8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

pleas advice

Grayson wrote: »

Take Savita. Pro lifers say that we don't need abortion because if she had received proper care she would have lived. They're half right.

the proper care, ie. an abortion, was available under the 8th

Then there's a woman who's brain dead. Her brain is actually rotting. Yet she's kept alive on an incubator because she's pregnant. That's another edge case.

that should never have happened.
the proper care, ie. taking her off life support, was available under the 8th.
it never was practical, or practicable, to keep her body alive in the condition it was in for a further two months from she was declared brain dead

PlaneSpeeking

pleas advice wrote: »

Grayson wrote: »

Take Savita. Pro lifers say that we don't need abortion because if she had received proper care she would have lived. They're half right.

the proper care, ie. an abortion, was available under the 8th

Then there's a woman who's brain dead. Her brain is actually rotting. Yet she's kept alive on an incubator because she's pregnant. That's another edge case.

that should never have happened.
the proper care, ie. taking her off life support, was available under the 8th.
it never was practical, or practicable, to keep her body alive in the condition it was in for a further two months from she was declared brain dead

Neither of the points you make there are true. Complete fabrications nay utter lies.

KKkitty

doylefe wrote: »

Oh I'm not voting at all

If you're not voting you don't have a voice so you know where the door is. Don't preach to anyone here or anywhere else for that matter if you're not going to even vote yourself on whether the 8th amendment is repealed or not.

Rjd2

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

I really think it's going to be a No vote in Donegal. Looking at some of the comments on an online county newspaper, it's a hysterical pit of "murderer", "babies" and other such emotive language from both men and women. The lies and inaccuracies are worrisome.

Think Donegal is safe for the No campaign. Paddy powers have betting on each constituency and its 1/7 for a no vote in Donegal. A little depressing looking at those odds tbh in how likely no might be in the west and north.

https://www.paddypower.com/politics?tab=8th-amendment

Zubeneschamali

Rjd2 wrote: »

A little depressing looking at those odds tbh in how likely no might be in the west and north.

Donegal was 82/18 in 1983 - there will be movement towards repeal, maybe not enough to swing Donegal on its own, but it is not an election, it is a national count. Every Yes vote in Donegal counts exactly the same way as a vote in Dublin South.

Zubeneschamali

sabat wrote: »

I'm embarrassed for him on many levels; regardless of where you stand on the issue that's just one of the most hysterical, sanctimonious, needy things I've ever read.

Perhaps if you consider that both he and his daughter were once helpless embryos in the womb of some murderous woman who is mostly transparent or not in the photograph you will be able to empathize.

Those seem to be the only lives you lot care about.

PlaneSpeeking

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

sabat wrote: »

I'm embarrassed for him on many levels; regardless of where you stand on the issue that's just one of the most hysterical, sanctimonious, needy things I've ever read.

Perhaps if you consider that both he and his daughter were once helpless embryos in the womb of some murderous woman who is mostly transparent or not in the photograph you will be able to empathize.

Those seem to be the only lives you lot care about.

This point x thousands.

erica74

pleas advice wrote: »

the proper care, ie. an abortion, was available under the 8th

that should never have happened.
the proper care, ie. taking her off life support, was available under the 8th.
it never was practical, or practicable, to keep her body alive in the condition it was in for a further two months from she was declared brain dead

There's a lot of "that should never have happened" from the antichoice side when it comes to these situations, a lot of you said the same about Savita, "that should never have happened", well getting rid of the 8th is how we prevent something like this from happening again. And if your response is "well the existing law is sufficient to prevent these situations", it's quite obviously not.

PlaneSpeeking

erica74 wrote: »

pleas advice wrote: »

the proper care, ie. an abortion, was available under the 8th

that should never have happened.
the proper care, ie. taking her off life support, was available under the 8th.
it never was practical, or practicable, to keep her body alive in the condition it was in for a further two months from she was declared brain dead

There's a lot of "that should never have happened" from the antichoice side when it comes to these situations, a lot of you said the same about Savita, "that should never have happened", well getting rid of the 8th is how we prevent something like this from happening again. And if your response is "well the existing law is sufficient to prevent these situations", it's quite obviously not.

My mother died of septicaemia (not pregnancy related of course) but an abscess wasn't spotted for several days meaning the poison had time to do it's work.

Imagine had the hospital spotted it and said "I'm sorry the abscess has the same rights as you. This is a Catholic country".

There would rightly be outrage!

Please note I am not diminishing pregnancy but once Savita's foetus was dying it effectively became a source of poison thst would - and sadly did - ultimately end her life.

Repeal The 8th.

ELM327

doylefe wrote: »

What a load of ****e, and using his daughter like that, should be ashamed of himself.

You absolute cretin.
What a disgusting comment.

Speaking as an autistic person I find your comment, your attitude and that of others of your ilk, abhorrent.

Ave Sodalis

Zubeneschamali wrote:

Donegal was 82/18 in 1983 - there will be movement towards repeal, maybe not enough to swing Donegal on its own, but it is not an election, it is a national count. Every Yes vote in Donegal counts exactly the same way as a vote in Dublin South.

Yes but it would still be very disappointing to see.

pitifulgod

doylefe wrote: »

Story makes no sense. You wanted to keep the baby so are backing a vote which would have made it more convenient for you to get rid of the baby?

If that's the only thing you got from her story then I suspect you're not worth interacting with.

bloodless_coup

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Yes but it would still be very disappointing to see.

What people making thier own mind up?

PlaneSpeeking

doylefe wrote: »

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Yes but it would still be very disappointing to see.

What people making thier own mind up?

When the No side stops lying in posters and other media and having offensive posters come here solely to make mischief - then I might agree with you that people "making their own minds up" is what we are striving for.

Your side wants to unfairly influence others with lies. You're trying to make their minds up for them.

swampgas

doylefe wrote: »

What people making thier own mind up?

Yes. It's always a bit depressing to think that so many of your fellow citizens are prepared to put ignorance and religious ideology above the human rights and happiness of the people around them.

It was the same with contraception and divorce, and with marriage equality - so many people smugly satisfied to trample all over the rights of anyone who didn't conform to their rigid and archaic view of how life should be lived.

Small minds are easily frightened by change.

bloodless_coup

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

When the No side stops lying in posters and other media and having offensive posters come here solely to make mischief - then I might agree with you that people "making their own minds up" is what we are striving for.

Your side wants to unfairly influence others with lies. You're trying to make their minds up for them.

My side? What side is that?

_Dara_

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

I really think it's going to be a No vote in Donegal. Looking at some of the comments on an online county newspaper, it's a hysterical pit of "murderer", "babies" and other such emotive language from both men and women. The lies and inaccuracies are worrisome.

Donegal will be a definite No. Was one of the closest to No for the SSM ref. There will be a lot more No counties than Roscommon-Leitrim this time round. I’m hoping the urban areas will swing it for Yes.

ELM327

doylefe wrote: »

What a load of ****e, and using his daughter like that, should be ashamed of himself.

I see you've dodged this response to your post, so I'll be helpful and highlight it again for your reference. Any response, or are you pleading the 5th / the RobertKK clause?

ELM327 wrote: »

You absolute cretin.
What a disgusting comment.

Speaking as an autistic person I find your comment, your attitude and that of others of your ilk, abhorrent.

doylefe wrote: »

My side? What side is that?

Come off it.

ELM327

_Dara_ wrote: »

Donegal will be a definite No. Was one of the closest to No for the SSM ref. There will be a lot more No counties than Roscommon-Leitrim this time round. I’m hoping the urban areas will swing it for Yes.

Yes we're relying on the GDA and other civilised groups to carry this for the country.
Donegal always votes no to everything. Except SSM but it was one of the lowest YES votes.

PlaneSpeeking

doylefe wrote: »

My side? What side is that?

Well dear, despite the fact that you are playing along for some reason - attention I'd guess - I'll answer you.

That would be the side that calls a concerned parent of a disabled daughter "sh**e" because they have so little heart they don't care about the actually born - just the may be born.

PlaneSpeeking

_Dara_ wrote: »

Donegal will be a definite No. Was one of the closest to No for the SSM ref. There will be a lot more No counties than Roscommon-Leitrim this time round. I’m hoping the urban areas will swing it for Yes.

I'm Laois/Offaly and the sheer number of No posters (and lies contained within) are scary - I think we passed Equal Marriage 58-42 which was higher than some imagined.

I think some rural areas will be fine. Perhaps not Roscommon!

pjohnson

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes we're relying on the GDA and other civilised groups to carry this for the country.
Donegal always votes no to everything. Except SSM but it was one of the lowest YES votes.

GDA?

JupiterKid

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

I really think it's going to be a No vote in Donegal. Looking at some of the comments on an online county newspaper, it's a hysterical pit of "murderer", "babies" and other such emotive language from both men and women. The lies and inaccuracies are worrisome.

Well, apart from the SSM referendum result in 2015, in terms of other referenda on social issues, Donegal has consistently been the most socially conservative, anti-progress county in this country. Almost certainly linked to it being adjacent to NI and its remoteness.

I would be extremely surprised if a yes result happens in Donegal, or much of rural Ireland for that matter. It’s the turnout in Dublin and the other major urban areas and their commuter belts (and the youth vote) that will be critical to the outcome of this referendum.

PlaneSpeeking

pjohnson wrote: »

GDA?

I think Greater Dublin Area.

robarmstrong

Lads - I know there's a certain poster that is seemingly getting under your skin, but try not resort to name-calling, it'll only serve the purpose of getting some good pro-choice posters threadbanned/getting the thread locked which would be detrimental to the discussion and paint us in a negative light by taking the bait/letting it get to us.

Not tryna be a mod here but don't stoop to their level by calling them cretins, I'd hate to see anyone here get threadbanned over crap like this and will make it seem as if the pro-choice crowd resort to name-calling because some certain individuals don't get what we have to say.

Be mature about it, play the ball, not the man, point out flaws/inaccuracies/lies or even use the subtle digs aimed at us as a means to educate those on-the-fence people on what's really happening in these discussions.

We've had pro-life individuals suggest rape committees, mass hysterectomies and vasectomies, conspiracy theories that repealing the 8th will help Sharia Law in England, anyone on the fence will see these ideas and thoughts and will have their minds made up, so please don't stoop back into name-calling, we're kinda better than that.

JupiterKid

pjohnson wrote: »

GDA?

GDA - Greater Dublin Area. Namely the four Dublin local authority areas, Kildare, Meath and Wicklow. It’s been a recognized term for nearly 20 years now.

ELM327

robarmstrong wrote: »

Lads - I know there's a certain poster that is seemingly getting under your skin, but try not resort to name-calling, it'll only serve the purpose of getting some good pro-choice posters threadbanned/getting the thread locked which would be detrimental to the discussion and paint us in a negative light by taking the bait/letting it get to us.

Not tryna be a mod here but don't stoop to their level by calling them cretins, I'd hate to see anyone here get threadbanned over crap like this and will make it seem as if the pro-choice crowd resort to name-calling because some certain individuals don't get what we have to say.

Be mature about it, play the ball, not the man, point out flaws/inaccuracies/lies or even use the subtle digs aimed at us as a means to educate those on-the-fence people on what's really happening in these discussions.

We've had pro-life individuals suggest rape committees, mass hysterectomies and vasectomies, conspiracy theories that repealing the 8th will help Sharia Law in England, anyone on the fence will see these ideas and thoughts and will have their minds made up, so please don't stoop back into name-calling, we're kinda better than that.

Generally I agree with this however the post made by that cretin warranted the use of the word cretin. And the attitude shown to the parent of the autistic child was shocking. Why should they have to ask the country what is best for their child?

I'm lucky that my autism is not an intellectual disability for me, I'm merely affected by other issues like emotional regulation, social interactions and black and white thinking. But I know of others - children in my extended family for instance - who are intellectually affected by more severe autism and the accounts he gives about the way the child is affected is bang on. He could be talking about my nephew.

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I'm Laois/Offaly and the sheer number of No posters (and lies contained within) are scary - I think we passed Equal Marriage 58-42 which was higher than some imagined.

I think some rural areas will be fine. Perhaps not Roscommon!

Don't forget, the NO posters are paid for by americans, the yes posters are mostly crowdfunded, especially the early ones. So - whenever you see a YES poster without a party affiliation, remember, someone has paid for that from their own money. I know I've paid for a couple!

_Dara_

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I'm Laois/Offaly and the sheer number of No posters (and lies contained within) are scary - I think we passed Equal Marriage 58-42 which was higher than some imagined.

I think some rural areas will be fine. Perhaps not Roscommon!

I’m expecting No in Donegal, Mayo, Cavan-Monaghan, Roscommon and maybe Sligo-Leitrim. There’ll be others too, I’m sure.

ELM327

_Dara_ wrote: »

I’m expecting No in Donegal, Mayo, Cavan-Monaghan, Roscommon and maybe Sligo-Leitrim. There’ll be others too, I’m sure.

I'm expecting no in most non urban centres.
Cork, Galway, Dublin and the GDA will probably vote yes. But.... they need to win by 60:40 to cover the rest of the rural vote. My vote is in the GDA but not dublin.

PlaneSpeeking

robarmstrong wrote: »

Lads - I know there's a certain poster that is seemingly getting under your skin, but try not resort to name-calling, it'll only serve the purpose of getting some good pro-choice posters threadbanned/getting the thread locked which would be detrimental to the discussion and paint us in a negative light by taking the bait/letting it get to us.

Not tryna be a mod here but don't stoop to their level by calling them cretins, I'd hate to see anyone here get threadbanned over crap like this and will make it seem as if the pro-choice crowd resort to name-calling because some certain individuals don't get what we have to say.

Be mature about it, play the ball, not the man, point out flaws/inaccuracies/lies or even use the subtle digs aimed at us as a means to educate those on-the-fence people on what's really happening in these discussions.

We've had pro-life individuals suggest rape committees, mass hysterectomies and vasectomies, conspiracy theories that repealing the 8th will help Sharia Law in England, anyone on the fence will see these ideas and thoughts and will have their minds made up, so please don't stoop back into name-calling, we're kinda better than that.

Good advice Rob!

I'm idly curious I have to say - there's a poster who isn't commenting but who thanks EVERY single "No" post, even the dodgy one, but doesn't comment.

I'm not delving of course, not my place but I am curious!!