Recommend electric folding scooter for end of commute (Mod Note Post #1)

beauf

Lumen wrote: »

Lights is an issue. The law w.r.t. lights on bicycles is ancient and compromised by the reliance on small self-contained (in the light) batteries. e-bikes managed to get away without any special lighting regs as they are piggybacking on the antiquated bicycle regs.

In a powered vehicle it makes sense to require decent permanently wired lights as part of the type approval.

But it's not obvious to me how scooters should be lit at the rear. Is lighting near ground level acceptable from a visibility perspective? Maybe with modern leds, bathing the ground in a pool of light actually helps?

We don't police how bright cyclist lights are or where they are positioned. Some have lights so bad they practically have none.

I've been behind eScooters with lights on the rear mud guards. They are very hard to see. Especially in traffic. Maybe they just aren't bright or flashing enough. Ideally you want a light on the back of your helmet and perhaps on bank also.

ted1

Lumen wrote: »

Lights is an issue. The law w.r.t. lights on bicycles is ancient and compromised by the reliance on small self-contained (in the light) batteries. e-bikes managed to get away without any special lighting regs as they are piggybacking on the antiquated bicycle regs.

In a powered vehicle it makes sense to require decent permanently wired lights as part of the type approval.

But it's not obvious to me how scooters should be lit at the rear. Is lighting near ground level acceptable from a visibility perspective? Maybe with modern leds, bathing the ground in a pool of light actually helps?

A rear light attached to a back pack , hat , belt etc is the best option. A light at herb height is useless especially in traffic.
A front light attached to handle bar is the best fir the front

prinzeugen

If similar rules regarding lighting came in that are similar to current motorbike rules, the lights must be fixed to the frame and not to a movable part (like handlebars).

One solution would be to fix them to the frame at the front so they always face forward regardless of which way the bars are pointing.

For the rear, a foldable pole with a red light (and even turn lights) similar to the rear blue light that Garda motorbikes have, might work. The same pole could carry the reg plate.

There is no requirement in Ireland for motorbikes to have mirrors of indicators (but if fitted they must work) so I presume scooters would not need them either should the be made legal. Then you have brake lights, reg plate lights....

beauf

... fenders, an ejection seat, drag chute, fire extinguishers, a man walking in front with flags...

antodeco

I have a rear light, but I agree that its too low down, so I have a flashing one on the back of my helmet. The front one is perfectly fine as it lights up a lot!

...Ghost...

prinzeugen wrote: »

If similar rules regarding lighting came in that are similar to current motorbike rules, the lights must be fixed to the frame and not to a movable part (like handlebars).

One solution would be to fix them to the frame at the front so they always face forward regardless of which way the bars are pointing.

For the rear, a foldable pole with a red light (and even turn lights) similar to the rear blue light that Garda motorbikes have, might work. The same pole could carry the reg plate.

There is no requirement in Ireland for motorbikes to have mirrors of indicators (but if fitted they must work) so I presume scooters would not need them either should the be made legal. Then you have brake lights, reg plate lights....

The foldable pole would be a hazard. The only way this would work is where a seat is fitted to the scooter. Otherwise you are asking to be impaled. I for sure would not like to be on a scooter with a pole mounted behind me.

The light on the front of the M365 is pretty good. It turns with the handle bars, but I see that as a bonus.

I think a larger, brighter rear light on the mud guard would be sufficient for the scooter and the rider should ideally have another light on the helmet (if worn).

Legislation and enforcement needs a real kick up the arse here. Some of the lights on bicycles are so bright that they are like a car with full beams on. Don't get me started on the bright flashing ones :mad:

antodeco

The best way for the lights would be an extendable pole out from the handlebars, that have a flashing LED on it. It could then be seen from behind and front.

pablo128

I'm over in Spain at the mo. 2 cheeky fcuks on these things came up behind us on the footpath trying to beep us out of the way. They continued on up the footpath beeping at other pedestrians.

This is why they should be regulated.

Henry Ford III

ED E wrote:

The difference between eBikes (25KG), trad bikes (10KG) and eScooters (12KG) doesnt really matter, when the rider is say 60-100KG its proportionally a very small part of the momentum they have upon collision.

Granted but it's still a red herring since escooters are a form of mpv.

tuxy

tuxy wrote: »

Shane Ross promised a quick decision on e-scooters so it won't be long before a sensible solution is implemented.

Although the government promised to make a decision on electric scooters in a timely manner, it's actually encouraging that they have been wise enough to hold of on it for another month. I'm still expecting a satisfactory decision in the coming months, it shouldn't be rushed.

rivegauche

e-scooters from a sharing service have started appearing all over my town in the last day or two.
This is the scooter. https://bonnkey.com/blog/tier-e-scooter-bonn/
I had a look at one today but didn't ride it. It looked very robust. They are GPS tracked and dockless. Prices at 2.50 per 10 minute ride seem a bit high to me as especially as they are competing with a public bike service which is professionally operated. I thought it was funny that one of the places where they located them was right beside the river. In Dublin the owners would be fishing them out of the river within hours.
Supposedly the operator will collect them at night to prevent overnight vandalism.

They are all registered with a number plate now that they are legal so they are insured and completely compliant but I can imagine the locals will get sick of them strewn around the place in our scenic city.

I saw a video today and ford are involved in other e-skooter projects and are now using proprietary screws to stop vandalism. I assume the vandalism involves stripping all the expensive valuable parts so not true vandalism but theft.

ED E

tuxy wrote: »

Although the government promised to make a decision on electric scooters in a timely manner, it's actually encouraging that they have been wise enough to hold of on it for another month. I'm still expecting a satisfactory decision in the coming months, it shouldn't be rushed.

Shane ross says a LOT of things. Does very few. His office has sat on the MPD Law project for a few years now. The eRide community lapped up what he said but they're buying his spiel.

ED E

Exactly.

But we're talking about in a potential overhaul of the RTAs to allow LEVs not be counted like most MPVs.

prinzeugen

...Ghost... wrote: »

The foldable pole would be a hazard. The only way this would work is where a seat is fitted to the scooter. Otherwise you are asking to be impaled. I for sure would not like to be on a scooter with a pole mounted behind me.
:

It could be made of a material that is strong enough for daily use but weak enough to break in an accident. The main thing is that the lights would be near eye level with other traffic.

antodeco wrote: »

The best way for the lights would be an extendable pole out from the handlebars, that have a flashing LED on it. It could then be seen from behind and front.

That was the first thought I had about also but they would get damaged and unless they were all a standard, easy to replace part, people would not bother.

Then there is the width. Many a pedestrian is going to get clipped by one.

I have posted either here or on the C&T forum about just how difficult it is to make something road legal. Its not as straightforward as people think!

beauf

There is no reason to have different lighting rules for eBikes and eScooters, or any other similar light electric vehicle. Not like current rules are being enforced.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/over-2-000-on-the-spot-fines-for-cyclists-in-three-years-1.3580196%3fmode=amp

quarryman

So are they legal yet? Cmon Ross, get the finger out.

ted1

quarryman wrote: »

So are they legal yet? Cmon Ross, get the finger out.

He’s the minister for transport that represents South Dublin. He blocked the metro upgrade in South Dublin. Don’t hold your breath. Best thing that could happen is a general election

prinzeugen

Something must be done. People will be killed. Not through drivers fault, but by scooters.

As far as I am concerned, E scooters are the same as unregistered motorbikes.

The law applies to all!

beauf

You seem to be suggesting they ban something that is already illegal.

Not sure how feasible it is to stop people doing everything that people might get hurt doing.

Lumen

prinzeugen wrote: »

The law applies to all!

But it isn't applied to all.

MarkY91

Thinking of getting the girlfriend the Xiaomi M365

A YouTuber said his scooter costs 7c to fully charge. Can it really be so cheap to charge?

Has anyone came up against an unexpected pot hole? I could imagine it ****ing you up..they can sometimes even be dodgy on a bicycle.

I'm a little hesitant as I'm thinking safety first for her.

unkel

MarkY91 wrote: »

Thinking of getting the girlfriend the Xiaomi M365

A YouTuber said his scooter costs 7c to fully charge. Can it really be so cheap to charge?

It's a 36V 7.8Ah pack. From empty to fully charged will take 0.29kWh. Plus some losses while charging, so say 0.32kWh

If you charge at the full day rate of say 18c/kWh this will cost you less than 6c. If you have night rate electricity it would cost less than 3c

If you normally commuted on the bus, but now go eBike / eScooter, you will save yourself a fortune.

People don't realise how cheap (and clean) electricity is for transport. 16k km per year in my EV costs me about €160. Same mileage in a diesel would cost you well over a grand.

tuxy

If 1.0 Kw/h can be as little as €0.16 then it will be very cheap to charge a 0.28 kw/h battery in the Xiaomi M365. Even when you take in to consideration power lost transferring power from the wall to the battery. Really you can think of 1 charge of the scooter as the same as charging a fairly average laptop 5 times. So not something your would be concerned about the cost of.

MarkY91

That's amazing. I was concerned about charging costs but definitely not anymore! She currently gets two buses or walks (45 mins) to work.

Where do you guys recommend buying one? A YouTuber said it's got air tyres and a select on Amazon said it's got no air tyres and it's got some really bad reviews out of the total of 17 reviews. Probably a knock off version.

tuxy

MarkY91 wrote: »

That's amazing. I was concerned about charging costs but definitely not anymore! She currently gets two buses or walks (45 mins) to work.

Where do you guys recommend buying one? A YouTuber said it's got air tyres and a select on Amazon said it's got no air tyres and it's got some really bad reviews out of the total of 17 reviews. Probably a knock off version.

Most cars with a person in them will be over 1,400kg
A person on an electric scooter will usually be less than 100kg so the difference in power needed to move them is major!

A 45 min walk is probably about 3km right?
It would take 10 -15 mins on a standard push bike. Would that be an option if she wants to be legal until escooter laws come in?
It's unfortunate that neither the infrastructure or laws are in place for escooters yet.

MarkY91

tuxy wrote: »

Most cars with a person in them will be over 1,400kg
A person on an electric scooter will usually be less than 100kg so the difference in power needed to move them is major!

A 45 min walk is probably about 3km right?
It would take 10 -15 mins on a standard push bike. Would that be an option if you wants to be legal until escooter laws come in?
It's unfortunate that neither the infrastructure or laws are in place for an escooters yet.

She can't cycle. I tried and couldn't reach her..lost cause.

I plan to teach her to use a scooter in the phoenix park until she perfects it. I'm basically assuming she will pick it up far easier than a bike. She has no sense of balance.

I used scooters in Israel and picked it up within a minute or so..was flying about the place.

unkel

MarkY91 wrote: »

That's amazing. I was concerned about charging costs but definitely not anymore! She currently gets two buses or walks (45 mins) to work.

Where do you guys recommend buying one? A YouTuber said it's got air tyres and a select on Amazon said it's got no air tyres and it's got some really bad reviews out of the total of 17 reviews. Probably a knock off version.

I'd be concerned getting one of these while they are still classified as a mechanically propelled vehicle, so they can be taken off you by a guard at any time, unless you have tax and insurance (which you don't as you can't get it)

Does she have a pedal bike? You can convert a normal bike very cheaply these days to a fully legal eBike for which you do not need tax and insurance. This process is reversible too. You could try that and if she doesn't like it (she will), convert back and sell the kit.

Edit - ah ok, bike is not an option

Johnboy1951

Convert the bike and add out-riggers for balance

BarryM

n97 mini wrote: »

Electric bicycles where the motor assists the cyclist (i.e. making pedalling easier, but still required) are specifically allowed. That's a new-ish law, and again, it's specifically bicycles.

Scooters which can propel themselves unaided are unfortunately considered mechanically propelled vehicles. The one you're thinking of can, once you start it. Just like a motorbike, which requires an action from the rider to start it, but once started can propel itself.

Worth a read:
https://www.magireland.org/2015/news-media/warning-on-bicycle-engines-electric-scooters/

I may have missed it on here or elsewhere, but the section of the RTA seems to be for tax relief purposes? Does the act apply to ordinary joes?

...Ghost...

tuxy wrote: »

If 1.0 Kw/h can be as little as €0.16 then it will be very cheap to charge a 0.28 kw/h battery in the Xiaomi M365.

Night rate at 6c (€0.06)

MarkY91 wrote: »

That's amazing. I was concerned about charging costs but definitely not anymore! She currently gets two buses or walks (45 mins) to work.

Where do you guys recommend buying one? A YouTuber said it's got air tyres and a select on Amazon said it's got no air tyres and it's got some really bad reviews out of the total of 17 reviews. Probably a knock off version.

The distance matters. The M365 will lose pulling power once the battery is near half. So, how far is her journey? Can she charge the battery at her destination? The ideal scenario would be less than 10 kilometres with the ability to plug it in at her destination. The scooter will do 20km all year round on a full charge.

I purchased mine from lightinthebox, but you can buy them at Three stores. The first model is cheaper at somewhere around €350 and the new model with extended range is around €500.

She risks having the scooter seized due to the their legal status, but I am of the frame of mind that the more people going out on their scooters and using them responsibly, the better. If everyone waits for them to become legal, it won't happen. Very few have been seized and most were during a two week period in south Dublin city centre.