DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

Mr. Guappa

davinci88 wrote: »

You have a couple of valid points and i would agree with you in principle if i was a complete beginner ! But i am not, You wont lose all the miles in the legs taking a 9 week break to cross train in the gym after doing 2 marathons and an IM70.3 in 13 months, in fact something like that may well be reccomended if you were gonna aim for something silimar year in year out (any coaches wanna input on this) its 15 miles total week 1, if it hurts ill do some yoga or add in a massage or maybe just eat and sleep more that weekend !

Simple fact is everyone is different , I came here for mutual support and i actually might be able to help some of you as i was the scared first timer only last February , i am not here for member measuring competition and i am not poking holes in your logic ,i mean it makes sense if you were someone who just took up running this last couple of years. I know myself is what i am saying ! And 22 weeks is plenty for me start to finish !

Thanks for the warm welcome !

I did miss the weather I know but lets hope there is plenty more to come !

This is a MENTORED novice thread. People are giving you solid advice, if you're not going to listen to that advice, that's your prerogative and fair enough. But maybe a mentored thread is not for you.

ted1

davinci88 wrote: »

skyblue46 wrote: »

I don't want to rain on your parade or knock your obvious confidence in your plan......but I am obliged to!

There is zero logic in not running for months before beginning the training plan. The body will get stronger and develop the ability not to "break down" by starting at a low level and slowly building up. The next 3 weeks would be much better spent doing some short slow runs. I think if you're looking to get out in the best of the weather you have missed a trick these past few weeks. :pac:

You have a couple of valid points and i would agree with you in principle if i was a complete beginner ! But i am not, You wont lose all the miles in the legs taking a 9 week break to cross train in the gym after doing 2 marathons and an IM70.3 in 13 months, in fact something like that may well be reccomended if you were gonna aim for something silimar year in year out (any coaches wanna input on this) its 15 miles total week 1, if it hurts ill do some yoga or add in a massage or maybe just eat and sleep more that weekend !

Simple fact is everyone is different , I came here for mutual support and i actually might be able to help some of you as i was the scared first timer only last February , i am not here for member measuring competition and i am not poking holes in your logic ,i mean it makes sense if you were someone who just took up running this last couple of years. I know myself is what i am saying ! And 22 weeks is plenty for me start to finish !

Thanks for the warm welcome !

I did miss the weather I know but lets hope there is plenty more to come !

Hmmm

I did my first two marathons last year 4 weeks apart , had a bad winter running stayed back in April but had a spill on the bike , went out today after having a 6 week rest and f**k me 6 km was a struggle.

And I generally cycle 300km a week and swim 1.5km a day during lunch so would be relative fit. Didn’t bother with the 70.3 as it would be much different than a normal day ( well say 2 days)

ted1

pilot1087 wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Just wondering if anyone knows if they usually allow for further entries before the race (now that it's sold out). Returns or cancellations etc?

I was on the fence about signing up, decided today if give it a go again and just saw it has sold out. Maybe its a sign.

You’ll get an entry , plenty of people get injured or can’t make it. Just ask around at work or keep and eye out here

Kellygirl

davinci88 wrote: »

I am here to be mentored ! Week 1 I will be doing the same miles as you and making the same complaints as you !

Welcome to the thread DaVinci and congrats on the previous marathons. As you said yourself you’d advise everybody to train smart and that’s what we are doing here too. The mentoring has started already and we are advising everybody to have a solid base prior to starting week one. I should hope that nobody would be complaining in week 1 or they’ll be finding the longer runs very very tough.

So far on this thread there has been nothing but positivity and that’s the way it will be going forward. Calling people names is not acceptable.

ted1

MickOB94 wrote: »

Tried to post this last night but had login issues, so here's hoping this attempt works!

Long time reader of Boards, and signed up to DCM 2018 a few months ago with a couple of friends. I've only recently found this forum and particularly this thread, and decided to make an account and share in everyone's journey!

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
I've only ever run a handful of 5K races in the past. The vast majority of my running has been on the treadmill, and I've considerably increased the distances I run on the treadmill since signing up to DCM 2018.

5K - 25:35, Dublin Docklands, September 2016
10K - 58:50 (treadmill), May 2018

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Currently run on average 15-20km per week. If I have time/energy after a run, I would jump on the cross trainer or stationary bike for 20-30 minutes

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
My original goal was just to finish the race, however after a bit of training, I set myself a target of 4:45:00. I'm not fully sure why I settled on this time, I guess I thought 4:30:00 was a bit too ambitious, and that 5:00:00 wasn't ambitious enough!

Now, with a bit more training under my belt, and having looked at a few training plans that I could follow, I think 4:30:00 might be attainable, but I don't want to get too far ahead of myself!

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
I can train 3-4 days a week. I'm planning on following the Hal Higdon plan, that looks to be a plan that fits well around my other commitments.

What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?
Not being able to finish.

My current training involves running for 60 minutes at a fixed pace. I started at 8.5km/h (which Google informs me is a pace of approximately 11:25 per mile), and have slowly worked up, 0.1km/h at a time, to my most recent best pace of 10.2km/h (approximately 9:30 per mile). I manage to complete, on average, about 3 such runs every 2 weeks.

More often than not, when I set out to do an hour long run, I'm able to complete it. However there are days where I struggle to get to the 3 or 4km mark and have to stop running. There have even been times where one day I'd stop after 3 or 4km, then come back 1 or 2 days later and get through an hour long run with relatively little issue!

So my main fear is that the race day itself ends up being one of those days where I struggle through 3 or 4 kilometres and can't find the energy or willpower to keep going after that

Why are you running this marathon?
Over the last couple of years, I've said to myself "wouldn't it be cool to be able to run a marathon?", while I aimlessly plodded along on the treadmill and usually struggled to get through 2 or 3 kilometres :P Then last year, a friend had the same "wouldn't it be cool" thought, and I said why not!

You should aim for 4:15 from your 5 and 10km I reckon it’s achievable

As a side note Weight is a huge factor in times. I reckon it’s linear. The Kenyans are about half my weight and twice as fast.
If they were to carry an extra 50kg to balance things out I reckon I’d win

ted1

Hobbyjogger wrote: »

Tragedy has struck! I'm now unable to do DCM due to another commitment, sooo I've looked into others around the same time and decided to sign up to Cologne. OH doing the half there too so it's a good alternative. However, the marathon is 3 weeks earlier than Dublin so training plan starts earlier than mentally prepared for - this Sunday!

Pity I won't be doing it along with you all but will keep following everyone's progress all the same. I'll also still be doing some of the preparatory races, like South Dublin 10K. There's some great information for any novice in this thread!

I highly recommend the San Sebastián marathon 4 weeks after the Dublin one. It’s a good course and good city. Not to busy either

Kellygirl

MickOB94 wrote: »

I know I probably should get outside for some of my runs rather than relying completely on the treadmill, I'll have a look into some routes near my house that tie in to the Hal Higdon plan and get my ass on the road! :P

I was pretty shocked when I completed the first hour long run, I just did it on a whim to see if I could do it without stopping! It's somewhat of a testament to the "run slower" advice. I did that first run at a pace of 8.5km/h (11:25 per mile), which was at least 1.5km/h slower than I've ever tried running on a treadmill before!

I’m sorry for not getting back to you MickOB. Busy few days but I saw SkyBlue replied at least.

You definitely have to get outside. It’s so different to the treadmill and SkyBlue gave you good reasons. It’s very different too when the ground isn’t rolling underneath you and you have to push off to propel yourself forward. No harm using the treadmill for some runs but not all.

roosterman71

My acttivities for the last week:
Monday: S&C class (50 mins)
Tuesday: 8k run (5:22min/km pace - was roasting)
Wednesday: Run - 2min@80%, 1 min recovery, 10 times
Thursday: S&C class (50 mins, all upper body and core)

Won't manage to get out again to do anything until Tuesday I think. Flat out here on the farm this long weekend. I'll start next weekend hopefully to get miles in for the first week of the plan.

Baby75

coogy wrote: »

Ok so it looks like I'm back on track after last week's shin splints episode (at least, that's what I'm sure it was).

Anyway, this week I've eased into it by doing 2 x 5k runs and a 5 mile run this morning and it's holding up nicely.


Once thing that's started to freak me out is that we've recently changed the dates for our holiday abroad and now I have a 16 mile and an 18 mile run to contend (doing the Boards training plan) with while on holiday.
Although I am definitely planning to take my running gear with me, I honestly don't think it's realistic for me to run those types of distances while away.......though I hope to be proved wrong.

I'm not suggesting that I don't do any long runs but does anyone think that doing say, half of each of those distances would be ok for those two weeks?

Feels like a complete spanner has been thrown into the works now!!!

Glad to hear the shin splints are easing!

If you can work them in somehow it would be better for you, the long runs are the most important ones if you have to miss a run a shorter one would be better. if you miss both LSR and remember once they are gone they are gone, do not go chasing lost miles my concern would be your next LSR when you come home. What distance is the long run when you get home it might be a very big jump in distance and cause an injury which is what happened to me when I missed one LSR jumped from24km to 32km after missing a 27km lSR I ended up in physio with sore tendons in my feet and a bruised swollen ankle.

One option that may work and maybe someone more knowledgeable will be able to advise on how to approach it but, run for example: a session or progression run one day and a shorter LSR the following day but still within the correct mileage for that week which should give the same effect as an LSR on the legs!

Maybe that might be an option for you, but either way, I am sure there is a way to work around it

ted1

davinci88 wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

Hmmm

I did my first two marathons last year 4 weeks apart , had a bad winter running stayed back in April but had a spill on the bike , went out today after having a 6 week rest and f**k me 6 km was a struggle.

And I generally cycle 300km a week and swim 1.5km a day during lunch so would be relative fit. Didn’t bother with the 70.3 as it would be much different than a normal day ( well say 2 days)

Was the 6 weeks total inactivity ?

More or less. It was a bad shoulder dislocation.

No cycling ,no swimming , no running, no kitesurfing or rock climbing




According to the physio my sports choices are the worst for my shoulder

I commute 60km s day in the bike, swim 1.5km during lunch each day and would usually kitesurf, run or rock climb in the evening, none of which I could do
I managed to use stairmils and crossytrsiners

ted1

davinci88 wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

Hmmm

I did my first two marathons last year 4 weeks apart , had a bad winter running stayed back in April but had a spill on the bike , went out today after having a 6 week rest and f**k me 6 km was a struggle.

And I generally cycle 300km a week and swim 1.5km a day during lunch so would be relative fit. Didn’t bother with the 70.3 as it would be much different than a normal day ( well say 2 days)

Was the 6 weeks total inactivity ?

More or less. It was a bad shoulder dislocation.

No cycling ,no swimming , no running, no kitesurfing or rock climbing




According to the physio my sports choices are the worst for my shoulder

I commute 60km s day in the bike, swim 1.5km during lunch each day and would usually kitesurf, run or rock climb in the evening, none of which I could do
I managed to use stairmils and crossytrsiners

coogy

Baby75 wrote: »

Glad to hear the shin splints are easing!

If you can work them in somehow it would be better for you, the long runs are the most important ones if you have to miss a run a shorter one would be better. if you miss both LSR and remember once they are gone they are gone, do not go chasing lost miles my concern would be your next LSR when you come home. What distance is the long run when you get home it might be a very big jump in distance and cause an injury which is what happened to me when I missed one LSR jumped from24km to 32km after missing a 27km lSR I ended up in physio with sore tendons in my feet and a bruised swollen ankle.

One option that may work and maybe someone more knowledgeable will be able to advise on how to approach it but, run for example: a session or progression run one day and a shorter LSR the following day but still within the correct mileage for that week which should give the same effect as an LSR on the legs!

Maybe that might be an option for you, but either way, I am sure there is a way to work around it

Baby75, thanks for that.
If i did no lsr while away, I'd be jumping from a 14 mile before I leave to a 20 mile on my return.....not ideal!
I think a lot of my concern comes from worrying about how to find the time on holiday, especially with two kids to contend with but im gonna do my damndest!

OOnegative

coogy wrote: »

Baby75, thanks for that.
If i did no lsr while away, I'd be jumping from a 14 mile before I leave to a 20 mile on my return.....not ideal!
I think a lot of my concern comes from worrying about how to find the time on holiday, especially with two kids to contend with but im gonna do my damndest!

Try get your run done early while all are still in bed, have two kids under 8 myself and that’s what i’ve done past 3/4 years while on holidays. Jumping from 14 miles to 20 is asking for trouble IMO.

coogy

skyblue46 wrote: »

No need to be stressing yourself too much. It's nearly impossible to get through a marathon plan without real life getting in the way. Holidays, illness or injury will probably cause most people to miss a day or two. At the same time do your best not to miss them. Maybe get out at the crack of dawn when everyone else is still asleep?

Thanks skyblue

I'm determined to make it happen!!

😊

Lazare

davinci88 wrote: »

I came here honestly wanting to better myself for having done it wrong before !

So advice is cool abuse is not for those looking in !

The advice you've gotten is that purposely cutting out the most important element of training for over two months is an incorrect approach.

Your reasoning is flawed, LSRs break down what exactly?

Strong lungs and a strong heart are what's needed, and the most optimal training method by far is aerobic running. Long slow runs.

Bonkers to wilfully give up running with a marathon five months away. Absolutely bonkers.

Baby75

coogy wrote: »

Baby75, thanks for that.
If i did no lsr while away, I'd be jumping from a 14 mile before I leave to a 20 mile on my return.....not ideal!
I think a lot of my concern comes from worrying about how to find the time on holiday, especially with two kids to contend with but im gonna do my damndest!

I know how hard it is esp on holidays I have 7 kids but my eldest is 17 and a great lad and helps out a lot! getting out early on a Sunday morning for our LSR my hubby runs as well last year was the only way we could fit them in kids slept and only awake when we got back and then I had the day with them.

I know one day we brought the small kids to a forest and they walked played in the park with my hubby and I got in my run and then we had a picnic! that might be an option for you

plus being away it may be the coolest part of the day for you to run

Lazare

davinci88 wrote: »

Having done the mileage i have the last year i disagree!

LSR breaks down muscle ! The break is to rebuild and come back stronger and it will help with injury prevention !

Aerobic capacity doesnt just go away and i am maintaining my fitness ! I am just staying off the roads for a bit !

S&C certainly will help prevent injury sure, but inactivity in terms of running in the lead up to a plan will drive injury risk up.

Regarding the bolded bit, I think it's really important, for the sake of novices reading to stress that that statement is absolutely incorrect.

Long slow runs do NOT cause muscle wastage. Engaging a muscle builds it.

Good luck with your approach, I'm sorry but I think it's deeply flawed.

Baby75

davinci88 wrote: »

Having done the mileage i have the last year i disagree!

LSR breaks down muscle ! The break is to rebuild and come back stronger and it will help with injury prevention !

Aerobic capacity doesnt just go away and i am maintaining my fitness ! I am just staying off the roads for a bit !

LSR, Do not break down muscles!
Benefits include:
Strengthening muscles in legs, torso and arms
Teaching our bodies to burn fat for fuel
helps with running form
increases mitochondria in our muscles increasing the amount of glycogen stored and improve oxygen use.
Trains the cardio and muscular systems to work more efficiently
Lastly, helps train our minds to keep going through physical discomfort getting you ready for the Marathon itself

This is why it is important to slow down on LSR it should feel very easy and you should be able to hold a conversation and once you incorporate S&C they will help keep you injury free once you also run your easy runs easy.

Hard racing and not fueling correctly (a bad diet very low in protein) or not eating well after hard training can break down muscle.

I do agree with you on S&C and cycling keeping you fit and will help with injury prevention, but do not underestimate the benefit of easy runs getting that time on the feet and building a good running base prior to beginning Marathon training. I also have no doubt you will be fit enough to begin training for DCM but I had to comment on LSR

Lazare

^^ This.

Lazare

Ignoring the rant and answering your last question.

How do I reckon you should proceed in your efforts to train for a tough running event?

Run.

Baby75

davinci88 wrote: »

K

My statement is absoloutly true scientifically and since i was speaking personally it was an answer to a question regarding my current training and rehabilitation !

Regarding your statement its a huge generalisation , engaging a muscle builds it ?????????

Thats all youve got, really ! Elaborate !

I would warn novices to do some reseach and not listen to individuals who are out to shoot people down with clearly uneducated statements !

Good luck training high mileage and maintaining your muscle mass because the two dont work together , rebuilding strength in the gym and maintaining aeronic capacity still but just not running after a very high mileage year before going for a race again makes sense to me !

Have a conversation by all means , how do you reckon i should proceed !

With the greatest respect, can I ask how are you qualified to make the statements you have!

Do you understand when you are training for a marathon at the correct paces and following a plan you start at low mileage and build to your max then tapering well prior to the race (not run high mileage every week) ???
Will not lower muscle mass! training correctly will see you tone muscles but you will lose inches ( burning fat) So you will look slimmer but that is because you have strengthened muscles and burned off fat, in fact, if you are not trying to lose weight and training on a calorie deficit you may step on the scales and stay the same weight or weigh heavier.

Laraze has already trained well and completed a marathon and had a great race He is an example of what you can achieve if you approach training correctly

bucketybuck

Is this a wind up?

Lazare

davinci88 wrote: »

Thanks coach.

I have ran 2 marathons

Disastrously as per your own admission. Wonder what went wrong in your training approach.

sumsar

davinci88 wrote: »

OK I get it, outsiders not welcome.

some of You people should be ashamed of yourselves.

Good Luck.

I've not been commenting during your posts, but I have to point out the following;

It's not a case that outsiders are not welcome, it's a case that you've joined mentored novices thread and have argued against any advice people have offered you, it's not the advice you want to hear and unfortunately you're reacting badly to it.

Maybe the mentored novice thread is just not for you.. for me as a novice, and as someone who is happy to take on the advice of others, it's perfectly suited for me.

Best of luck with your marathon plan, but with your current attitude it's probably best you look for an alternative thread IMO.

Lazare

davinci88 wrote: »

OK I get it, outsiders not welcome.

some of You people should be ashamed of yourselves.

Good Luck.

You're totally welcome, it's bad advice that's not.

I know less than 10% of contributors to this thread.

Helenasca

I fear my question may have gotten a little lost amidst the recent flood of msgs!

So here I go again. I'm so grateful for the knowledge others here have gained and are willing to share with us marathon newbies


With the boards plan can I continue with what I'm doing in replacement of the lsr, so we have a 5k loop and are up to 15k at the moment. This increases by 2.5k each other wk. So 15k last wk and this week and 17.5k next wk etc. With an aim to reach 25k/30k continuously comfortably and maybe a little further nearer race day. Can I continue to do that or should I be pulling back to what the boards plan suggests each wk?

Baby75

Helenasca wrote: »

I fear my question may have gotten a little lost amidst the recent flood of msgs!

So here I go again. I'm so grateful for the knowledge others here have gained and are willing to share with us marathon newbies


With the boards plan can I continue with what I'm doing in replacement of the lsr, so we have a 5k loop and are up to 15k at the moment. This increases by 2.5k each other wk. So 15k last wk and this week and 17.5k next wk etc. With an aim to reach 25k/30k continuously comfortably and maybe a little further nearer race day. Can I continue to do that or should I be pulling back to what the boards plan suggests each wk?

Is it just your self or a club run for the loop! ideally, you should stick to the plan ( you will hear that a lot ) you are following as it won't be just the LSR increasing in distance each week so will midweek runs and as a novice, it would be better to stick with the planned mileage as it is not all about increasing every week the plans have weeks where mileage decreases to allow your body to adapt and recover . you would need to factor that in if you stick with what you are doing now! but if you go with the boards plan you will have an excellent base

skyblue46

Helenasca wrote: »

I fear my question may have gotten a little lost amidst the recent flood of msgs!

So here I go again. I'm so grateful for the knowledge others here have gained and are willing to share with us marathon newbies


With the boards plan can I continue with what I'm doing in replacement of the lsr, so we have a 5k loop and are up to 15k at the moment. This increases by 2.5k each other wk. So 15k last wk and this week and 17.5k next wk etc. With an aim to reach 25k/30k continuously comfortably and maybe a little further nearer race day. Can I continue to do that or should I be pulling back to what the boards plan suggests each wk?

I will partially disagree with the above advice. The advice given to me last year, which I found to be brilliant throughout the plan, was to continue as I had been doing and wait for the boards plan to catch up. The first few weeks of the plan will step from 8 to 15 miles quite quickly and will have reached the distances you will be running by then. At this point I would switch to broadly following the distances on the plan. This would be particularly important on step back weeks.

juke

I’ve been deliberately hiding from this thread. It’s time to nail my stripes.

I want to do a marathon before I’m 50. I’ve had my eye on DCM 2018 for a long time and entered the race series last year as a building block. I had hoped to be running 30k per week minimum by now, but that wasn’t to be. I’ve had a pretty rough couple of months and I lost my mojo for a while.

I think I’m back though, so no more procrastination New runners are ordered and I’m consigned to hearing my OH’s ‘I think you’re nuts’ comments for the next 5 months.

About me:
Female, 48, strong powerlifter, delinquant sailor and extremely slow runner. Probably also my own worst critic.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs?
5k (fastest, moons ago 30.02, most recent parkrun March 2018) 31.34
5m (Terenure 2017) 53.09
10k (Fingal 2017) 1.04.06
Half (DC 2017) 2.16.23

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training?
Only if lazy, and then, only on the inclines

How much training do you currently do?
Gym (strength training) 2-3 times a week, run x 2-4 times a week, including one longer run at the weekend.

What do you want to achieve?
Finish
Enjoy it
Know that I’ve given it my absolute best, regardless of the finishing time.

How many days a week can you train? Plan is to keep up the 2 days strength training for the first half anyway, so realistically, 4 days running. As the weeks pass, I’ll adjust and drop the 2nd gym day.

And what plan do you intend to follow? Open to suggestion. Playing about with the boards plan at the moment, but swapping out the Thursday ‘easy day’ as my 2nd gym day.

What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?
Being too slow (I know, I know )
That I’m not mentally strong enough
Getting injured

Why are you running this marathon?
To scratch the itch, to push myself as hard as I can.

Thanks ariana’, KellyGirl and skyblue46 and all other vets who are so generous with advice.

Now: off to read the last 13 off pages of this thread. Into the abyss :eek:

skyblue46

Welcome juke! I have no doubt you'll handle this challenge brilliantly. Anyone who can put their mind to a discipline like powerlifting for a period of time undoubtedly possesses the fortitude to make a good go of the marathon? How long has it been on your mind? Did you get in long before it sold out?

Being someone who has been totally bitten by the running bug in the 12 months since last years novice thread I hope you get the same enjoyment that I have.

Oh and you'll be one up on me when you complete DCM....I didn't do one before I was 50!! :pac: