8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

gctest50

spookwoman wrote: »

I think they still burn witches there

They'll be basing Deliverance 2 going on what Des was coming out with :

[“we are certainly not n****rs like in the eyes of the south of the United States, " - Des Mc Guikian

Overheal

I live in the Southern US. The **** is he on about.

wexie

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Many, many posters here have said they would like to vote Yes for rape or FFA, but can't because of abortion on demand - but that is the wrong way around. If they vote Yes and remove the 8th we can legislate for FFA and rape. For aboriton on demand. For whatever we want. Lobby your TD. Vote FF. Whatever you want.

While the 8th is in place, we cannot legislate at all.

That's what really gets me. And I think a lot of people simply don't understand this.

There have been a lot of 'pro-life/anti-choice' people on here saying :

well.....eh....I'd like to see some changes made, but I don't like this whole 12 week thing.

So I'm gonna vote no

me, silently, in my head :

BUT THEN YOU CAN"T HAVE CHANGE!!!!
VOTE YES AND THEN LOBBY, ARGUE, CAJOLE!!!!
DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO BUT VOTE YES YOU DUMB SCHMUCK!!!!***

*** in case it's not absolutely clear this is me interpreting my internal dialogue and not calling anyone in particular a dumb schmuck, although I do absolutely and wholeheartedly reserve the right to think some people are dumb schmucks

wexie

Overheal wrote: »

I live in the Southern US. The **** is he on about.

Invite him over, let him have a rant like that in public.

Let us know how he get's on

Mint Sauce

gctest50 wrote: »

Des mcGuckian ? he should be taken out and tarred and feathered



http://www.thejournal.ie/des-guckian-n-word-council-meeting-leitrim-3735185-Dec2017/

Is he from another planet altogether?

yourdeadwright

Sofiztikated wrote: »

You said originally you are abstaining, and have since said many times that you are OK with Repealing.

But on every post you have reamed off the standard Prolife stick.

I think you need to be honest with yourself.

Yes im obstaining but doesnt mean i dont agree

joe40

I wonder what this debate would be like if the question was simply to repeal the 8th as it is, but without the accompanying proposed legislation. I know they are separate entities, but in many minds if the referendum is passed the legislation will pass. So they are linked.
Would the referendum have a better chance, if legislation proposals were left until after the vote.
I suspect in the absence of any proposed laws the scaremongering would have gone into overdrive and the whole "I don't trust the government" spiel would be very vocal.
Moot point but I just wonder what the effect would have been

yourdeadwright

SusieBlue wrote: »

Just to be clear, you are saying that in the 1940’s in Ireland, at a time when the church ruled the roost (go forth and multiply), at a time when contraception was illegal, marital rape was allowed and women had little to no rights, public respect or standing, that ‘many people’ had only the number of children then wanted.

Are you serious???????

How could she take responsibility? And don’t say ‘don’t have sex’. Marital rape was legal so that advice is useless. What’s your advice to her?

Marital rape was the cause not the 8th , Her husband being a pig was the cause not the 8th ,
The 8th was something after the fact , and yes i dont mind the Yes vote

Mint Sauce

@wexie

Unable to quote the quotes in your post, but the 12 week thing does sit uncomfortably with me too, as also mainly only for abortions, where this is a risk to life, or none viable pregnancies, due to fatal abnormalities, or rape/incest.

But I am off the mind, at least it will mean that girls are not making journeys to the UK, maybe without suitable follow up, or even worst, getting back street abortions here, with no follow up.

My personal opinion, voting yes, does not mean you are pro abortion, or even pro choice, but you are for womens health and well being.

yourdeadwright

January wrote: »

So you're basically saying if you don't want to have a baby, don't have sex? Do I have that right?

You're not for yes at all, so stop lying.

Sorry my argument here is that nothing to do with Yes or No its the fact people blaming other shameful acts on the 8th , when they are just shameful acts ,

Im ok with voting YES , im not ok with people making **** up

wexie

Mint Sauce wrote: »

@wexie
My personal opinion, voting yes, does not mean you are pro abortion, or even pro choice, but you are for womens health and well being.

that's exactly it, I actually don't think I know anybody who likes abortions, or thinks they are a good thing and wouldn't like to see the amount of them minimized.

But that doesn't mean that on occasion they aren't the lesser of 2 evils.

yourdeadwright

Sofiztikated wrote: »

You said originally you are abstaining, and have since said many times that you are OK with Repealing.

But on every post you have reamed off the standard Prolife stick.

I think you need to be honest with yourself.

i am ok im fine with the yes vote , Im not fine with people blaming shameful acts such as rape in marrage on the 8th,
Removing it wont make such acts less shameful thats why i keep repeating people need to responsible with or without the 8th

yourdeadwright

yourdeadwright wrote: »

i am ok im fine with the yes vote

So why are you abstaining then?

yourdeadwright

Mint Sauce wrote: »

To many pages to read back on, but did any catch this fellas comments earlier?

Sex slavery will be normalised if 8th Amendment is repealed, claims Leitrim councillor

Basically saying if abortion is readily available, girls will be expected to have sex, and sex slavery will be normalised. Also brings in Hitler, and the Hipocratic Oath.

Shoke my head is disbelief listening to it.

As crazy as the above is if you read the lasf few pages , People Making out because of the 8th there was rape in marrage ,
Yes vote is fine but you can see why people are being turned off voting , there hurting themselfs

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

yourdeadwright wrote: »

i am ok im fine with the yes vote , Im not fine with people blaming shameful acts such as rape in marrage on the 8th,
Removing it wont make such acts less shameful thats why i keep repeating people need to responsible with or without the 8th

One unpleasant thing can compound another unpleasant thing and be relevant to the same situation without causing it, I'm not seeing anyone "blaming" marital rape on the 8th. Blaming means something, and you have to do more than use two words in the same sentence to do it.

I've a headache right now, and there's not much I can do about it because a) my partner accidentally took my bankcard to work with him and b) the only nearby pharmacy is closed. These things make the situation worse, but I shouldn't have to explain that I'm not blaming my headache on them.

And "be responsible" and "be celibate" are also two things that have different meanings, btw. Just used interchangeably by anti-repeal people though.

Billy86

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Basically saying if abortion is readily available, girls will be expected to have sex, and sex slavery will be normalised. Also brings in Hitler, and the Hipocratic Oath.

As per usual always, the resident lunatics on the no side have got it so far wrong that they've wound up proving a point the yes side were never even making.

Abortion when the mother's health was in serious danger was legalised in Germany during the Weimar Republic - almost a full century ago - until the Nazis made it a capital offense to abort a healthy, Aryan child. Instead they gave our national medals of honour depending on how many Aryan babies a woman could pump out (4 for bronze, 6 for silver, 8 for gold).

So to any 'no' voters taking glee in this idiots comments, just remember you're getting that enjoyment from being on the same side of history as Hitler.

Billy86

yourdeadwright wrote: »

i am ok im fine with the yes vote , Im not fine with people blaming shameful acts such as rape in marrage on the 8th,
Removing it wont make such acts less shameful thats why i keep repeating people need to responsible with or without the 8th

yourdeadwright wrote: »

As crazy as the above is if you read the lasf few pages , People Making out because of the 8th there was rape in marrage ,
Yes vote is fine but you can see why people are being turned off voting , there hurting themselfs

I must have missed these comments, could you point me to them please?

I will fully admit I am just skimming. I have seen another poster pointed out that it was legal to rape your wife in Ireland up until the start of the 90s and have also said as much myself. But I don't see where anyone said anything along the lines of "husbands raped their wives and it's the 8th amendments' fault!" which it appears you are claiming?

spookwoman

No one is saying that the 8th is the reason for rape in marriage so stop twisting things.

yourdeadwright wrote: »

As crazy as the above is if you read the lasf few pages , People Making out because of the 8th there was rape in marrage ,
Yes vote is fine but you can see why people are being turned off voting , there hurting themselfs

the original post was

Dressing gown wrote: »

Love both? It doesn’t make sense. I have an alternative for you. Love your mother.

I’m from a very big family. My mum only wanted 3 kids. But thanks to our lovely country and the old views on contraception she ended up with loads of kids. She is now in her early 70s. Two of my siblings are still dependent on her and may never be able to earn their own livings for medical reasons. She has worked her ass off her whole life. She doesn’t know how to relax. She is institutionalised to care for everyone else. I wish she could have had a really enjoyable life. I wish she only had the three kids she wanted. Guess what. That means I wouldn’t not have been born. But I’d also be none the wiser. Don’t get me wrong I’m glad I’m here. But I love my mum a lot and I wish her whole life hadn’t and didn’t continue to be such a slog. How’s that for a selfish yes voter? My mum deserved better than than the laws this country and its church imposed on her. I love my mum. Love both is gobbledegook. We can do better than that. Love your mother.

you replied with

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Eh I agree with Yes voters but your mother didn't have to have sex,
How is it the countries fault she had that many kids ?

someone brought up marital rape for those times and that we dont know what was happening in homes. No mention that the 8th was to blame.

bootpaws wrote: »

Marital rape was legal in Ireland until 1990. You have no idea what could have happened in these people's lives.

another mention of women being forced to have sex

bootpaws wrote: »

I'd also like to add that my grandmother, while parenting 11 young children, once told my granddad that she was refusing to have sex with him because she didn't want anymore.

He went right to the church and told the local priest, who called my grandmother down to have a chat about her duties as a wife.

Things are never so simple, and they certainly weren't back then.

then you come in with

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I had two set of grand parents much older than 70  and my parents are older than 70, and none had these issues, These are not issues caused by the 8th, for godsake,
I'm all for voting YES but keep it sensible

As stated above in other posts not every woman had a choice to have 1 2 or 3 children back then and again no one is blaming the 8th for marital rape

yourdeadwright

Esmeralda Inexpensive Balloonist wrote: »

One unpleasant thing can compound another unpleasant thing and be relevant to the same situation without causing it, I'm not seeing anyone "blaming" marital rape on the 8th. Blaming means something, and you have to do more than use two words in the same sentence to do it.

I've a headache right now, and there's not much I can do about it because a) my partner accidentally took my bankcard to work with him and b) the only nearby pharmacy is closed. These things make the situation worse, but I shouldn't have to explain that I'm not blaming my headache on them.

And "be responsible" and "be celibate" are also two things that have different meanings, btw. Just used interchangeably by anti-repeal people though.

I saying vote Yes by all means but lets not forget about

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I saying vote Yes by all means but lets not forget about

Sure, and I'm saying I believe you. All evidence would point to the contrary, but I'm saying it so it must be true.

pitifulgod

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I saying vote Yes by all means but lets not forget about

You've misrepresented entirely what was said in relation to marital rape. You've also been entirely judgemental of women who had more children than they wanted.

yourdeadwright

spookwoman wrote: »

No one is saying that the 8th is the reason for rape in marriage so stop twisting things.



the original post was



you replied with



someone brought up marital rape for those times and that we dont know what was happening in homes. No mention that the 8th was to blame.


another mention of women being forced to have sex



then you come in with

As stated above in other posts not every woman had a choice to have 1 2 or 3 children back then and again no one is blaming the 8th for marital rape

Orginal poster never mentioned marital rape , She simply said her mother wanted 3 kids but had 7 dues to contraception and its the countries fault ,

Whats that got to do with the 8th ???

I said be more resonsible , If its rape dont blame the countey blame your grand father for being a rapist ,
Its pretty straight forward ,

ArmaniJeanss

joe40 wrote: »

I wonder what this debate would be like if the question was simply to repeal the 8th as it is, but without the accompanying proposed legislation. I know they are separate entities, but in many minds if the referendum is passed the legislation will pass. So they are linked.
Would the referendum have a better chance, if legislation proposals were left until after the vote.
I suspect in the absence of any proposed laws the scaremongering would have gone into overdrive and the whole "I don't trust the government" spiel would be very vocal.
Moot point but I just wonder what the effect would have been

Something along the lines of 'if only the government had suggested legislation for a reasonable time period, maybe the first 10/12 weeks, with a 72 hour cooling off period, then I could have voted Yes. But the failure to say what they are going to do makes me super suspicious of what their immediate plans are. It could be anything. So I have to vote No.'.

Overheal

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Orginal poster never mentioned marital rape , She simply said her mother wanted 3 kids but had 7 dues to contraception and its the countries fault ,

Whats that got to do with the 8th ???

I said be more resonsible , If its rape dont blame the countey blame your grand father for being a rapist ,
Its pretty straight forward ,

If it’s rape, and you choose to terminate it but the country says NO you have to keep it, then it is the country’s fault. Pretty straightforward.

yourdeadwright

pitifulgod wrote: »

You've misrepresented entirely what was said in relation to marital rape. You've also been entirely judgemental of women who had more children than they wanted.

iv repeatdly said dont blame the country like she did , If it was rape blame the rapist if its your own fault then its your own fault ,
Not the countries

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

Pro-lifers would like to change the mindset, not jail women, being vindictive is not how one changes minds.

You might want to mention this to your friend Justin Barrett then, he seems to have gone off script

Overheal

yourdeadwright wrote: »

iv repeatdly said dont blame the country like she did , If it was rape blame the rapist if its your own fault then its your own fault ,
Not the countries

If the country forces you to keep it then it is the country’s fault you remain pregnant.

yourdeadwright

Overheal wrote: »

If it’s rape, and you choose to terminate it but the country says NO you have to keep it, then it is the country’s fault. Pretty straightforward.

She never said it was rape so i agree pretty straight forward her own responsibilt

pitifulgod

yourdeadwright wrote: »

iv repeatdly said dont blame the country like she did , If it was rape blame the rapist if its your own fault then its your own fault ,
Not the countries

Forcing a woman to continue a pregnancy against her will via the legal processis in fact the country's fault... Anyway, I suspect you're trying to drive this topic off course so I'm gonna ignore you for remainder of the month.

Overheal

yourdeadwright wrote: »

She never said it was rape so i agree pretty straight forward her own responsibilt

You misunderstand.

Every pregnancy that the law of the land forces you to carry, that is against your own choices, is then the fault and responsibility of the country.