City just crazy

McGiver

McGiver wrote: »

Not really, because public transport has much higher throughout than single occupant cars.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. My proposals, a few posts previous, include vastly reducing the capacity of the existing roads for private cars to free up capacity for alternatives (buses, cycling etc)

However, to be truly effective, the bypass will be needed. There is no way around that requirement

zulutango

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry, I wasn't clear. My proposals, a few posts previous, include vastly reducing the capacity of the existing roads for private cars to free up capacity for alternatives (buses, cycling etc)

However, to be truly effective, the bypass will be needed. There is no way around that requirement

What's your reasoning? If most people are on public transport or cycling why is a by pass needed?

McGiver

zulutango wrote: »

What's your reasoning? If most people are on public transport or cycling why is a by pass needed?

To divert car traffic from the town - > expand public transport and cycle infrastructure there?

Pinch Flat

The problem with making roads wider is that it’s a case of “build it an they will come”, so more and more cars, eventually negating the benefit of widening the road.it grinds to a stop eventually agin. Except this time it’s a traffic jam on a wider road.

The “build it an they will come” approach to cycling and public transport, on the other hand, has the opposite effect - people can get from a to b safely and comfortably.

jjpep

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That is a good read and kind of proves my point.

I think it does the opposite, if I understand your point correctly. I would read it as don't build a bypass, use the existing road network but give over priority/access to public transport, bikes and pedestrians.

zulutango

McGiver wrote:

To divert car traffic from the town - > expand public transport and cycle infrastructure there?

But if the drivers are no longer driving and are using bikes and busses instead why build a bypass for drivers that don't exist?

McGiver

zulutango wrote:

But if the drivers are no longer driving and are using bikes and busses instead why build a bypass for drivers that don't exist?

Because they will still exist in this essentially rural and deeply motorist part of the world. The problem is mostly the rural (both from and to) commuters in my opinion. Unlikely "villagers" will ever use public transport here.

jjpep

McGiver wrote: »

Because they will still exist in this essentially rural and deeply motorist part of the world. The problem is mostly the rural (both from and to) commuters in my opinion. Unlikely "villagers" will ever use public transport here.

If you get a chance to read through the source articles from the wiki article I shared a couple of pages ago, that kind of scenario is covered (apologies, can't remember which one).

McGiver

jjpep wrote:

If you get a chance to read through the source articles from the wiki article I shared a couple of pages ago, that kind of scenario is covered (apologies, can't remember which one).

The induced demand one?

jjpep

McGiver wrote: »

The induced demand one?

Yep. Although just through the external links and couldn't find the article I had in mind. If you take a look at the studies section in the wiki article though you'll see reference there. The last line of that section is particularly relevant to this conversation.

"In a few cases, there was actually an increase in the volume of traffic, notably in towns which had closed some town centre roads at the same time as opening a new by-pass."

Discodog

zulutango wrote: »

But if the drivers are no longer driving and are using bikes and busses instead why build a bypass for drivers that don't exist?

So you want to effectively cut off the West from future development? You reduce the city traffic by providing more local jobs. You can't do that if delivery vehicles have to drive through the city.

zulutango

Discodog wrote: »

So you want to effectively cut off the West from future development? You reduce the city traffic by providing more local jobs. You can't do that if delivery vehicles have to drive through the city.

I think it is madness for Galway to keep sprawling westward. That's why it has the chronic congestion to begin with. Fundamentally we should be reducing the need for transport (as per government policy) and sprawling westward is the exact opposite of that.

zulutango

zulutango wrote: »

I think it is madness for Galway to keep sprawling westward. That's why it has the chronic congestion to begin with. Fundamentally we should be reducing the need for transport (as per government policy) and sprawling westward is the exact opposite of that.

Galway straddles both sides of the river and has done since its creation. Rivers are not insurmountable. Its literally a case of "build a bridge and get over it".

Discodog

zulutango wrote: »

I think it is madness for Galway to keep sprawling westward. That's why it has the chronic congestion to begin with. Fundamentally we should be reducing the need for transport (as per government policy) and sprawling westward is the exact opposite of that.

So you consider Clifden a sprawl of Galway ?

Mrs OBumble

zulutango wrote: »

I think it is madness for Galway to keep sprawling westward. That's why it has the chronic congestion to begin with. Fundamentally we should be reducing the need for transport (as per government policy) and sprawling westward is the exact opposite of that.

Is it though? If there were more jobs out there, then fewer people would need to cross the river for work.

IMHO we should cajole a few knowledge based industries (ie ones with few delivery trucks) to set up in industrial estates on the far edge of Knocknacarra, and give the tax incevtivrs for hiring west of the Corrib.

igCorcaigh

I've been staying in Galway for the past few weeks for a new job, in Dangan.

The bus service is ****.

Lack of routes and very long gaps in service times. And the bus is regularly very late because of traffic issues.

A functioning bus service is essential in curbing traffic issues, but they seem to be blocking each other.

ben.schlomo

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I've been staying in Galway for the past few weeks for a new job, in Dangan.

The bus service is ****.

Lack of routes and very long gaps in service times. And the bus is regularly very late because of traffic issues.

A functioning bus service is essential in curbing traffic issues, but they seem to be blocking each other.

Where are you traveling from?

McGiver

igCorcaigh wrote:

A functioning bus service is essential in curbing traffic issues, but they seem to be blocking each other.

Correct. And don't expect any solution. I've concluded that the local council are totally incompetent and it's not going to change unless miracle happens. Maybe good at organising arts festivals but that's it. I would like to point at Limerick, a similarly sized city as Galway, its council and its development. It's developing like anything, lot of new construction in the city, solid cycle paths, buses OK, traffic isn't too bad.

Galway is too "small" and too "rural" (as in mindset) which are really not conducive to public transport uptake. And I think public transport is considered unworthy here and hence isn't developing. To be considered worthy, it would need to developed. Catch 22. Do you think council as incompetent as Galway want to solve any catch 22? It's easier for them to do exactly nothing - i.e. Status quo is convenient for them.

frozenfrozen

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Is it though? If there were more jobs out there, then fewer people would need to cross the river for work.

IMHO we should cajole a few knowledge based industries (ie ones with few delivery trucks) to set up in industrial estates on the far edge of Knocknacarra, and give the tax incevtivrs for hiring west of the Corrib.

I have a job in spiddal now and I am struggling looking for accommodation so please don't make more jobs west of Galway

Mrs OBumble

McGiver wrote: »

Correct. And don't expect any solution. I've concluded that the local council are totally incompetent and it's not going to change unless miracle happens. Maybe good at organising arts festivals but that's it. I would like to point at Limerick, a similarly sized city as Galway, its council and its development. It's developing like anything, lot of new construction in the city, solid cycle paths, buses OK, traffic isn't too bad.

Galway is too "small" and too "rural" (as in mindset) which are really not conducive to public transport uptake. And I think public transport is considered unworthy here and hence isn't developing. To be considered worthy, it would need to developed. Catch 22. Do you think council as incompetent as Galway want to solve any catch 22? It's easier for them to do exactly nothing - i.e. Status quo is convenient for them.

Local councils aren't responsible for public transport in Ireland. They only for providing infrastructure for it to use (bus lanes and shelters). The NTA approves and subsidised routes.

Thinking about Dangan specifically, the service is there isn't great. But it is a lot better than it used to be (now 7 days, 6:30am - 11pm). It's rumoured to be increasing in frequency to every 30 minutes later in the year - these things need to be grown over time.

There are areas in Galway, eg Doughiska, where the bus service is excellent. Better than any service in Limerick AFAIK. Just not enough of them - yet.

McGiver

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Local councils aren't responsible for public transport in Ireland. They only for providing infrastructure for it to use (bus lanes and shelters). The NTA approves and subsidised routes.

Thinking about Dangan specifically, the service is there isn't great. But it is a lot better than it used to be (now 7 days, 6:30am - 11pm). It's rumoured to be increasing in frequency to every 30 minutes later in the year - these things need to be grown over time.

There are areas in Galway, eg Doughiska, where the bus service is excellent. Better than any service in Limerick AFAIK. Just not enough of them - yet.

Yes, NTA approves, but someone else plans, organises and recommends. Without council acting responsibly and decisively NDA can't and won't do anything.

And for me 409 is an below average standard and I would say acceptable. It's excellent maybe for Galway standards. It barely covers two suburbs. Not enough of them - and where will the other magic bus lines come from and how they will move around? Who will arrange that? Galway Council who literally can't build anything? Are they going to build the bus lanes? When? By 2050 when sea level will be 1 m higher and Salthill flooded?

Have you ever been or lived abroad? You really need eyes opened so that you don't call 409 excellent. It's average at best or rather standard you should be demanding for all bus lines as a minimum

igCorcaigh

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Where are you traveling from?

Right now, Eglinton Street. I get the 404,which is perfect in the morning, but runs once an hour.

I might be moving to salthill.

Webbs

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Right now, Eglinton Street. I get the 404,which is perfect in the morning, but runs once an hour.

I might be moving to salthill.

Would not walking or cycling be the answer for you? 40min walk max and maybe 10min cycle? No bus service would compete with the cycling option
Am sure you could end up waiting that length of time for a bus if unlucky.

igCorcaigh

Webbs wrote: »

Would not walking or cycling be the answer for you? 40min walk max and maybe 10min cycle? No bus service would compete with the cycling option
Am sure you could end up waiting that length of time for a bus if unlucky.

I'll be walking I think. Not a fan of the cycling option. But accommodation is so hard to find, I think I should take the opportunity.

McGiver

McGiver wrote: »

Have you ever been or lived abroad? You really need eyes opened so that you don't call 409 excellent. It's average at best or rather standard you should be demanding for all bus lines as a minimum

Where for reference are you comparing this route to?
I don't have much experience of suburban routes in cities of approx 75k people.

Mostly Harmless

Slightly off topic, but the state of the Monivea Rd as you're approaching the Parkmore lights is a disgrace, give the potholes a few more weeks to properly develop and will be like the surface of the moon.

The lads who were digging it up there recently probably angling to come back and resurface the whole thing within 6 months!

Mrs OBumble

Mostly Harmless wrote: »

Slightly off topic, but the state of the Monivea Rd as you're approaching the Parkmore lights is a disgrace, give the potholes a few more weeks to properly develop and will be like the surface of the moon.

The lads who were digging it up there recently probably angling to come back and resurface the whole thing within 6 months!

From which direction?

They were still working on it from the East side yesterday AFAIK.

frozenfrozen

what places should I be looking for a house to rent, I have a job in Spiddal.

Have been looking on daft rent.ie galway houses for sound people on facebook

Nothing really on the west side of galway comes up. There's a small 2 bed 1 bath in Spiddal but it's 950, a lot for a tiny space

I know it's not the purpose of this thread but I'll have to keep adding to Galway traffic if I don't find somewhere on the west side!

flazio

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

From which direction?

They were still working on it from the East side yesterday AFAIK.

I think Mostly Harmless was referring to the road out by Briarhill national school, which I agree is atrocious.

Mostly Harmless

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

From which direction?

They were still working on it from the East side yesterday AFAIK.

East, wasn't aware there was work still ongoing. Hopefully they resurface the lot before they go.