Recommend electric folding scooter for end of commute (Mod Note Post #1)

punisher5112

Genuine shops and retailers shouldn't be selling these and they should receive hefty fines for doing so.
Yes I understand not going to happen but it's poor form to be honest for such an outfit like Halfords to be selling....

I'm fully for the regulation to change but unfortunately it hasn't so until it does they are illegal and many are absolutely cheap crap knock offs....

I look at each one as one less car congesting a road, same as when I see a cyclist and motorcyclist.

beauf

tuxy wrote: »

Yes having it the same as ebikes would be interesting where they only get motor assistance while scooting so continuous scooting would be required. But it would turn many people off using escooters even though it would still be a viable, fast method of getting around a city or town.

I meant the other rules not that specific one.

tuxy

beauf wrote: »

I meant the other rules not that specific one.

Why exclude that one? It could potentially make people more attentive and aware of how they are operating the scooter.

beauf

tuxy wrote: »

Why exclude that one? It could potentially make people more attentive and aware of how they are operating the scooter.

Could make them less attentive.

unkel

punisher5112 wrote: »

Genuine shops and retailers shouldn't be selling these and they should receive hefty fines for doing so.

Why? As long as they make it 100% clear that those products can only be used on private roads, they are covered.

And that's exactly what they say on their website when you try order one of these items

tuxy

unkel wrote: »

Why? As long as they make it 100% clear that those products can only be used on private roads, they are covered.

And that's exactly what they say on their website when you try order one of these items

I'm probably not picking up on the sarcasm in your post but this is the first result when you search for an Irish eScooter shop on google

https://skoot.ie/

SAY GOODBYE TO
TRAFFIC
Beat the traffic and ditch rush hour. Travel through your city's scenic routes while taking the high road but avoiding the road rage.

Buy Now!

And there are many other retailers with similar sales tactics.

unkel

Haha, beat the traffic and ditch rush hour. I'm afraid not. Does it say something that on the Halfords site though?

punisher5112

unkel wrote: »

Why? As long as they make it 100% clear that those products can only be used on private roads, they are covered.

And that's exactly what they say on their website when you try order one of these items

But that sign inside the shop didn't state it....

Look I said I know it can't be changed or enforced in that way...

Same as the brighter higher wattage headlamp bulbs etc...
Off road use only is usually on the packet.

Lumen

unkel wrote: »

Haha, beat the traffic and ditch rush hour. I'm afraid not. Does it say something that on the Halfords site though?

Link goes here:

https://www.rsa.ie/Documents/VS_Information_Notes/Two_Three_Wheeled_Vehicles/FAQs%20on%20E%20Bikes%20and%20Pedelecs%20and%20battery%20Scooters.pdf

unkel

Yep, that's what I saw when I looked on their website. That's pretty much as responsible as you can get short of not selling these scooters at all. Can't see anything wrong there.

Capt'n Midnight

rivegauche wrote: »

Germany: 20kmph limit, no passengers, ride while drunk and you'll lose your driving license, ride without insurance and you'll be fined or end up in court, ride on pavement and you'll be fined.

FRANCE

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50189279

France is bringing in new rules for the use of electric scooters following hundreds of incidents involving the vehicles, including several deaths.

From Saturday, riders will be required to be at least 12 and will not be able to ride their scooter on the pavement.

...
Users cannot go against the traffic flow and must use cycle paths where available

Riders will not be allowed to wear headphones while on their scooter
...
Users riding on permitted faster roads must wear a helmet and high-visibility clothing

E-scooters will be banned completely on country roads
...
At least five other scooter deaths have been reported in France, including in the capital Paris and its suburbs and the eastern city of Reims.

Capt'n Midnight

Before the pneumatic tyre most road vehicles had large wheels to smooth out bumps.

Gutters and shores and manhole covers and potholes exist. And tiny wheels can't take them at speed. Physics is unforgiving.

7mm bumps are allowed on the roads.
https://www.tiipublications.ie/library/CC-SPW-00700-02.pdf

Anyone riding one on a bumpy road can't be paying full attention to the traffic.


Allowing escooters on the road is a huge liability risk for the local authorities and existing road users.

ted1

tuxy wrote: »

I'm probably not picking up on the sarcasm in your post but this is the first result when you search for an Irish eScooter shop on google

https://skoot.ie/



And there are many other retailers with similar sales tactics.

And they say:

https://skoot.ie/pages/terms

“Riders must be familiar with Irish Road Traffic Legislation, and only ride on private lands, with the owners written or verbal permission, or on their own private lands. “


But they fail to display basic information or a business address

BarryM

beauf wrote: »

So not allowed except where there are pavements which they aren't allowed on anyway except at slow speeds or where marked. Which they aren't. Will it be enforced I wonder.

I'm not sure how boreen comes into it. Boreen usually suggests single lane road with grass in the middle. I doubt it has any meaning outside of Ireland.

I did include a smiley

beauf

I did note that, and France sounds like it has a similar approach to rules to Ireland.

rubadub

tuxy wrote: »

And there are many other retailers with similar sales tactics.

One crowd went so far as to employ an Irish law firm to give a knowingly false legal statement saying they can be used on the roads. I wonder how much that law company sold their reputation for, either way, if they knew it or not they have disgraced themselves, either as liars or being woefully incompetent.

I posted links in some thread before showing the site, I wonder if they still have it up.

These conmen still have it up, sick to think how many poor suckers were duped into buying them, and these conmen getting away scot free
https://gyrowheel.ie/faq/

What is the legal status of electric/battery powered scooters, unicycles and skateboards in Ireland?

Electric vehicles or any other Mechanically Propelled Vehicles (MPV) do not need to be taxed or insured in Ireland as long as they don’t go over 45 mph. All our products travel below 45 mph. However, if any electric vehicles go over 45 mph, then those would need to get tax and insurance like a regular car or motorbike.

The legal position is that if an electric scooter can be powered by mechanical or electrical power alone, and does not require pedaling or scooting for propulsion, then the scooter is considered to be a mechanically propelled vehicle (MPV) in terms of road traffic legislation, all our electric scooters have the setting that it requires an initial scoot by the user to begin motion therefore they require scooting for propulsion. Therefore if such scooters are to be used in any public place, again they do not require insurance and road tax as they are not a MPV and travel under 45mph. The driver of the scooter does not require a driving licence as the scooters are not a MPV in terms of road traffic legislation.

For further details please see garda.ie.

more lying scum below, grey area me hole.
https://www.escooterireland.ie/apps/help-center#!hc-are-electric-scooters-legal-in-ireland

Are Electric Scooters Legal in Ireland?
Yes they are legal! Whether or not they can be used on public roads is a bit of a grey area that there is some debate about.The minister for transport is looking at bringing in specific laws for the electric scooters in the near future and you can read more on this here.

More being wilfuly vague & misleading below, if you are selling them you know damn well that using them on the road is not a grey area, and that is what people really want to know.
https://easymotion.ie/blogs/news/easy-motion-faq

Electric Scooters
Do they require a license to use?
This depends on their use, it is a grey area and we would advise to check with your local Garda station for an accurate answer

https://www.greenaer.ie/electric-scooters-ireland/

The Best Urban Electric Scooters
Compact, Foldable & Easy. Freedom To Go Everywhere!
When you have a meeting to get to you want to get there fast without traffic jams or public transport . Jump on, ride door to door, fold up and go.

Horray! actual found an honest one besides halfords!
https://kickscooter.ie/faq/

Are Electric Scooters legal in Ireland?
Yes, Electric Scooters are legal in Ireland for personal use on private property, with the consent of the property owner.

However under current legislation it is illegal to operate in public areas such as public footpaths and roadways.
The department of transport and the Road Safety Authority (RSA) are currently reviewing the current legislation in regards to electrically / mechanically propelled vehicles. With an update to current legislation expected soon.

however unlike halfords there are no warnings on their purchasing pages, and this page is certainly deliberately misleading.
https://kickscooter.ie/about-electric-scooters/

Electric Scooters are clean, reliable, sustainable and let’s admit it a pretty cool form of transport.

Ireland needs to address both congestion in our urban areas and the demands of our over burdened commuter networks. Through the adoption of sustainable modes of transport this can be achieved.

Kick Scooter is more than an online shop for all of your scooting needs. In our small part we are here to help address Ireland’s answer to a more sustainable, greener form of transport and commuting.

tuxy

rubadub wrote: »

One crowd went so far as to employ an Irish law firm to give a knowingly false legal statement saying they can be used on the roads. I wonder how much that law company sold their reputation for, either way, if they knew it or not they have disgraced themselves, either as liars or being woefully incompetent.

I posted links in some thread before showing the site, I wonder if they still have it up.

These conmen still have it up, sick to think how many poor suckers were duped into buying them, and these conmen getting away scot free
https://gyrowheel.ie/faq/

Apparently as long as Halfords are honest then it does not matter what every other retailer does.

punisher5112

Look I'll be honest I think it's very misleading for those stupid type that think ah it's been sold so it's fine.

Take this as you will but they aren't absolute lethal weapons like AKs or ir15s like the US....


I believe we need regulation and proper safe types sold...

The small wheel type definitely need to be banned but those with proper rubber tyres that can soak up bumps etc are quite good.

We need them to be fitted with adequate lighting and reflectors also as this imo isn't the case with 99% of what I see.

beauf

If your route has smooth surfaces small wheels might be ok.

punisher5112

beauf wrote: »

If your route has smooth surfaces small wheels might be ok.

Might..... No harm having the extra cushion though....

They are going to be on the road for example...

I hope the laws are sorted

Lumen

I wonder whether electric skateboards will come under the same classification

They have the same tiny wheel problem but many have solid plastic wheels which are apparently useless/lethal in the wet.

I went quite far down the rabbit hole of pre purchase research and concluded that only the off road variants would work practically in all weathers on the type of roads I would need it to work on.

BarryM

So, it seems clear that e-scooters are not street legal but ok for riding round the farm?

Are buggies street legal, i.e. four wheeled yokes where you can throw a bale of hay or two on the back? Or golf buggies? If so, do they need tax and insurance for the road?

It seems that e-bikes are street legal since you need to pedal to get going, a bit bizarre since there is a lot of discussion about boosting them.

In any of these cases is a helmet obligatory?

Finally, I see Lord Churchtown as he is known, getting on tv to waffle on about, badly needed, legislation about passing cyclists dangerously. Seems very tricky to implement, imo.

Answer re France in my previous post. As usual it is total anarchy, often see two people going to and from school on one e-scooter, mammy's with a child bungy strapped behind, rented ones thrown all over the place, etc., etc.

Calahonda52

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Allowing escooters on the road is a huge liability risk for the local authorities and existing road users.

Well said.

...Ghost...

punisher5112 wrote: »

E scooters need insurance and a licence and the Gardai are slowly enforcing this.

Statement does not compute. They are still illegal and not possible to insure.

grogi wrote: »

I honestly don't remember seeing a car going over sidewalk. Scooter riders aren't as polite.

The residents of Darndale see this on a daily basis.

ted1 wrote: »

E-Scooters and their limited range are not taking people out if private cars. They are just taking them off public transport.

I don't follow your logic Ted. I know of some e-scooter users who leave the car at home some days, or who don't own a car and have stopped using public transport in favour of their scooter.

Some use their scooter for the last leg of their journey, choosing to leave their car within range of the scooter journey. I have done this myself plenty of times, leaving my electric car charging at a slow charger (if it needed a charge) and using my scooter the rest of the way.

I have stopped doing this until legislation is passed and this means I add to the congestion in the city every morning. Better than a fine, tow fee and a possible conviction.

punisher5112

...Ghost... wrote: »

Statement does not compute. They are still illegal and not possible to insure.



The residents of Darndale see this on a daily basis.



I don't follow your logic Ted. I know of some e-scooter users who leave the car at home some days, or who don't own a car and have stopped using public transport in favour of their scooter.

Some use their scooter for the last leg of their journey, choosing to leave their car within range of the scooter journey. I have done this myself plenty of times, leaving my electric car charging at a slow charger (if it needed a charge) and using my scooter the rest of the way.

I have stopped doing this until legislation is passed and this means I add to the congestion in the city every morning. Better than a fine, tow fee and a possible conviction.

Yes they need to be road legal, have lighting, insurance and a licence which isn't possible so I don't get why you are arguing my point which states they are illegal....

I said they are illegal, I wasn't saying it any other way.

tuxy

punisher5112 wrote: »

Yes they need to be road legal, have lighting, insurance and a licence which isn't possible so I don't get why you are arguing my point which states they are illegal....

I said they are illegal, I wasn't saying it any other way.

If there was a licence category for them they would be legal. It would be up to private insurance companies to decide to cover them. Which of course they will if there is money to be made.

Johnboy1951

Bring back the days when a private individual could post a bond against accidental damage claims while using a vehicle.

ED E

tuxy wrote: »

If there was a licence category for them they would be legal. It would be up to private insurance companies to decide to cover them. Which of course they will if there is money to be made.

Its more than just for licensing. They'd need to be enacted for registration/exempted for same, roadworthiness, lighting regs.

Making them legal properly would be a big enough task.

Johnboy1951

ED E wrote: »

Its more than just for licensing. They'd need to be enacted for registration/exempted for same, roadworthiness, lighting regs.

Making them legal properly would be a big enough task.

It might cause difficulties physically for the devices themselves, but if they complied with a set of legal requirements then they would be legal ..... I believe that is the point being made.

punisher5112

Oh I give up I'm right and then told I'm right but told I'm wrong....
Wtf....

The vehicles as they are at the moment are illegal on a public road, have no place on a footpath and are just not permitted under our laws as they are.....


They need a white light at the front, indicator front and rear both sides, rear red light including a red reflector, a licence plate with year, county, and a EU flag with blue background, helmet for user, a fully legal licence for the category which most likely would fall under the motorcycle section, insurance to be fully road legal....


It's a lot but unfortunately until it's changed there is no chance here to legally use.

By the way in theory I think they are great but imo only the ones with the chunky tyres as the others I've seen are poor at taken road gaps, cracks, drains and pot holes for example.....

It's great if people can get of the cars and as public transport is at the moment they will be a great help as are bikes.