. So rather than moaning about it, they should finally do something about it. Of course the media will continue to sell this story, but the answer does not lie anywhere else.

Interested Observer

There's a pretty clear insinuation when Pivac is talking about budgets, that Leinster have bought success. The few signings certainly have helped but this is a home grown team.

awec

Well there's obviously a very healthy budget to be able to produce so many players and be able to afford to keep them all.

Interested Observer

awec wrote: »

Well there's obviously a very healthy budget to be able to produce so many players and be able to afford to keep them all.

Stop trolling.

awec

Interested Observer wrote: »

Stop trolling.

It's not money that's making you lose Carbery or Murphy.

arsebiscuits1

My favourite part of Pivacs budget little club comments are that Beirne took a pay cut to come to Munster :pac:

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

Well there's obviously a very healthy budget to be able to produce so many players and be able to afford to keep them all.

Healthy budget is probably exactly the words I'd use to describe it.

We don't actually keep all of them. Lads like Madigan and Moore have left for big deals elsewhere. But generally when guys get to the point where foreign clubs with money become an issue, the IRFU step in to help with central deals.

All of this is possible in Wales. The same money is available if they'd only choose to use it. And in recent times they've been doing well to bring guys back and keep others. They have just taken a long time to get there.

errlloyd

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

My favourite part of Pivacs budget little club comments are that Beirne took a pay cut to come to Munster :pac:

I've seen this said, but this surely can't be true. He was on a two year deal from when he went to Scarlets, which was presumably peanuts because it was sign or retire. They perhaps offered him more to stay than Munster offered him, but probably not once he rakes in a hundred grand worth of appearance fees for Ireland

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Healthy budget is probably exactly the words I'd use to describe it.

We don't actually keep all of them. Lads like Madigan and Moore have left for big deals elsewhere. But generally when guys get to the point where foreign clubs with money become an issue, the IRFU step in to help with central deals.

All of this is possible in Wales. The same money is available if they'd only choose to use it. And in recent times they've been doing well to bring guys back and keep others. They have just taken a long time to get there.

Is there really the same money there though? Between attendances, merchandising, sponsorship and prize money there is surely a differential there. How much I couldn't guess. The WRU aren't forking out the same way as the IRFU are obviously, but it's not the only source of difference.

errlloyd

errlloyd wrote: »

I've seen this said, but this surely can't be true. He was on a two year deal from when he went to Scarlets, which was presumably peanuts because it was sign or retire. They perhaps offered him more to stay than Munster offered him, but probably not once he rakes in a hundred grand worth of appearance fees for Ireland

Apparently a stag came to him in his dream and told him it was his destiny to play for Munster.

Former Former

errlloyd wrote: »

I've seen this said, but this surely can't be true. He was on a two year deal from when he went to Scarlets, which was presumably peanuts because it was sign or retire. They perhaps offered him more to stay than Munster offered him, but probably not once he rakes in a hundred grand worth of appearance fees for Ireland

Eh?? A hundred grand?? For a guy who won't be a starter? Not even close, I would have thought

prawnsambo

Former Former wrote: »

Eh?? A hundred grand?? For a guy who won't be a starter? Not even close, I would have thought

I can't remember where I heard it, but the figure of ten grand per appearance was what players got who weren't under a central contract. And afaik, that means selection in a match day 23.

pickarooney

Brian Byrne has never been in an Irish 23

Buer

Former Former wrote: »

Eh?? A hundred grand?? For a guy who won't be a starter? Not even close, I would have thought

It's easy to spot an Irish rugby player out and about. They're the ones driving gold plated rocket cars and spilling their champagne as they dash to get the chopper home from training.

crisco10

pickarooney wrote: »

Brian Byrne has never been in an Irish 23

Nevermind, missed the irleand bit

Squatter

Some recent info on Irish Squad bonuses, courtesy of Terry Ghornley of the Irish Pines:-

"..the Irish squad could earn themselves an additional bonus of around €15,000 per man should they complete a fifth win from five games, on top of the bonus of up to €60,000 they’ve already accrued for winning the 2018 Six Nations.

.....................

As part of their policy of retaining their players in the provincial system, players contracts are incentivised and so they receive roughly a third of the prize money which goes the way of the IRFU. This is based on appearances in the 23-man matchday squad, meaning that those players who have been regulars throughout the five-game campaign are already in line for a bonus of around €60,000 per player, or €12,000 per game, which would rise to €75,000 per player should they complete a Grand Slam."