8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

ASISEEIT · 05-05-2018 4:09pm

eviltwin wrote: »

Abortion isn't available to rape victims here

If a woman is suicidal she has a right to an abortion. Most rape victins are suicidal. The whole rape issue is a Trojan horse for abortion on demand. I know a man who is the child of rape. His mother decided to have him. If she didn't England was an option.
The numbers of rape pregnancies are so small that it should not figure in this debate and before you beat your breast and say " its important to the 12 women who needed it " we still allow booze despite it killing thousands prematurely every year among other things this state tolerates

Topgear on Dave · 05-05-2018 4:10pm

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Well this is somewhat amusing, somewhat scary, and a whole lot cultish...

https://www.facebook.com/ROSALimerick/videos/185621482084641/?hc_ref=ARSiuYjHgMcNMuaciABebTPPeZmGKNcAsi-nfosq59n9qeUoK4iwiXUtUQ_3HJDDxT0

Yes that will really bring along the floating voter. :rolleyes:

The no campaign is quite amazingly bad sometimes.

Ave Sodalis · 05-05-2018 4:12pm

ASISEEIT wrote: »

If a woman is suicidal she has a right to an abortion. Most rape victins are suicidal. The whole rape issue is a Trojan horse for abortion on demand. I know a man who is the child of rape. His mother decided to have him. If she didn't England is an option.

Good for his mother that she decided to have him. It was also nice that she had the means to go to England if she didn't choose to have him. How exactly is the 8th stopping your so called Trojan horse scenario though, given that you acknowledge England is an option for many people?

ASISEEIT · 05-05-2018 4:15pm

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Good for his mother that she decided to have him. It was also nice that she had the means to go to England if she didn't choose to have him. How exactly is the 8th stopping your so called Trojan horse scenario though, given that you acknowledge England is an option for many people?

Its stopping it here . Only a fool would say that having abortion available here would not increase numbers of women having abortions. Its like saying that having more pubs and off licenses doesn't increase alcholism

Ave Sodalis · 05-05-2018 4:17pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Yes that will really bring along the floating voter. :rolleyes:

The no campaign is quite amazingly bad sometimes.

When all else fails, bring out the Catholic guilt. The communion girls were an nice touch, I'm sure they understood what was going on. Maybe they should have left the alter boys at home though. No use in bring them out when you're trying to be morally superior, it might remind people of what certain members of their gang do to living, breathing children.

amcalester · 05-05-2018 4:18pm

ASISEEIT wrote: »

If a woman is suicidal she has a right to an abortion. Most rape victins are suicidal. The whole rape issue is a Trojan horse for abortion on demand. I know a man who is the child of rape. His mother decided to have him. If she didn't England was an option.
The numbers of rape pregnancies are so small that it should not figure in this debate and before you beat your breast and say " its important to the 12 women who needed it " we still allow booze despite it killing thousands prematurely every year among other things this state tolerates

Most rape victims are suicidal?

Can you back that up? You’ve made a few claims here today, any evidence to back them up?

Particularly that most rape victims are suicudal and on the number of pregnancies resulting from rape.

Sofiztikated · 05-05-2018 4:18pm

ASISEEIT wrote: »

When you scrape a baby-arms ,legs,head-yes it is scraped or sucked out=dont kid yourselves-it recoils/try to defend herself/himself. This is the reality of abortion. Dont hide from it

ASISEEIT wrote: »

If a woman is suicidal she has a right to an abortion. Most rape victins are suicidal. The whole rape issue is a Trojan horse for abortion on demand. I know a man who is the child of rape. His mother decided to have him. If she didn't England is an option.

ASISEEIT wrote: »

What facts ? Is just stating you have 'facts' an argument now?

Well firstly, you are stating incorrectly what an abortion entails, at 12 weeks.

Secondly, you are a hypocrite, stating that if she wanted an abortion, she could go to England. Why, if you believe what you say, is his life worth less in a different country?

I'd also like to see you statistics for claiming most rape victims are suicidal. And also question the Love Both theory then, as forcing a woman, which is now suicidal, to continue with a pregnancy doesn't seem like loving either.

ASISEEIT · 05-05-2018 4:19pm

PhoenixParker wrote: »

I am not sure where Nettle Soup is getting their figures from, they are not what the Rape Crisis themselves have in their own report.

This is the 2013 report for the Rape Crisis Centre which on page 24 says they counselled 75 women who became pregnant as a result of rape in that year alone.

http://www.rcni.ie/wp-content/uploads/RCNI-National-Statistics-2013.pdf

And that's only the people they counselled.

Taking into account the age of consent, one can also look at the number of women who give birth before the age of 17 (about 100 a year according to the CSO) and the number attending for abortion in the UK in the under 17 age bracket (somewhere between 10 and 66).

There are several women a week facing the issue of pregnancy as a result of rape. Many of them do choose not to abort, but the idea that they should be forced to go through with the pregnancy is abhorrent.

Claiming rape and actually being raped are two very different things. The child growing who will recoil in self defence as its scraped out is not to figure in your thinking at all ? The innocent?
If a woman was genuinely raped let her go to England as there is no definitive way of proving she was ? Is there ?

ASISEEIT · 05-05-2018 4:21pm

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Well firstly, you are stating incorrectly what an abortion entails, at 12 weeks.

Secondly, you are a hypocrite, stating that if she wanted an abortion, she could go to England. Why, if you believe what you say, is his life worth less in a different country?

I'd also like to see you statistics for claiming most rape victims are suicidal. And also question the Love Both theory then, as forcing a woman, which is now suicidal, to continue with a pregnancy doesn't seem like loving either.

If a woman claims she is suicidal she can get an abortion but you are right i have no definite statistics on it. Rape is a Trojan horse for the abortion on demand brigade

PhoenixParker · 05-05-2018 4:22pm

ASISEEIT wrote: »

Its stopping it here . Only a fool would say that having abortion available here would not increase numbers of women having abortions. Its like saying that having more pubs and off licenses doesn't increase alcholism

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1363/psrh.12015

No strong evidence that restrictions in abortion access lead to reduced abortion rates.

Abortion incidence can also decline if women who want abortions are unable to obtain them; abortion restrictions have the potential to reduce abortion incidence by impeding access to services. Between 2008 and 2011, some 24 states enacted 106 abortion restrictions.2 However, no strong evidence exists that these restrictions were the main factor behind the decline in abortion.

The situation in many parts of the US is similar to here, i.e. where a woman has to spend money and undertake an inconvenient journey to access abortion.

When they study it, it doesn't have a clear impact.

Wrongway1985 · 05-05-2018 4:23pm

ASISEEIT wrote: »

What facts ? Is just stating you have 'facts' an argument now?

Comment is clearly tongue in cheek in relation to No posters (which poster quoted) which a number have statements on them that simply aren't fact at all.

Hmmm...proven facts v illogical reason I wonder who I'd back there? :pac:

wexie · 05-05-2018 4:25pm

ASISEEIT wrote: »

Claiming rape and actually being raped are two very different things.

So what are you claiming? That these women went to the rape crisis centre to claim they were raped so they could avail of an abortion?

And the rape crisis center didn't realise this?

ASISEEIT wrote: »

The child growing who will recoil in self defence as its scraped out is not to figure in your thinking at all ?

No because that is not what happens before 12 weeks

ASISEEIT wrote: »

If a woman was genuinely raped let her go to England as there is no definitive way of proving she was ? Is there ?

.......love both ey? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sofiztikated · 05-05-2018 4:26pm

PhoenixParker wrote: »

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1363/psrh.12015

No strong evidence that restrictions in abortion access lead to reduced abortion rates.

The situation in many parts of the US is similar to here, i.e. where a woman has to spend money and undertake an inconvenient journey to access abortion.

When they study it, it doesn't have a clear impact.

Look at Poland, and it's harsh restrictions. Officially 1000 happen a year in the country, but up to 150,000 happens regardless.

Wrongway1985 · 05-05-2018 4:32pm

ASISEEIT wrote: »

Its stopping it here . Only a fool would say that having abortion available here would not increase numbers of women having abortions. Its like saying that having more pubs and off licenses doesn't increase alcholism

Of course they will increase as it stands the figure is 0 legal abortions taking place. Illegal abortions (as things stand) will be accounted for along with the 10 women per day who travel outside the country to have one. Only a fool would suggest abortion can be as addictive as alcoholic beverages.

Sofiztikated · 05-05-2018 4:34pm

ASISEEIT wrote: »

Claiming rape and actually being raped are two very different things. The child growing who will recoil in self defence as its scraped out is not to figure in your thinking at all ? The innocent?
If a woman was genuinely raped let her go to England as there is no definitive way of proving she was ? Is there ?

So you are literally saying:

So you were raped, put through a physical, emotional and mental wringer, and not only that, but became pregnant as a result? Feels bad n all, get the boat though, it's probably better than the plane, what with you having had a medical procedure and all.

amcalester · 05-05-2018 4:38pm

Sofiztikated wrote: »

So you are literally saying:

So you were raped, put through a physical, emotional and mental wringer, and not only that, but became pregnant as a result? Feels bad n all, get the boat though, it's probably better than the plane, what with you having had a medical procedure and all.

Love Boat

ASISEEIT · 05-05-2018 4:40pm

Rape is a red herring on this issue.

amcalester · 05-05-2018 4:43pm

ASISEEIT wrote: »

Rape is a red herring on this issue.

Not for the women affected.

Sofiztikated · 05-05-2018 4:43pm

ASISEEIT wrote: »

Rape is a red herring on this issue.

Please do continue.

ASISEEIT · 05-05-2018 4:44pm

wexie wrote: »

So what are you claiming? That these women went to the rape crisis centre to claim they were raped so they could avail of an abortion?

And the rape crisis center didn't realise this?

No because that is not what happens before 12 weeks

.......love both ey? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Legislation provides for abortion after 12 weeks. You do know this? Please explain in detail how abortions are carried out. Im not sure you have a clue

kylith · 05-05-2018 4:45pm

ASISEEIT wrote: »

Rape is a red herring on this issue.

And the 2 pregnancies a day diagnosed with FFA, or the thousands of women annually who are denied a say in their medical treatment?

amcalester · 05-05-2018 4:46pm

ASISEEIT wrote: »

Legislation provides for abortion after 12 weeks. You do know this? Please explain in detail how abortions are carried out. Im not sure you have a clue

Abortion after 12 weeks is a red herring.

ASISEEIT · 05-05-2018 4:47pm

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Please do continue.

No. Its obvious . Numbers tiny but the pro suck out the baby and put in a miniature body bag brigade want to focus on less than .001% pregnancies so we can go ahead and slaughter 20% of babies like they do in Uk.

Captain Obvious · 05-05-2018 4:49pm

ASISEEIT wrote: »

If a woman is suicidal she has a right to an abortion. Most rape victins are suicidal. The whole rape issue is a Trojan horse for abortion on demand. I know a man who is the child of rape. His mother decided to have him. If she didn't England was an option.
The numbers of rape pregnancies are so small that it should not figure in this debate and before you beat your breast and say " its important to the 12 women who needed it " we still allow booze despite it killing thousands prematurely every year among other things this state tolerates

You seem to be just making up everything you post then backing it up with anecdotal evidence while at the same time dismissing facts and anecdotal evidence of others.

ASISEEIT · 05-05-2018 4:51pm

kylith wrote: »

And the 2 pregnancies a day diagnosed with FFA, or the thousands of women annually who are denied a say in their medical treatment?

Ah FFA yes it is another red herring as you won't find a widely acceptable agreement in the medical community on what FFA is. Many kids walking around today who were told they would not survive birth. Furthermore a lot of parents think it more humane to give a child life;name etc instead of abortion

wexie · 05-05-2018 4:51pm

ASISEEIT wrote: »

Legislation provides for abortion after 12 weeks. You do know this? Please explain in detail how abortions are carried out. Im not sure you have a clue

Sadly I'd have to tell you I've a lot more of a clue then I'd like.

And yes I do know the legislation provides for abortion after 12 weeks, which will likely end up being a very small number.

And I think it's a good thing it allows for that option when needed.

What's your point?

Nettle Soup · 05-05-2018 4:53pm

ASISEEIT wrote: »

Rape is a red herring on this issue.

The irony. Would you have rape banned from the debate?

amcalester · 05-05-2018 4:54pm

ASISEEIT wrote: »

Furthermore a lot of parents think it more humane to give a child life;name etc instead of abortion

And they will still be able to do just that after the referendum.

And others who feel differently will have more options than they do now.

ASISEEIT · 05-05-2018 4:54pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

You seem to be just making up everything you post then backing it up with anecdotal evidence while at the same time dismissing facts and anecdotal evidence of others.

What facts? Somebody came up with a figure of 75 a year rape pregnancies. My figure of 12 is in irish times letters today. Anyway we can all agree that rape pregancies are quite small in the over all scheme of things but to hear the yes side you would think them sizeably proportionate.

January · 05-05-2018 4:56pm

ASISEEIT wrote: »

What facts? Somebody came up with a figure of 75 a year rape pregnancies. My figure of 12 is in irish times letters today. Anyway we can all agree that rape pregancies are quite small in the over all scheme of things but to hear the yes side you would think them sizeably proportionate.

So because someone wrote a letter to a newspaper you believe it.

I've some magic beans here, would you like to buy them?

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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