Tommy Robinson jailed

FTA69

As sh*t as Robinson is though, there’s a reason people are being drawn to the far-right though and it’s not mass stupidity. The broad left in Europe basically threw working class people on the scrapheap for years and now have little or no credibility and have offered no hope. Robinson, Le Pen et al are those who’ll fill the gap.

dr.fuzzenstein

FTA69 wrote: »

As sh*t as Robinson is though, there’s a reason people are being drawn to the far-right though and it’s not mass stupidity. The broad left in Europe basically threw working class people on the scrapheap for years and now have little or no credibility and have offered no hope. Robinson, Le Pen et al are those who’ll fill the gap.

I do believe though that it is a manufactured "crisis".
The rise of fascism in the 30's was due to genuinely hard times. It was easy for grifters and bullies to sell snake oil to the desperate masses.
What is the emergency today?
The people who scream the loudest about their plight, what is their actual suffering?
Most have a job, a house, a car and enough left over to enjoy life a bit.
They are now being told that they somehow are victims and they are losing out due to (whatever scapegoats).
No one in Europe has what can be described as a terrible life.
But it is apparent that appealing to people's greed, stupidity and sense of victimhood always works.
Especially when there's someone to hate.
Humans truly are very base beings. Scrape away the thin sheen of civilisation and you find vicious apes beneath.
Why else is it so easy to appeal to people's base instincts.

ohnonotgmail

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I do believe though that it is a manufactured "crisis".
The rise of fascism in the 30's was due to genuinely hard times. It was easy for grifters and bullies to sell snake oil to the desperate masses.
What is the emergency today?
The people who scream the loudest about their plight, what is their actual suffering?
Most have a job, a house, a car and enough left over to enjoy life a bit.
They are now being told that they somehow are victims and they are losing out due to (whatever scapegoats).
No one in Europe has what can be described as a terrible life.
But it is apparent that appealing to people's greed, stupidity and sense of victimhood always works.
Especially when there's someone to hate.
Humans truly are very base beings. Scrape away thematic thin sheen of civilisation and you find vicious apes beneath.
Why else is it so easy to appeal to people's base instincts.

with some there is no need for any scraping at all.

FTA69

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I do believe though that it is a manufactured "crisis".
The rise of fascism in the 30's was due to genuinely hard times. It was easy for grifters and bullies to sell snake oil to the desperate masses.
What is the emergency today?
The people who scream the loudest about their plight, what is their actual suffering?
Most have a job, a house, a car and enough left over to enjoy life a bit.
They are now being told that they somehow are victims and they are losing out due to (whatever scapegoats).
No one in Europe has what can be described as a terrible life.
But it is apparent that appealing to people's greed, stupidity and sense of victimhood always works.
Especially when there's someone to hate.
Humans truly are very base beings. Scrape away the thin sheen of civilisation and you find vicious apes beneath.
Why else is it so easy to appeal to people's base instincts.

This is the sort of attitude that leads to the rise of the far right really. Try spinning that line to someone in Barnsley or Grimsby working on a zero hours contract for minimum wage in some warehouse, either him or friends and family reliant on food banks and no real prospects with crumbling public services. All this in a community where once there were decent paid industrial jobs and a community that had pride in itself.

Things are actually sh*te for increasing numbers of people. Stagnating wages, precarious contracts, unaffordable housing, crap jobs and worse public services. Until people wake up to the fact that swathes of the population are being failed badly, the left will never really success.

You’re shouting “things are grand” to groups of people who are utterly devoid of hope and whose communities have been destroyed.

donkeykong5

mcmoustache wrote: »

declan2693 wrote: »

You tell em retardo

Why does a fraudster who hangs out with pedos appeal to you? Personally, I have no time for people like that and most people would be the same but clearly, there's something about that makes you react differently.

I'm just curious about what that is.

I repeat look up the song /video by Australian artist Steve mannix. It says it all.

kowloon

What has happened over this Panorama thing? Has it aired, has TRs video been released?

El_Duderino 09

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

FTA69 wrote: »

As sh*t as Robinson is though, there’s a reason people are being drawn to the far-right though and it’s not mass stupidity. The broad left in Europe basically threw working class people on the scrapheap for years and now have little or no credibility and have offered no hope. Robinson, Le Pen et al are those who’ll fill the gap.

I do believe though that it is a manufactured "crisis".
The rise of fascism in the 30's was due to genuinely hard times. It was easy for grifters and bullies to sell snake oil to the desperate masses.
What is the emergency today?
The people who scream the loudest about their plight, what is their actual suffering?
Most have a job, a house, a car and enough left over to enjoy life a bit.
They are now being told that they somehow are victims and they are losing out due to (whatever scapegoats).
No one in Europe has what can be described as a terrible life.
But it is apparent that appealing to people's greed, stupidity and sense of victimhood always works.
Especially when there's someone to hate.
Humans truly are very base beings. Scrape away the thin sheen of civilisation and you find vicious apes beneath.
Why else is it so easy to appeal to people's base instincts.

I completely agree there’s a reason people listen to him. There’s always an inequality at the heart of the reason why people protest.

The working class aren’t doing as well as they should be. There’s plenty of money going around but it’s being fumbled increasingly to the wealthy. The idea of blaming ‘the left’ really bugs me because it’s the neoliberal policies which are causing trouble for the working class.

The gig economy, pensions, lack of trade unions and collective bargaining, job uncertainty, wage stagnation. Those are real issues. These people are completely right to protest. But the problem is they’re blaming the wrong things. They’re angry and TR and the likes are channeling that anger to suit himself.

Billy86

FTA69 wrote: »

As sh*t as Robinson is though, there’s a reason people are being drawn to the far-right though and it’s not mass stupidity. The broad left in Europe basically threw working class people on the scrapheap for years and now have little or no credibility and have offered no hope. Robinson, Le Pen et al are those who’ll fill the gap.

That theory, while often claimed by supporters of Tommy, Brexit, etc doesn't hold up to any scrutiny though, as the Conservatives have been in power in the UK for over about a full decade now, and it's not as if Tommy Robinson is throwing out economic plans as to how to better their situation or tackle the problems in their regions created by Margaret Thatcher, and later kicked into overdrive under David Cameron in an effort to kickstart the economy in the early 2010s.

For many of them, as has been evidenced by posters like donkeykong and declan2693 in their efforts to ignore the pedophiles in the EDL, it really does have absolutely nothing to do with children being taken advantage of at all, and absolutely everything to do with vilifying minorities in order to feel better about themselves or superior (which explains why the EDL pedophiles cannot be even acknowledged by them, as it would damage the myth in their heads).

Any Tommy Robinson supporter who is actually worried about the children and the lack of effort being put into uncovering any of it, by default cannot be a Tommy Robinson supporter as they would be horrified by what happened to children in the group Tommy created, and Tommy's lack of effort put into uncover any of it (after, that is, he stopped outright defending these pedophiles).

dr.fuzzenstein

FTA69 wrote: »

This is the sort of attitude that leads to the rise of the far right really. Try spinning that line to someone in Barnsley or Grimsby working on a zero hours contract for minimum wage in some warehouse, either him or friends and family reliant on food banks and no real prospects with crumbling public services. All this in a community where once there were decent paid industrial jobs and a community that had pride in itself.

Things are actually sh*te for increasing numbers of people. Stagnating wages, precarious contracts, unaffordable housing, crap jobs and worse public services. Until people wake up to the fact that swathes of the population are being failed badly, the left will never really success.

You’re shouting “things are grand” to groups of people who are utterly devoid of hope and whose communities have been destroyed.

OK, I accept that. There is inequality and money is flowing to the top. No argument there. The wage gap between CEO and workers is obscene.
What still remains a mystery to me, is why people then turn to extremeist nutters or vote for a disasterous course of action like Brexit that will invariably make things worse for them.
It's never worked for anybody, I can't think of a single case where a right-wing (or left wing, for that matter) extremist governemnt took over and things improved.
Maybe for the short term, Germany did well initially under Hitler, but that was because the economy was artificially pumped up by completely reckless, unsustainable and irresponsible borrowing and spending. In fact, Germany had to go to war because the money stolen from the Jews wasn't enough to keep the country afloat. So other countries had to be invaded and robbed.

Anyone wo says they have all the answers and an easy solution is lying.
Every single one of them.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I completely agree there’s a reason people listen to him. There’s always an inequality at the heart of the reason why people protest.

The working class aren’t doing as well as they should be. There’s plenty of money going around but it’s being fumbled increasingly to the wealthy. The idea of blaming ‘the left’ really bugs me because it’s the neoliberal policies which are causing trouble for the working class.

The gig economy, pensions, lack of trade unions and collective bargaining, job uncertainty, wage stagnation. Those are real issues. These people are completely right to protest. But the problem is they’re blaming the wrong things. They’re angry and TR and the likes are channeling that anger to suit himself.

Again, I will never understand why.
People love snake charmers and conmen because they appeal to their desire for the magic fix. It's easy, quick and doesn't require any thought. You just put a guy in charge who bangs the table and says "just follow me and all will be good"
Figuring out what the real problem is, fielding political representatives or lobbying existing ones and using the established political process seems to be too much bother for most.
Yep, democracy is hard. And sadly easily exploited by people who say "don't you worry your pretty little head, I'll take care of things for you"

FTA69

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I completely agree there’s a reason people listen to him. There’s always an inequality at the heart of the reason why people protest.

The working class aren’t doing as well as they should be. There’s plenty of money going around but it’s being fumbled increasingly to the wealthy. The idea of blaming ‘the left’ really bugs me because it’s the neoliberal policies which are causing trouble for the working class.

The gig economy, pensions, lack of trade unions and collective bargaining, job uncertainty, wage stagnation. Those are real issues. These people are completely right to protest. But the problem is they’re blaming the wrong things. They’re angry and TR and the likes are channeling that anger to suit himself.

Absolutely no argument with most of what you’re saying. They’re blaming the wrong people. When I say the left f*cked up I mean 1) Blair presided over neo-liberalism for years and took working class voters from granted and 2) across Europe the left were complicit in the system and offered no real alternative bar “that’s your lot now” and some socially progressive stuff on minorities that didn’t address economic inequality.

When the broad left like Labour in the UK can offer a radical departure it’ll gain traction, but unfortunately we’re now combatting twenty years of anger that has built up toward that party in working class areas and having a majority of MPs who are snakey careerist bastards doesn’t help at all.

I think a lot of people turn to xenophobia because it’s a simple explanation. No jobs? Foreigners took them. NHS is in ruins? Health tourism innit. No housing? I blame the EU. The left has been poor enough at putting forward a grander vision that addresses the root cause of these.

Also I’m not at all suggesting that racism isn’t a powerful force in society, it is. The UK is built on it and that’s always a vein we have to deal with.

El_Duderino 09

FTA69 wrote: »

Absolutely no argument with most of what you’re saying. They’re blaming the wrong people. When I say the left f*cked up I mean 1) Blair presided over neo-liberalism for years and took working class voters from granted and 2) across Europe the left were complicit in the system and offered no real alternative bar “that’s your lot now” and some socially progressive stuff on minorities that didn’t address economic inequality.

When the broad left like Labour in the UK can offer a radical departure it’ll gain traction, but unfortunately we’re now combatting twenty years of anger that has built up toward that party in working class areas and having a majority of MPs who are snakey careerist bastards doesn’t help at all.

I think a lot of people turn to xenophobia because it’s a simple explanation. No jobs? Foreigners took them. NHS is in ruins? Health tourism innit. No housing? I blame the EU. The left has been poor enough at putting forward a grander vision that addresses the root cause of these.

Also I’m not at all suggesting that racism isn’t a powerful force in society, it is. The UK is built on it and that’s always a vein we have to deal with.

I agree with most of that. But the centre ground in the uk is very far to the right in terms of what can be done in some areas. Remember the fuss about Ed milliband’s 50p tax rate? It was an extra 5% on wealthy people’s earnings and they went baloobas over it. And apart from that they can’t even mention taxing wealth or they’re viewed as communists. The UK needs to tax wealth and fund its public services. That would actually improve the lives of TR supporters.

I agree about the blame on foreigners and brown people. The key thing is to pitch the message at the target market. TR supporters aren’t watching Questions Time. They get their news from social media. TR and Donald Trump are both very good at replacing details with emotion in their speech.

The more detail in an argument the more it can be disputed. If you use emotion instead of argument, you can get to the people who don’t want to think, but do feel angry.

rgossip30

Odhinn wrote: »

Nobody going to address the above.....?

This could be one the reasons he left the EDL . I know he did state that he found it had become too extremist .

rgossip30

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Shhh...

Not a one liner but one word and it's not even in the dictionary.

rgossip30

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't think it bothers them. They're just trying to circumvent accusations of racism as it gives people a legitimate excuse to ignore the fake news and conspiracies people like Yaxley-Lennon spread.

Can you give examples for your statement .l
Looks like you cannot .

El_Duderino 09

rgossip30 wrote: »

Odhinn wrote: »

Nobody going to address the above.....?

This could be one the reasons he left the EDL . I know he did state that he found it had become too extremist .

Why so shy talking about it then? He’s not shy when the pedo is brown and Muslim.

mcmoustache

rgossip30 wrote: »

This could be one the reasons he left the EDL . I know he did state that he found it had become too extremist .

That's correct. He said that he was concerned about the "dangers of far-right extremism". The group containing an alarming number of pedos doesn't seem to have been a problem for him, however.

El_Duderino 09

mcmoustache wrote: »

rgossip30 wrote: »

This could be one the reasons he left the EDL . I know he did state that he found it had become too extremist .

That's correct. He said that he was concerned about the "dangers of far-right extremism". The group containing an alarming number of pedos doesn't seem to have been a problem for him, however.

It’s a question of whether he’s actually concerned about pedos or Muslims. It’s clear enough that he’s only using pedos as a stick to beat Muslims.

mcmoustache

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It’s a question of whether he’s actually concerned about pedos or Muslims. It’s clear enough that he’s only using pedos as a stick to beat Muslims.

That's it exactly. He seems to be OK with pedos if they're white.

rgossip30

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It’s a question of whether he’s actually concerned about pedos or Muslims. It’s clear enough that he’s only using pedos as a stick to beat Muslims.

Well it's the BBC at present

El_Duderino 09

rgossip30 wrote: »

Well it's the BBC at present

What’s the bbc?

rgossip30

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

What’s the bbc?

Is that an attempt at humour .

El_Duderino 09

rgossip30 wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

What’s the bbc?

Is that an attempt at humour .

No. You said “it’s the bbc at present and I asked what is the bbc at present? What were you talking about?

The Highwayman

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

No. You said “it’s the bbc at present and I asked what is the bbc at present? What were you talking about?

TR is the subject of a BBC Panorama investigation. It turns out when the BBC were starting their research they reached out to different people who had worked with him or knew him in some way. From what I understand some woman who the BBC contacted told Tommy. So Tommy and this woman and I'm guessing others started a reverse investigation on the BBC, secret cameras, microphones etc.

There are a few teaser clips on you tube and to be honest John Seeeny could be in trouble. He's shown running up outrageous bills at lunch with TV licence payers money
Filmed making some very elitist and classless snobbery remarks about working class people.
Then he admits to leering at some Iranian woman.

There are many people over the last few years who have lost their jobs for much less however this is the BBC so nobody is talking about It.

He said there is a whole documentary of stuff and he's going to show it some date this month.

The stuff shown does show John Sweeney in a very bad light but the full show will have to have a lot more to get any traction with MSM.

rgossip30

The Highwayman wrote: »

TR is the subject of a BBC Panorama investigation. It turns out when the BBC were starting their research they reached out to different people who had worked with him or knew him in some way. From what I understand some woman who the BBC contacted told Tommy. So Tommy and this woman and I'm guessing others started a reverse investigation on the BBC, secret cameras, microphones etc.

There are a few teaser clips on you tube and to be honest John Seeeny could be in trouble. He's shown running up outrageous bills at lunch with TV licence payers money
Filmed making some very elitist and classless snobbery remarks about working class people.
Then he admits to leering at some Iranian woman.

There are many people over the last few years who have lost their jobs for much less however this is the BBC so nobody is talking about It.

He said there is a whole documentary of stuff and he's going to show it some date this month.
The stuff shown does show John Sweeney in a very bad light but the full show will have to have a lot more to get any traction with MSM.

The full video is to be screened outside the BBC in Manchester this Saturday.There was also a slur that John Sweeney had Irish connections !

Cienciano

The Highwayman wrote: »

TR is the subject of a BBC Panorama investigation. It turns out when the BBC were starting their research they reached out to different people who had worked with him or knew him in some way. From what I understand some woman who the BBC contacted told Tommy. So Tommy and this woman and I'm guessing others started a reverse investigation on the BBC, secret cameras, microphones etc.

There are a few teaser clips on you tube and to be honest John Seeeny could be in trouble. He's shown running up outrageous bills at lunch with TV licence payers money
Filmed making some very elitist and classless snobbery remarks about working class people.
Then he admits to leering at some Iranian woman.

There are many people over the last few years who have lost their jobs for much less however this is the BBC so nobody is talking about It.

He said there is a whole documentary of stuff and he's going to show it some date this month.

The stuff shown does show John Sweeney in a very bad light but the full show will have to have a lot more to get any traction with MSM.

The video is terrible. At the moment we get Tommy and John face to face discussing hidden camera footage of John Sweeney saying something. Footage is played, Tommy shouts, John Sweeney tries to explain it, but once 2 words are out Tommy shouts over him telling him what he meant and what he thinks which is obviously wrong. Then next clip is played, repeat the process.

El_Duderino 09

The Highwayman wrote: »

TR is the subject of a BBC Panorama investigation. It turns out when the BBC were starting their research they reached out to different people who had worked with him or knew him in some way. From what I understand some woman who the BBC contacted told Tommy. So Tommy and this woman and I'm guessing others started a reverse investigation on the BBC, secret cameras, microphones etc.

There are a few teaser clips on you tube and to be honest John Seeeny could be in trouble. He's shown running up outrageous bills at lunch with TV licence payers money
Filmed making some very elitist and classless snobbery remarks about working class people.
Then he admits to leering at some Iranian woman.

There are many people over the last few years who have lost their jobs for much less however this is the BBC so nobody is talking about It.

He said there is a whole documentary of stuff and he's going to show it some date this month.

The stuff shown does show John Sweeney in a very bad light but the full show will have to have a lot more to get any traction with MSM.

Ah that’s interesting. Is the point that John sweeny and TR should pay for his behaviour or that making racial/classist slurs is grand and neither should be scrutinised?

moonage

Grayson wrote: »

I have to say, the list of convicted paedophiles in the EDL from a few pages back is shocking.

I wonder what percentage that amounts to.

The Muslim rape gangs in the UK were highly organised and abused ten of thousands of children over decades.

There's no reason to believe that any paedo activity in the EDL was organised or that it's at a rate higher than in the general population.

Here's an insighful video about why they (politicians, mainstream media, "the chattering classes") hate Tommy Robinson:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsaA4ItP_9A

ancapailldorcha

There's every reason to believe that the EDL has a paedophilia problem. Billy86 posted a catalogue of links above that your video almost certainly won't address. I'm not going to watch it as there's no indication you have.

ohnonotgmail

why is it always videos with Tommy fans? Have they heard of autocorrect?

Grayson

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

why is it always videos with Tommy fans? Have they heard of autocorrect?

And they're very recultant to actually explain what's in a video.

So why shouldn't i do the same.

here's a video of a comedian talking to a load of EDL supporters. The supporters in general are some of the dumbest people you could meet

There's one great bit where one guy says that they need more terrorist attacks to get people to dislike muslims more.