Recommend electric folding scooter for end of commute (Mod Note Post #1)

Calahonda52

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50189279

France is bringing in new rules for the use of electric scooters following hundreds of incidents involving the vehicles, including several deaths.
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From Saturday, riders will be required to be at least 12 and will not be able to ride their scooter on the pavement.
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The two-wheeled vehicles' top speed will also be capped by next year.
E-scooters, which can travel at more than 50km/h (30mph), are growing in popularity, in part because of their low environmental impact.
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Junior Transport Minister Jean-Baptiste Djebbari said in a statement the new rules would encourage "more responsible use... and restore a sense of tranquillity for pedestrians, in particular the most vulnerable: the elderly, children and handicapped people".
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Other rules coming into force include:
Riding on the pavement will be prohibited unless in designated areas, and then at walking speed only
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Only one rider will be allowed per device, and no mobile phone use will be allowed
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Users cannot go against the traffic flow and must use cycle paths where available
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Riders will not be allowed to wear headphones while on their scooter
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By next July, the scooters' top speed will be capped at 25km/h
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Users riding on permitted faster roads must wear a helmet and high-visibility clothing
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E-scooters will be banned completely on country roads.

Any infringement will be punished by a fine of €135 (£116), and up to €1,500 for going over the speed limit.

Johnboy1951

E-scooters will be banned completely on country roads.

Is walking also banned on these roads?
What about cycling?
Is riding a donkey or pony?

I am trying to determine what the thinking is behind this, that does not apply to other road usage.

Lumen

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Users riding on permitted faster roads must wear a helmet and high-visibility clothing

Sacre bleu! Est-ce que quelqu'un s'il vous plaît pensez à la mode!

Or something.

ted1

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Is walking also banned on these roads?
What about cycling?
Is riding a donkey or pony?

I am trying to determine what the thinking is behind this, that does not apply to other road usage.

Poor quality roads with small wheels aren’t a good match.

Johnboy1951

ted1 wrote: »

Poor quality roads with small wheels aren’t a good match.

Probably true, but are you saying this is the reason to ban these on rural roads? Are there no well surfaced roads in rural France?

Is there a wheel size requirement to use these roads?

I just cannot see what logic is used to come up with that ban.
Someone living in rural France, a few miles from the nearest village, cannot use one of these to visit the village?

beauf

The ones I've seen in Ireland on rural roads have almost no lights and dress in black. They are like ninjas. Surprised none of them have been killed so far really. Yes it's an enforcement issue. But that's the world we live in.


There was also this...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/11/man-killed-while-riding-e-scooter-on-french-motorway

It's a pity because it's a real enabler.

marklazarcovic

Halfords today

punisher5112

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Halfords today

Does it state not for public roads or footpaths or anywhere outside private property??

marklazarcovic

punisher5112 wrote: »

Does it state not for public roads or footpaths or anywhere outside private property??

Nothing of the sort

punisher5112

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Nothing of the sort

But they aren't legal (not yet anyway)

ted1

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Nothing of the sort

It does on their website.

“

Please note that this scooter is not to be used on public highways, only on private property with the owner's consent.”

https://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductMobileDisplay?catalogId=15551&langId=-1&categoryId=356002&productId=1522826&storeId=11101

rubadub

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Is walking also banned on these roads?
What about cycling?
Is riding a donkey or pony?

I am trying to determine what the thinking is behind this, that does not apply to other road usage.

laws do not have to be rational and non-hypocritical, just look at our drug laws... Historical usage & tradition come into many laws.

if there was never EVER a tradition of people riding donkeys or horses on or off the road, and all of a sudden some kids decided to ride horses on roads nowadays I expect it would be banned (if it had to be explicitly banned), rather than be legislated for. Just like if alcohol or tobacco were only discovered today.

Johnboy1951

rubadub wrote: »

laws do not have to be rational and non-hypocritical, just look at our drug laws... Historical usage & tradition come into many laws.

if there was never EVER a tradition of people riding donkeys or horses on or off the road, and all of a sudden some kids decided to ride horses on roads nowadays I expect it would be banned (if it had to be explicitly banned), rather than be legislated for. Just like if alcohol or tobacco were only discovered today.

Not sure what to make of that as I do not see it addressing in any reasonable way why I posted

I am trying to determine what the thinking is behind this, that does not apply to other road usage.

Because it is new and never done before ban it?

beauf

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

...Because it is new and never done before ban it?

They are banning it because of the problems they are having. They are also creating a legal framework that allows it in certain locations.

It's progress compared to what we have.

Johnboy1951

beauf wrote: »

They are banning it because of the problems they are having. They are also creating a legal framework that allows it in certain locations.

It's progress compared to what we have.

What are those problems they have that are peculiar to rural roads?
Have they said?

BarryM

Calahonda52 wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50189279

France is bringing in new rules for the use of electric scooters following hundreds of incidents involving the vehicles, including several deaths.
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From Saturday, ......

Note that, our crowd of wasters are still 'discussing' some sort of controls, such as avoiding killing people? They might then start a 'consultation'

I am not advocating anything except perhaps that our lords and masters might get their head out of the sand and look around to see what sort of management is being considered elsewhere, so that they might get some ideas and save time (and money?)

rubadub

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

What are those problems they have that are peculiar to rural roads?

My guess is they might have higher speed limits, or cars more likely to be breaking limits, poorer surface conditions, poorer lighting, less room to overtake.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Because it is new and never done before ban it?

Yes, that logic would make sense, that is what they do with recreational drugs. Be they new or becoming more popular -even if they might be a far wiser or safer alternative to what is already legal. Nip it in the bud early before it becomes an established problem which they would likely rather be without, like kids on sulkies or horseback or huge groups of recreational cyclists slowing down traffic/voters.

BarryM

I just looked up the French regulation, modified on October 23.

For 'rural roads' it says

Hors agglomération, la circulation des engins de déplacement personnel motorisés est interdite, sauf sur les voies vertes et les pistes cyclables.

Which says outside towns or any place where there are road facilities [in effect] EDPs -that is- electric powered, one person, no seat devices for transport, are not authorised except on 'greenways' and cycle paths.

This in effect means boreens.... of which there are not many in France It in practise means where there are no pedestrian specific facilities.
It is quite interesting as a ruling, there has been quite a row going on about bicycles (usually) off road types, and even trials motorbikes using walking paths.

beauf

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

What are those problems they have that are peculiar to rural roads?
Have they said?

No idea.

The ones I've seen here are people are riding them on dangerous roads and are in dark clothes and no lights other than the stock light which is useless. Most seen to lack basic road awareness. Doing this in on well lit straight urban roads is one thing, doing it on country roads is another.

Do you think they are suitable for rural roads then?

Johnboy1951

beauf wrote: »

No idea.

The ones I've seen here are people are riding them on dangerous roads and are in dark clothes and no lights other than the stock light which is useless. Most seen to lack basic road awareness. Doing this in on well lit straight urban roads is one thing, doing it on country roads is another.

Do you think they are suitable for rural roads then?

I doubt they are any less suitable than bicycles, people walking, people in wheelchairs etc. etc. so I expect if the same criteria is to be applied it should be applied universally, else it should be challenged on the basis of discriminating against one type of road user.

I have no skin in this game, just looking at it from an 'outside' perspective.

beauf

Lots of things aren't applied universally. Speed limits, insurance, doing a test, cyclists allowed through red lights in Paris. Cyclists are required to have lights. A bell, brakes etc. Right of way.

Johnboy1951

beauf wrote: »

Lots of things aren't applied universally. Speed limits, insurance, doing a test, cyclists allowed through red lights in Paris. Cyclists are required to have lights. A bell, brakes etc. Right of way.

All are allowed to use the public highways .... whether walking, cycling, driving.

The explanation has been provided that I sought ....... not to be use on roads where there are no suitable allowances made .... or that is how I understood the post - boreens!
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111618428&postcount=1582

beauf

So the universal thing was a complete red herring.

beauf

BarryM wrote: »

....It in practise means where there are no pedestrian specific facilities.
...

So not allowed except where there are pavements which they aren't allowed on anyway except at slow speeds or where marked. Which they aren't. Will it be enforced I wonder.

I'm not sure how boreen comes into it. Boreen usually suggests single lane road with grass in the middle. I doubt it has any meaning outside of Ireland.

Johnboy1951

beauf wrote: »

So the universal thing was a complete red herring.

No it means I got the explanation of the thinking behind what they are doing, and has nothing at all to do with whether I think it right, just or would agree or disagree with it.

That is all.

beauf

It's not a question of perspective. The rules aren't universally applied. For example the scooter speed limit on pavements doesn't apply to pedestrians.

It's the same with the roads. I expect there a lot of rural roads with no pavement. How do they know when a rural road starts and stops. Urban speed limits or something.

Really the issue was that a scooter is a useful form of transport in rural areas. But it's severely curtailed with these laws. Be interesting to see if they are enforced. They seem to be as selective as we are in terms of enforcing laws.

ted1

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Not sure what to make of that as I do not see it addressing in any reasonable way why I posted



Because it is new and never done before ban it?

There’s been several deaths over the summer with people using e scooters that’s why

rubadub

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I doubt they are any less suitable than bicycles, people walking, people in wheelchairs etc. etc.

I suspected you would not answer the question. Are skateboards & rollerblades included in those "etcs" -I would consider those to be more similar to escooters than anything else mentioned. I wonder how many countries allow them on the same roads as wheelchairs, which are obviously different as they are invalid carriages and people cannot just get off and push them.

How about people on sleighs in the snow going down hilly roads? anybody know if that is legal.

If there was a sudden influx of able bodied people using wheelchairs on the roads going at 2km/h I expect they might change the rules and require some sort of proof of your disability.

beauf

I apologize if I'm dragging this of with pendantry. So I'll stop. To honest I'm not really interested in what's not working with all this. But what is working, and what might be workable here.

I think they should have the same rules as eBikes. Even if none of that is enforced either.

tuxy

beauf wrote: »

I apologize if I'm dragging this of with pendantry. So I'll stop. To honest I'm not really interested in what's not working with all this. But what is working, and what might be workable here.

I think they should have the same rules as eBikes. Even if none of that is enforced either.

Yes having it the same as ebikes would be interesting where they only get motor assistance while scooting so continuous scooting would be required. But it would turn many people off using escooters even though it would still be a viable, fast method of getting around a city or town.