Recommend electric folding scooter for end of commute (Mod Note Post #1)

Martynet

Hey guys,
We have updated the public consulatation doc to make it easier for people to fill in... If you are in favor of new forms of personal electric transport, please fill the form. Every positive feedback counts. Thank you

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScSV7GSSO8zg3Istmog_e1HK3QrBkBj5XFawB3H6Hxx5poKlw/viewform

rubadub

Martynet wrote: »

Hey guys,
We have updated the public consulatation doc to make it easier for people to fill in... If you are in favor of new forms of personal electric transport, please fill the form. Every positive feedback counts. Thank you

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScSV7GSSO8zg3Istmog_e1HK3QrBkBj5XFawB3H6Hxx5poKlw/viewform

Question 8: If the use of PPTs is to be permitted do you think that they should be restricted to (i) a maximum speed (if yes - please suggest such a maximum speed) and (ii) only used on roads with a maximum speed limit of (a) 30kph, (b) 40kph or (c) 50kph?
Consider there is very different types/models of eRides, capable of very different safe speeds. If "Yes", should this be a "hard" limit set by the manufacturer, or a "soft" limit enforced by the authorities (same as for other vehicles like motorcycles and cars). Consider that "self-balancing" eRides need extra power to safely go uphills.

I don't get the reason for mentioning the bit in bold. Do you mean extra speed?

Question 3: Are there any types of PPTs (e.g. Segways, eScooters, electric unicycles etc) that you think should not be permitted to be used and why?

This should really include ebikes with throttles, as I presume you want them to be permitted if other throttled vehicles are. While it could be said to be included by "etc" it is not explicitly mentioned elsewhere.

People may want different limits for different units. I would not fancy going 35km/h on a unicycle yoke, but would have no bother on a bicycle.

liamog

Martynet wrote: »

Hey guys,
We have updated the public consulatation doc to make it easier for people to fill in... If you are in favor of new forms of personal electric transport, please fill the form. Every positive feedback counts. Thank you

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScSV7GSSO8zg3Istmog_e1HK3QrBkBj5XFawB3H6Hxx5poKlw/viewform

Link to the actual public consultation in case any wonders if this is legit.

https://assets.gov.ie/27027/e36f887771f243d8a98a6f17646419ef.pdf

Martynet

liamog wrote: »

Link to the actual public consultation in case any wonders if this is legit.

https://assets.gov.ie/27027/e36f887771f243d8a98a6f17646419ef.pdf

It is legit. It was created to make it easier for some people. Because some people were too lazy to print the original form, fill it up, scan it and email it back. Because the original pdf is not editable.
So, we are just trying to make it as easy as possible.

Martynet

rubadub wrote: »

I don't get the reason for mentioning the bit in bold. Do you mean extra speed?

This should really include ebikes with throttles, as I presume you want them to be permitted if other throttled vehicles are. While it could be said to be included by "etc" it is not explicitly mentioned elsewhere.

People may want different limits for different units. I would not fancy going 35km/h on a unicycle yoke, but would have no bother on a bicycle.

Speed limits:
I think everyone should be able to go as fast as they want if it's safe for them and the others.
So, I'm suggesting to the the most basic PPTs which nearly everyone would be allowed to use straight away would be limited by 25 km/h. No insurance or tax needed. Treat them same as ebikes basically. But people should be allowed to use more powerful and expensive devices too. If they hold some type of driving license so they know all the traffic rules and laws and if they have insurance for PPTS, like in some other EU countries.

Lumen

An important difference between a pedelec and these other devices is that you can still do more than the max assist speed by pedalling. On a scooter or electric skateboard you can't, except downhill.

I think it makes more sense to limit both types to 30kph with no power limit, which enables them to keep up with vehicular traffic in 30kph zones, even uphill. This is definitely safer than forcing them into the gutter to face close passes from cars.

For faster than 30kph we have the various classes of motorcycle, which can be expected to go electric over time and have all the training, PPE, insurance and license progression nailed down already. If we want to encourage these to go electric that can be done via the motor tax system as with cars.

ted1

Martynet wrote: »

Speed limits:
I think everyone should be able to go as fast as they want if it's safe for them and the others.
So, I'm suggesting to the the most basic PPTs which nearly everyone would be allowed to use straight away would be limited by 25 km/h. No insurance or tax needed. Treat them same as ebikes basically. But people should be allowed to use more powerful and expensive devices too. If they hold some type of driving license so they know all the traffic rules and laws and if they have insurance for PPTS, like in some other EU countries.

You say , treat them the same as ebikes
Then contradict that statement: but people should be allowed to use more powerful ones.....and you think they should be allowed go as fast as they want.

As regards other eu countries , dint Germany have a 20kmh limit , what country has legislated and allow people go as fast as they want.

What’s the difference between a powerful scooter and a Electric motorbike ?

rivegauche

Germany: 20kmph limit, no passengers, ride while drunk and you'll lose your driving license, ride without insurance and you'll be fined or end up in court, ride on pavement and you'll be fined.

SteM

Anyone have any experience of the kugoo es2? Was thinking of picking one up but the only YouTube videos I can find are in Russian.

liamog

I say treat them as e-bikes, and then an AM license and insurance should be required for devices capable of going over 30 km/h.

ted1

liamog wrote: »

I say treat them as e-bikes, and then an AM license and insurance should be required for devices capable of going over 30 km/h.

So not like e-bikes...

...Ghost...

ted1 wrote: »

You say , treat them the same as ebikes
Then contradict that statement: but people should be allowed to use more powerful ones.....and you think they should be allowed go as fast as they want.

As regards other eu countries , dint Germany have a 20kmh limit , what country has legislated and allow people go as fast as they want.

What’s the difference between a powerful scooter and a Electric motorbike ?

His comment was clear to me. People should have the choice to choose to use faster e-rideables, but anything limited to 25km/h should require no tax, or insurance, effectively treating them like e-bikes. I am broadly of the same opinion, but would suggest 3okm/h be more realistic, as most cyclists can achieve and exceed those speeds.

liamog

ted1 wrote: »

So not like e-bikes...

e-bikes legally have to cut power at 25 km/h. You can go faster with your own pedal action.
If you can skoot faster than 30 km/h then fair play to you and it should be allowed.

I'd also be in favour of upping the assistance speed to 30 km/h on e-bikes.

Martynet

...Ghost... wrote: »

His comment was clear to me. People should have the choice to choose to use faster e-rideables, but anything limited to 25km/h should require no tax, or insurance, effectively treating them like e-bikes. I am broadly of the same opinion, but would suggest 3okm/h be more realistic, as most cyclists can achieve and exceed those speeds.

Thank you, that's exactly what I meant. I would also vote for 30 km/h, but 25 km/h is just easier, because it's already applied across EU on e-bikes.

BarryM

Question, on the road or on the pavements.....????

OH, I know that bikes use the pavements (illegally?) but, maybe, if scooters are legalised, will they be OK on the pavements or will they be required to use the road?

Given the shambles that cycle lanes are generally, what are the chances that a) there will be any improvements and/or b) that the guards and other 'authorities' will actually apply whatever rules are introduced?

See this morning's report on the guy with 19 temporary licenses and never did a test.....

beauf

You can only judge what might happen by looking at peoples track record in the past.

So very little has been achieved in the past and what little was achieved took forever. So expect more of the same.

tuxy

You put others at risk by going on pavments. It's yourself you mostly put at risk on roads so it's the only sane option. 25km/h is absolutely bombing it by Dublin city cenre standard anyway, no need to use the cycle lane and probably best not to.

antodeco

Being honest, I think anyone who uses any form of personal transport, should sit a basic competency test. I use an eScooter, but Ive done over 500,000kms in a car first, so have a consciousness of basic road use! (and path use!)

AhHaor

And footpath use should be encouraged where it's not safe on the road etc. However, this must be with the owner wheeling the scooter. This should be quite a simple discussion. If cycle lane is unsuitable either scoot on road or walk on footpath (or slow down on cycle lane)

Lots of users seem to be experienced road users with cop on and respect for others. With increased popularity this will be lost.

tuxy

Should it not go without saying that it is permissible to walk on the footpath?
No need to complicate things.

Martynet

I scooted about 2300 Km in Dublin and sometimes, it's impossible to use a road and I use pavement. But I go extremely (10-15 km/h) slowly and sometimes even jump off and walk if pedestrians are around. It's really just about common sense. Keep everyone safe. I also use pavement when going to school with kids. They scoot in front of me and I'm just following them in their speed.

rivegauche

15 kmph is not slow on a pavement for a grown mail with a weight of 80kg and an additonal 15 to 20kg for the scooter. You're a fairly large projectile.
Children under 14 are not allowed to use an elektroscooter in public spaces in Germany.

antodeco

rivegauche wrote: »

15 kmph is not slow on a pavement for a grown mail with a weight of 80kg and an additonal 15 to 20kg for the scooter. You're a fairly large projectile.
Children under 14 are not allowed to use an elektroscooter in public spaces in Germany.

I've been on the path and passed out multiple times by people on bicycles. I think there needs to be clarity across the board.

AhHaor

Well there's clarity for cyclists, it's illegal. And should be same for e-scooters. But like most of the rules in this country it's not enforsed.

antodeco

AhHaor wrote: »

Well there's clarity for cyclists, it's illegal. And should be same for e-scooters. But like most of the rules in this country it's not enforsed.

Ah ok. Didn't know that about cyclists!

punisher5112

antodeco wrote: »

I've been on the path and passed out multiple times by people on bicycles. I think there needs to be clarity across the board.

It's sort of in the name.... Footpath....

No cyclist or scooter user should be on the path unless it is a cycle path clearly marked....

E scooters need insurance and a licence and the Gardai are slowly enforcing this.

punisher5112

Here is a case that was up for riding a e scooter.

https://www-irishtimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/first-cases-of-riding-e-scooters-without-insurance-brought-to-court-1.4057797?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&mode=amp&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15717811411863&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fcrime-and-law%2Ffirst-cases-of-riding-e-scooters-without-insurance-brought-to-court-1.4057797

tuxy

punisher5112 wrote: »

Here is a case that was up for riding a e scooter.

https://www-irishtimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/first-cases-of-riding-e-scooters-without-insurance-brought-to-court-1.4057797?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&mode=amp&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15717811411863&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fcrime-and-law%2Ffirst-cases-of-riding-e-scooters-without-insurance-brought-to-court-1.4057797

It sounds like the best thing to do is ignore the court summons.

unkel

punisher5112 wrote: »

Here is a case that was up for riding a e scooter.

"Fianna Fáil is seeking to introduce a law that would mean some electric scooters and other such vehicles would not require a licence or insurance, but that helmets would be compulsory, that there would be a speed limit of 25km/h and that it would be an offence to interfere with speed-limiting software on the vehicles."

tuxy

unkel wrote: »

"Fianna Fáil is seeking to introduce a law that would mean some electric scooters and other such vehicles would not require a licence or insurance, but that helmets would be compulsory, that there would be a speed limit of 25km/h and that it would be an offence to interfere with speed-limiting software on the vehicles."

What is the policy of the party currently in power?