Late Late Show April 27th

DickSwiveller

robarmstrong wrote: »

I'm voting Yes because I don't think my partner should be forced to suffer miscarriage after miscarriage after miscarriage because the medical professionals in multiple maternity hospitals don't believe she meets the requirements for safe and legal abortion in her own country put in place by the 8th. It is very simple.

And what about all the babies who will be killed for no other reason than the fact that the mother doesnt want it.

robarmstrong

DickSwiveller wrote: »

And what about all the babies who will be killed for no other reason than the fact that the mother doesnt want it.

And what about the women who want to have access to a safe and legal abortion but have been denied due to the current restrictions of the 8th and will be continued to be denied for no other reason than the fact that some people are voting no because the legislation doesn't "suit" them?

DickSwiveller

DickSwiveller wrote: »

" Deep personal reasons"

Please spare me the utter sanctimony. Abortion in Britain is basically a contraceptive option at this stage. Why are you and so many others completely disregarding personal responsibility and making all these women out to be terrible victims. No one is forcing them to become pregnant.

I am sick to death of this argument. Making out like anyone who wants an abortion is a wanton hussy. Have you seen the statistics on teen pregnancy? They've fallen significantly in the last decade because contraception is easier to access and information is more freely available. In turn, abortion rates are also dropping. This shows that people are being responsible. However, contraception is not 100% effective. Plenty of women get pregnant even when they took precautions.

This idea that hoards of women are shagging all around them and demanding abortion is not only untrue but deeply insulting. Also, why is all of this venom directed at the woman? Takes two to tango you know...

robarmstrong

DickSwiveller wrote: »

No one is forcing them to become pregnant.

But they are being forced to remain pregnant.

DickSwiveller

DickSwiveller wrote: »

And what about all the babies who will be killed for no other reason than the fact that the mother doesnt want it.

If you're aware of any babies being murdered I hope you'll make a report to the Gardai. Of course, I presume you don't actually mean what your words are conveying.

Wrongway1985

DickSwiveller wrote: »

No one is forcing them to become pregnant.

This attitude has to change.

Rape Victim,Contraception fails,physical/mental conditions,birth defects etc. etc.

What's more true is you prefer the idea they remain pregnant against their will that is the force you imply there and by hell you'll vote for that. (Ignoring the fact of course the procedure may still be sought illegally here or legally elsewhere via Ryanair etc.)

DickSwiveller

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

This attitude has to change.

Rape Victim,Contraception fails,physical/mental conditions,birth defects etc. etc.

What's more true is you prefer the idea they remain pregnant against their will that is the force you imply there and by hell you'll vote for that. (Ignoring the fact of course the procedure may still be sought illegally here or legally elsewhere via Ryanair etc.)

For the thousandth time that is a really stupid argument. There are legal child brothels in Cambodia, where men can go and have sex with 8 year olds. Should we legalize them here because that's the case? PLease answer my question.

robarmstrong

DickSwiveller wrote: »

For the thousandth time that is a really stupid argument. There are legal child brothels in Cambodia, where men can go and have sex with 8 year olds. Should we legalize them here because that's the case? PLease answer my question.

Yes because pedophilia is completely and utterly relevant in the discussion about allowing women safe and legal access to an abortion. You are spot on.

DickSwiveller

robarmstrong wrote: »

And what about the women who want to have access to a safe and legal abortion but have been denied due to the current restrictions of the 8th and will be continued to be denied for no other reason than the fact that some people are voting no because the legislation doesn't "suit" them?

You clearly know absolutely nothing about the motives of people voting pro life. It's pointless engaging in argument with you.

DickSwiveller

Flying Fox wrote: »

I am sick to death of this argument. Making out like anyone who wants an abortion is a wanton hussy. Have you seen the statistics on teen pregnancy? They've fallen significantly in the last decade because contraception is easier to access and information is more freely available. In turn, abortion rates are also dropping. This shows that people are being responsible. However, contraception is not 100% effective. Plenty of women get pregnant even when they took precautions.

This idea that hoards of women are shagging all around them and demanding abortion is not only untrue but deeply insulting. Also, why is all of this venom directed at the woman? Takes two to tango you know...

You're arguing against points that no-one has made. Why not engage with the points I'm making instead of hysterical emotionalising.
There were 2000,000 abortions in Britain last year. It has barely reduced. I don't know where you're getting your statistics from.

robarmstrong

DickSwiveller wrote: »

You clearly know absolutely nothing about the motives of people voting pro life. It's pointless engaging in argument with you.

I know all about the motives of those voting pro-life, your motives being heavily flawed with flimsy logic applied substantially to it in an attempt at justififying your personal beliefs and reassuring yourself that you're doing the right thing, when you aren't.

On the contrary you won't engage with me, and we both know why. You've nothing to offer, no argument, no logical or practical comebacks, just a mound of self justification in the form of you thinking you're doing the right thing by voting no because you don't want just *anyone* having access to abortion, without truly taking into consideration that those who genuinely need it will be shunned because of your woefully inaccurate blanket assumptions about who needs an abortion and why.

So long story short, you think you're being noble, by voting to retain but instead you're just shoving the finger in the faces of the very women you feel sympathy for. (I do appreciate your sympathy by the way, that was kind of you and I thank you for it, it was very pleasant of you as I've had a few horrible remarks about my situation made by people completely misinformed.)

DickSwiveller

DickSwiveller wrote: »

You're arguing against points that no-one has made. Why not engage with the points I'm making instead of hysterical emotionalising.
There were 2000,000 abortions in Britain last year. It has barely reduced. I don't know where you're getting your statistics from.

I was addressing the point you made in your post.

There were not 2 million abortions in Britain last year.

Numbers of Irish women having abortions, as far as we can measure, have dropped.

DickSwiveller

Flying Fox wrote: »

I was addressing the point you made in your post.

There were not 2 million abortions in Britain last year.

Numbers of Irish women having abortions, as far as we can measure, have dropped.

That should be 200,000. Where are you getting your statistics?

robarmstrong

I'm assuming DickSwiveller meant 200,000 rather than 2,000,000, purely due to where he has placed the comma and that there was only one comma used.

Regardless or not if it has "barely reduced", a reduction is that, a reduction nonetheless.

robarmstrong

DickSwiveller wrote: »

That should be 200,000. Where are you getting your statistics?

Pulled from government printed abortion reports.

As you can see, a substantial drop from 2002-2016 (2017 will be released this June).

DickSwiveller

DickSwiveller wrote: »

That should be 200,000. Where are you getting your statistics?

UK records for the numbers of women giving an Irish address. Can't link to it on my phone but there are various articles on it, notably an Irish Times article reporting the figures, which show that 2016 figures hit a low last seen in 1980.

Thanks for the graph Robert

Wrongway1985

DickSwiveller wrote: »

For the thousandth time that is a really stupid argument. There are legal child brothels in Cambodia, where men can go and have sex with 8 year olds. Should we legalize them here because that's the case? PLease answer my question.

No I think that goes without saying! what is wrong with your mind to link such a suggestion apart from deflect from the matter at hand.

Interesting you cite an undeveloped nation there for that nonsense, we are a developed nation the only countries in EU without legal and safe abortion are ourselves and Malta, the rest got it so wrong?

Atlantic Dawn

Yer Da sells Avon

I'll be voting Yes because I think it’s important not to think of the referendum as merely a "what are your views on abortion?" survey. It is not about me. You can remain personally opposed to it in all circumstances, whilst also taking the pragmatic view that it should not be criminalised, and that if it’s going to happen, it should happen safely. A vote to keep the Eighth Amendment is not a vote against abortion. It’ll continue to happen, just not safely and legally in this country. A vote to keep the Eighth is a vote to keep on looking the other way.

circadian

DickSwiveller wrote: »

For the thousandth time that is a really stupid argument. There are legal child brothels in Cambodia, where men can go and have sex with 8 year olds. Should we legalize them here because that's the case? PLease answer my question.

No there aren't.

Your reasoning makes absolutely no sense.

Dandelion6

DickSwiveller wrote: »

There are legal child brothels in Cambodia, where men can go and have sex with 8 year olds. Should we legalize them here because that's the case? PLease answer my question.

As above poster says there aren't, but if there were, we wouldn't enshrine a constitutional right to access them like we have done with foreign abortions. That's a pretty significant difference, don't you think? Please answer my question.

GritBiscuit

DickSwiveller wrote: »

You're arguing against points that no-one has made. Why not engage with the points I'm making instead of hysterical emotionalising.
There were 2000,000 abortions in Britain last year. It has barely reduced. I don't know where you're getting your statistics from.

Maybe if the cowards in the country next door re-worked their constitution and stopped the enshrined shipping of their women over to the UK just to use the self-same statistics they wantonly add to, to crow some pretence of moral victory, people would take points from anti-choicers more seriously...

dakid

Dandelion6 wrote:

The sacrifices a woman has to make to give birth and raise a child are enormous. Absolutely enormous. Most men don't have to give up half as much. I don't think it's at all selfish for women to decide that they are not prepared to make those sacrifices, to the contrary I think it's amazing that so many willingly choose to do so, and unreasonable to demand that they do.

This is pathetic. If a woman on her own or a couple can't deal with the consequences of having sex then don't have sex. And with the effectiveness of methods like the pill or the bar on their own or when combined with another method such as a condom for example this isn't even required. Using abortion as a contraceptive as you described is an action beyond contempt and incredibly selfish.

SusieBlue

dakid wrote: »

This is pathetic. If a woman on her own or a couple can't deal with the consequences of having sex then don't have sex. And with the effectiveness of methods like the pill or the bar on their own or when combined with another method such as a condom for example this isn't even required. Using abortion as a contraceptive as you described is an action beyond contempt and incredibly selfish.

Babies should not be weaponized into ‘consequences’ for people who are ‘careless’. They should be wanted and loved and cherished and not made into some sort of punishment to teach a lesson.
It’s neither in the best interests of women or of babies to follow this line of thinking.

Are you saying it’s that it’s preferable for babies to be born into unstable homes, poverty, neglect, all sorts of awful circumstances, just to teach the mother a lesson?
Born, but at what cost? Born, but into what kind of life? A life the mother didn’t want for her child, but you think you know better than her.

You can’t trust these women to make an informed choice, yet you have no problem trusting them with the responsibility of rearing another human being for 18+ years. The mind boggles.

Contraception fails. All the time. And preaching about it is of no use to someone who is already pregnant with an unplanned baby and in the middle of a crisis.

DickSwiveller

SusieBlue wrote: »

Babies should not be weaponized into ‘consequences’ for people who are ‘careless’. They should be wanted and loved and cherished and not made into some sort of punishment to teach a lesson.
It’s neither in the best interests of women or of babies to follow this line of thinking.

Are you saying it’s that it’s preferable for babies to be born into unstable homes, poverty, neglect, all sorts of awful circumstances, just to teach the mother a lesson?
Born, but at what cost? Born, but into what kind of life? A life the mother didn’t want for her child, but you think you know better than her.

You can’t trust these women to make an informed choice, yet you have no problem trusting them with the responsibility of rearing another human being for 18+ years. The mind boggles.

Contraception fails. All the time. And preaching about it is of no use to someone who is already pregnant with an unplanned baby and in the middle of a crisis.

You make it sound so sentimental and noble on the part of these women. Just admit that a lot of them live feckless lives and couldn't be arsed having the child. I'm sick of all this sentimental claptrap. The media have been churning it out for the past few months.

Btw lots of children have been born in to terrible circumstances and have prospered.

SusieBlue

DickSwiveller wrote: »

You make it sound so sentimental and noble on the part of these women. Just admit that a lot of them live feckless lives and couldn't be arsed having the child. I'm sick of all this sentimental claptrap. The media have been churning it out for the past few months.

Btw lots of children have been born in to terrible circumstances and have prospered.

Sounds like you have more of an issue with women in general than with abortion tbh.
Pretty disgusting thing to say.

As for your comment about couldn’t be arsed having a child... making it sound as if they can’t be arsed to walk to the shop for milk.

Parenting is not easy, it’s a huge sacrific.
It is in no ones best interests to force people who don’t want to be parents to have a baby they don’t want. No ones. Least of all the baby.

I’m aware lots of children are born into terrible circumstances and prosper.
That’s great for them.
That still isn’t a good reason to insist women who don’t want to bring a baby into bad circumstances have their baby any way.

end of the road

i usually have no time for the lls but i decided to watch for the debate.
the no side did brilliantly. factual, civil, respectful, empathetic and compassionate. the yes side just buried their heads in the sand. my no vote is reaffirmed even more, outside medical necessity there is no excuse for having an abortion. we should not facilitate and allow the unnecessary killing of unborn human beings in this country and i hope people on the day will remember the humanity of the unborn and vote no . we can do so much better. women deserve much better then abortion on demand. trust women, vote for their right to be born.

robarmstrong

Sure they did eotr, sure they did.

Good for you buddy.

end of the road

SusieBlue wrote: »

That’s fine. A Yes vote will allow you to continue to live your life by that principle.
A No vote ensures the whole of society has to live by your morals.
Even though they also disagree with you.

no different to the rest of the laws of the land. your points are invalid