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Late Late Show April 27th

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    #782
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    end of the road wrote: »
    no different to the rest of the laws of the land. your points are invalid

    Don’t start, we’ve been having the same arguments for the last 6 months over the course of 7/8 threads.
    We don’t agree. We never will.
    Let’s not spoil this thread for others by derailing it into yet another repeat of every other disagreement we’ve had on this topic.

    And as a disclaimer, because I know it’s going to be the first thing you say, I’m not saying this because I secretly know deep down that you are right. I dont.
    I just have no desire to have yet another back and forth on this when we both know well never see eye to eye on the matter. And it isn’t fair on others.


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    #783
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    end of the road wrote: »
    i usually have no time for the lls but i decided to watch for the debate.
    the no side did brilliantly. factual, civil, respectful, empathetic and compassionate.

    What would Caroline Simons and Wendy Grace have had to do for you to deem their performance less-than-brilliant? Shit themselves?


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    #784
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    https://www.eurosport.co.uk/football/liga/2014-2015/cristiano-ronaldos-mother-i-wanted-an-abortion-but-god-said-no_sto4979169/story.shtml

    We could have lost Cristiano Ronaldo to abortion. Due to poverty, an alcoholic father. The 'bad circumstances' many refer to. Makes you think of all the talent across the spectrum that never got to draw breath.


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    #785
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    https://www.eurosport.co.uk/football/liga/2014-2015/cristiano-ronaldos-mother-i-wanted-an-abortion-but-god-said-no_sto4979169/story.shtml

    We could have lost Cristiano Ronaldo to abortion. Makes you think of all the talent across the spectrum that never got to draw breath.

    Sounds like his mother made the right choice.


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    #786
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    Hapax Legomenon wrote: »
    Sounds like his mother made the right choice.

    Unfortunately a lot don't. They may feel at the time abortion is the right choice as they can't cope with a child. When they may well have been able, when the time came.

    Abortion is a little like suicide. A permanent solution to a temporary problem which feels overwhelming at the time.


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    #787
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    Unfortunately a lot don't. They may feel at the time abortion is the right choice as they can't cope with a child. When they may well have been able, when the time came.

    The fact that some people might regret it is not a valid reason to remove choice from everyone.


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    #788
    Dandelion6
    Registered Users Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭Dandelion6


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    Abortion is a little like suicide. A permanent solution to a temporary problem which feels overwhelming at the time.

    A child is not a temporary problem. Giving birth has permanent consequences for the woman.


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    #789
    amdublin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,648 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    Why do the No side think irish women are mad for having abortions, or will be mad for having them if they are available on Irish soil.

    When you think of it that's simply not our style.

    I won't call it crisis pregnancies. But how how many unplanned pregnancies do you know? How many of your friends have unplanned pregnancies?

    Many many of my friends babies were unplanned. Different scenarios - I've a single mum friend, I've a very young mum when she had her baby friend, and ive two friends whose third babies were unplanned.
    I also know tons of friends of friends who have unplanned babies.

    Just one of my friends (very briefly) considered an abortion at the time. And it wasn't the young mum or the single mum.

    The default for most Irish people is Not Terminate. It's have the baby.

    Why do people think this will change??


    For feks sake just trust women willya!!!


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    #790
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    Do you not trust women in the UK?


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    #791
    amdublin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,648 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    pleas advice wrote: »
    Do you not trust women in the UK?

    ?????

    Sorry you're going to have that explain that to me more. What are you asking and why?


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    #792
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    You're saying we should trust Irish women, that our abortion rate won't be like the UK's. So do you not trust British women? Do you think they are somehow less moral (?) than Irish women? Or what is the point of your post...?


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    #793
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    For every Ronaldo born there could also be a criminal born to commit the most horrific crime. That kind of reasoning is nonsensical.


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    #794
    amdublin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,648 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    pleas advice wrote: »
    You're saying we should trust Irish women, that our abortion rate won't be like the UK's. So do you not trust British women? Do you think they are somehow less moral (?) than Irish women? Or what is the point of your post...?

    My point is that we don't have a track record of not having babies. I don't see that changing/a big rush on women rushing to get pregnant in order to have abortions.

    Just like hello divorce did not turn into goodbye daddy.
    The sky did not fall down after marriage equality was passed.

    I'm not talking about the UK at all. It's the No side that is obsessed with them and their stats.

    Trust women
    Repeal the 8th


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    #795
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    amdublin wrote: »
    . I don't see that changing/a big rush on women rushing to get pregnant in order to have abortions.

    Seriously though, who said there would be? Just like your 'abortion loyalty cards' and people queueing up on their lunch breaks for abortions, you are building up straw men just to knock them down


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    #796
    PhoenixParker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭PhoenixParker


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    https://www.eurosport.co.uk/football/liga/2014-2015/cristiano-ronaldos-mother-i-wanted-an-abortion-but-god-said-no_sto4979169/story.shtml

    We could have lost Cristiano Ronaldo to abortion. Due to poverty, an alcoholic father. The 'bad circumstances' many refer to. Makes you think of all the talent across the spectrum that never got to draw breath.

    Lots of babies are born because their mother had an abortion too.

    How many of us wouldn't be here if our mothers had better access to contraception? Maybe we should ban contraception?

    How many children wouldn't be here if their mother's hadn't had an abortion as a teenager? My friends who had abortions in their teens would not have the lives, husband's or children they do now if they had gone through with their first pregnancy.


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    #797
    amdublin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,648 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    pleas advice wrote: »
    Seriously though, who said there would be? Just like your 'abortion loyalty cards' and people queueing up on their lunch breaks for abortions, you are building up straw men just to knock them down

    So if I don't think that is going to happen. And you don't think it is going to happen then what is the difference between abortion here or the UK?

    The only difference is we wouldn't be making a woman already in crisis travel to the UK. Or illegally and unsafely take pills ordered online in her bedroom.

    Why would we do this to our women? (Seriosu question, not rheteoical)


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    #798
    circadian
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭circadian


    pleas advice wrote: »
    Do you not trust women in the UK?

    You've asked this in another thread before and began on a windy road of nonsense off the back of it.


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    #799
    DickSwiveller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    amdublin wrote: »
    Why do the No side think irish women are mad for having abortions, or will be mad for having them if they are available on Irish soil.

    When you think of it that's simply not our style.

    I won't call it crisis pregnancies. But how how many unplanned pregnancies do you know? How many of your friends have unplanned pregnancies?

    Many many of my friends babies were unplanned. Different scenarios - I've a single mum friend, I've a very young mum when she had her baby friend, and ive two friends whose third babies were unplanned.
    I also know tons of friends of friends who have unplanned babies.

    Just one of my friends (very briefly) considered an abortion at the time. And it wasn't the young mum or the single mum.

    The default for most Irish people is Not Terminate. It's have the baby.

    Why do people think this will change??


    For feks sake just trust women willya!!!

    Another banal slogan. Do you trust Myra Hindley?


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    #800
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    DickSwiveller wrote: »
    Another banal slogan. Do you trust Myra Hindley?

    If she said she wanted an abortion I would trust her.
    I wouldn't force her to have a baby she didn't want just because I'm under the warped illusion that I know better than she does about her own life.

    As far as I'm aware, she's well into her 60's and locked up in prison now anyway so I don't think we have much to worry about in regards to crisis pregnancies, as far as she's concerned.


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    #801
    Radio5
    Registered Users Posts: 1,950 ✭✭✭Radio5


    Fact check-Myra Hindley died in 2002.


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    #802
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    Hapax Legomenon wrote: »
    The fact that some people might regret it is not a valid reason to remove choice from everyone.

    The fact that innocent lives are taken though is a pretty valid reason to remove the right to kill.


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    #803
    Martina1991
    Registered Users Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Martina1991


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    The fact that innocent lives are taken though is a pretty valid reason to remove the right to kill.

    Abortion. Happens. Every. Day.

    Irish women seek abortions abroad or via illegal pills.

    The 8th doesn't stop abortions from happening.

    Keeping the 8th won't stop abortions from happening.
    The 8th saves no one.

    I don't know how many times that be repeated until you see that.


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    #804
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    Mountainsandh wrote: »
    For every Ronaldo born there could also be a criminal born to commit the most horrific crime. That kind of reasoning is nonsensical.

    And your thinking reflects a belief in humankind being more evil than good and capable of doing uplifting things.

    Ronaldo has brought joy to billions. It's more factual than your annonymous burglars.


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    #805
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    PhoenixParker wrote: »
    Lots of babies are born because their mother had an abortion too.

    How many of us wouldn't be here if our mothers had better access to contraception? Maybe we should ban contraception?

    How many children wouldn't be here if their mother's hadn't had an abortion as a teenager? My friends who had abortions in their teens would not have the lives, husband's or children they do now if they had gone through with their first pregnancy.

    You can't equate contraception to abortion.


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    #806
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    The fact that innocent lives are taken though is a pretty valid reason to remove the right to kill.

    Abortion has been around since the dawn of time. It will still be around if the 8th is retained.
    We are making it unsafe for women to persist in exporting the problem.

    The EU commissioner for human rights has even come out and said our laws on the matter put women's health and lives in danger and recommended repeal.

    The question is whether we want to regulate it and offer supervision, or if we want to stick our fingers in our ears and pretend it isn't happening.

    The 8th doesn't stop abortion - it will continue to happen the way it does if its retained. And the way its happening now is putting lives at risk.


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    #807
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    Martina1991 wrote: »
    Abortion. Happens. Every. Day.

    Irish women seek abortions abroad or via illegal pills.

    The 8th doesn't stop abortions from happening.

    Keeping the 8th won't stop abortions from happening.
    The 8th saves no one.

    I don't know how many times that be repeated until you see that.

    Firstly that's not the point discussed with Hegon.

    Secondly stop your teacherly tone. You're no intellect to be lecturing.

    Yes the 8th saves lives. Embolden your text and shout hysterically all you like.


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    #808
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    And your thinking reflects a belief in humankind being more evil than good and capable of doing uplifting things.

    Ronaldo has brought joy to billions. It's more factual than your annonymous burglars.

    Still not a valid reason to deny other women their own choice on the matter.

    What do you propose we do, tell women seeking abortions it'll be grand, the baby might grow up to be a famous soccer player?


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    #809
    DickSwiveller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Still not a valid reason to deny other women their own choice on the matter.

    What do you propose we do, tell women seeking abortions it'll be grand, the baby might grow up to be a famous soccer player?

    Do you ever think choice should be limited? When did "choice" become such a holy grail. If I choose to punch someone in the face I'll rightly be punished from doing so.


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    #810
    Martina1991
    Registered Users Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Martina1991


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    We could have lost Cristiano Ronaldo to abortion. Due to poverty, an alcoholic father. The 'bad circumstances' many refer to. Makes you think of all the talent across the spectrum that never got to draw breath.

    So what? Replace the name Ronaldo with Hitler, Charles Manson, Jeffrey Dahmer and your arguemnt looks ridiculous.
    Is Ronaldo more important because he's a millioanire footballer?

    His mother CHOSE to continue with the pregancy, and if she decided she couldn't would you have liked to have been there beside her to tell a poverty ridden women with an alcoholic husband to bear a child?


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    #811
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Still not a valid reason to deny other women their own choice on the matter.

    What do you propose we do, tell women seeking abortions it'll be grand, the baby might grow up to be a famous soccer player?

    Counsel. Promote a culture of life rather than the existential death peddling so dear to so many here. You talk about abortion since the beginning of time. Childbirth has been present since then also. It's natural not the appoclyptic event being described here.

    There are many genuinely difficult pregnancies for women and then there's selfishness.

    Should we protect the unborn. Absolutely.


This discussion has been closed.
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