City just crazy

zell12

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It is, however, the most pedestrian-friendly of all Galway's RABs. Far from the worse in my view.

Unless there is a funeral on, and the footpaths are blocked by vehicles because "there is a funeral", forcing pedestrians onto the narrow roads. Zero enforcement.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It is, however, the most pedestrian-friendly of all Galway's RABs. Far from the worse in my view.

While I take your point that's really not saying much. "it's the least crappiest of all the crap".

No matter what way you look at it, it's a worse alternative to a signalised junction for all users of the junction.

xckjoo

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

We have a permanent red light camera, but we stopped following up on the red light jumpers because there was so many of them;

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/camera-that-caught-1-300-drivers-running-red-lights-now-lying-idle-g696v3fh6

Cheers. It's behind a soft paywall so here's the text for anyone that's not registered:

A traffic signal camera that caught 1,300 motorists breaking a red light at an accident blackspot has been unused for more than two and a half years.
The camera was introduced as a pilot measure in June 2015 at the junction where the Luas red line crosses Blackhall Place in Dublin. The National Transport Authority (NTA) confirmed yesterday that the trial ended in December that year. The camera has been running but not used for enforcement.
Ciarán Cuffe, a Green Party councillor and the chairman of the city council traffic committee, said that Shane Ross, the transport minister, should ensure that the cameras are introduced at other junctions where motorists routinely break red lights.
“The use of red-light running cameras have been shown to reduce the breaking of traffic signals in other jurisdictions,” he said. “When they were first proposed in Dublin over three years ago, the city council suggested that they would be permanently linked with the Garda Síochána back office system for prosecutions. This seems not to have occurred.”
Dermot O’Gara, a spokesman for the transport authority, said: “In order to provide a legal basis for the prosecution of individuals using images from the camera system, certain formal legal agreements between An Garda Síochána, the Department of Justice and the NTA need to be reviewed and amended based on the outcomes of the pilot phase.”
The legal agreements would be amended “shortly”, he said.
Sergeant Jim Molloy at the Garda press office said that the traffic camera was a six-month pilot scheme and that more than 1,300 fixed-charge notices were issued during that time.
He added that Dublin city council and the transport authority have responsibility for the camera and gardaí perform the statutory function in prosecuting offenders.
Paschal Donohoe, who was transport minister during the trial’s introduction, said at the time that the junction had been “endangering those who not only use the service but other vulnerable road users such as pedestrians and passers-by”, adding that he was confident that the camera would make a “big impact” on the number of incidents at such junctions.
Dublin city council did not respond to requests for comment on the Blackhall Place camera or another on Con Colbert Road, where the Chapelizod bypass meets the South Circular Road.
In reply to a parliamentary question by Eamon Ryan, the Green Party leader, David Sheahan, the assistant garda commissioner, said that the Blackhall Place camera would be made permanent and the one at Con Colbert Road would be set up as “a pilot project for non-Luas junctions”.
Anne Graham, chief executive of the NTA, said last year that the organisation would seek new enforcement measures including cameras if drivers broke red lights or blocked yellow box junctions on Luas lines.
Motorists caught breaking red lights receive three penalty points and face a fine of up to €120.

I don't see any mention of it being ditched due to the number of people getting caught though. Only thing I can see is related to the need for a new legal agreement between An Garda Síochána, the Department of Justice and the NTA.

McGiver

Three quick points

McGiver wrote: »

Exactly, I was about to write exactly that given the 1.8km length any time saving by speeding 20 to 30 kmh above the current limit is exactly zero. At the cost of - breaking the law and endangering of other road and pedestrian users. Not worth it.

1. This is not true. If you travel on B na T at 50km/hr during peak times, you're not only losing out on 54 seconds. You also have an extra 20/30 cars that have passed you during your time on the road. Each of these cars needs to exit BnaT, adding a lot more time to your journey

2. I've come to realise that the junction on Bishop O'Donnell Road, beside the Westside pitches, and the Shantalla road is the real heartbeat of Galway's traffic problems.
If you're travelling on this road in the evening, once you get through these lights, towards Salthill, everything eases, and moves smoother.
Polite drivers are to blame. Practically every evening, when coming along this stretch of road, the lights are green, and people stop to let traffic in from Shantalla. It slows everything down, and adds majorly to the backlog.

3. This thread is ridiculous. Neither side is willing to move an inch. Either you're a speeder, or someone who obeys the rules. Either way, you're quite angry, and argumentative.

*I'm a speeder by the way

zell12

Deleted User wrote: »

*I'm a speeder by the way

Hand in your licence to drive and state you cannot comply with the terms of it.

zell12

zell12 wrote: »

Hand in your licence to drive and state you cannot comply with the terms of it.

Magnificent input

AndrewJRenko

xckjoo wrote: »

Cheers. It's behind a soft paywall so here's the text for anyone that's not registered:



I don't see any mention of it being ditched due to the number of people getting caught though. Only thing I can see is related to the need for a new legal agreement between An Garda Síochána, the Department of Justice and the NTA.

They managed to issue 1800 FPNs when the camera was first installed, so it doesn't look like there is any legal impediment to usage.

Mrs OBumble

zell12 wrote: »

Unless there is a funeral on, and the footpaths are blocked by vehicles because "there is a funeral", forcing pedestrians onto the narrow roads. Zero enforcement.

Why the hell does it take enforcement though?

Are we really such a nation of ignorant asshole gombeens that we only do the right thing when being watched? Really?

zell12

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Why the hell does it take enforcement though?
Are we really such a nation of ignorant asshole gombeens that we only do the right thing when being watched? Really?

Yep. This is Ireland.

AndrewJRenko

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Why the hell does it take enforcement though?

Are we really such a nation of ignorant asshole gombeens that we only do the right thing when being watched? Really?

zell12 wrote: »

Yep. This is Ireland.

Ah come on, that's a bit harsh. I mean, it's only for important things that we block the roads and paths, like funerals.

Or any Sunday Mass.

Or an under-11 hurling match.

Or when anyone needs a skinny latte and another plastic bottle of water from Spar.

Or when any of Spar's 30-ish deliveries each day arrives.

Or when mummy or daddy need to pick up their little darling from the creché.

But apart from that, it's definitely all clear for pedestrians, cyclists and drivers.

xckjoo

Deleted User wrote: »

Three quick points



1. This is not true. If you travel on B na T at 50km/hr during peak times, you're not only losing out on 54 seconds. You also have an extra 20/30 cars that have passed you during your time on the road. Each of these cars needs to exit BnaT, adding a lot more time to your journey

Ya it's a bit of a Prisoners Dilemma type situation. If you follow the rules and everyone else doesn't, you're going to lose out. But if most people did follow the rules, things would actually move faster overall (as far as I can tell). Since there's no enforcement of the rules, there's no reason not to break them and you only penalise yourself by sticking to them (ignoring the fact that you could potentially kill or seriously injure someone by breaking some of these rules).

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

They managed to issue 1800 FPNs when the camera was first installed, so it doesn't look like there is any legal impediment to usage.

I'd be curious to know how many of those FPNs stood up in court if challenged. Even the long-established things such as breathalyzers seem to fall down in court fairly often, so this would probably be easy pickings for a decent lawyer. I've a feeling these kinds of issues are part of the reason the Guards have little appetite for enforcing road rules, but that's pure speculation on my part.

AndrewJRenko

xckjoo wrote: »

I'd be curious to know how many of those FPNs stood up in court if challenged. Even the long-established things such as breathalyzers seem to fall down in court fairly often, so this would probably be easy pickings for a decent lawyer. I've a feeling these kinds of issues are part of the reason the Guards have little appetite for enforcing road rules, but that's pure speculation on my part.

I'd have thought that any challenge, successful or otherwise, would get fairly substantial publicity. I don't recall any coverage on this issue.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Why the hell does it take enforcement though?

Are we really such a nation of ignorant asshole gombeens that we only do the right thing when being watched? Really?

Do you really think that this only a problem in Ireland?
Go and drive in any country with decent roads, and people break the rules of the road.

Its common everywhere in the world for people to park on curbs and block footpaths.

And you know what, in every country, that I've been too anyway, people are hired to "police" the nations drivers. Because, if there was no risk of been caught breaking one of these laws, what is the incentive to obey the rules.

Mostly Harmless

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you really think that this only a problem in Ireland?
Go and drive in any country with decent roads, and people break the rules of the road.

Its common everywhere in the world for people to park on curbs and block footpaths.

And you know what, in every country, that I've been too anyway, people are hired to "police" the nations drivers. Because, if there was no risk of been caught breaking one of these laws, what is the incentive to obey the rules.

I drive in Germany and Netherlands on a regular basis for work and they are light years ahead of us. Both properly enforced rules and basic common sense/courtesy from road users. Obvs no speed limit in lots of places on autobahn but point stands...

zulutango

Just coming into this thread and I haven't read too much of what's gone before. Is there consensus on what the problem is and how best to fix it? It seems to me that the chickens have come home to roost following decades of car centric development in Galway. Its future is bleak enough because of it. Untangling the mess will also take decades and can only really be done if the efficient infrastructure is put in. Roads and private cars by their nature are not particularly efficient at moving people around. It really should be bikes and bus lanes everywhere, possibly light rail (but doubtful) and then let cars use the space that's left over.

Don't know about others but here is what I advocate (taken from another thread and expanded slightly from when I first posted it)

Build the bypass, the day it opens, complete the following

1. convert 1 lane each way over the Quincential (sp) for bus lanes, same along the headford Rd shopping area, the Sean Mulvoy Rd and BnT

2. Pedestrianise several more city centre streets

3. Huge expansion of bike share scheme to all suburbs

4. Cycle lanes, cycle lanes, cycle lanes, properly segregated

5. Establish 2, permanent, park and rides, 1 on each side of the city, to run from 7am to 11pm

6. Implementation of high frequency bus timetables

7. I'm not sure on the way to implement it, but an additional charge/levy applied to each use of paid parking spaces. Can be 50 cents. Doesn't need to be any more than that. This is then used to fund further expansion of all of the above into the future. This is to be applied by the council against all parking providers. Where the council provides City parking, it should increase in price by 50%

Basically, once the bypass is built, the thoughts of driving a personal car into the city centre should put anyone into a cold sweat.

I'm not saying ban cars from the city centre, but it should become a rare occurrence to *want/need* to drive in rather than just the norm.

There should be enough alternatives to make them the normal, first choice, for everyone.

zulutango

Agree with most of the above but not sure the bypass should be built. Build more roads, get more cars. Instead just put the money for the bypass into efficient transport infrastructure.

Ashleigh1986

The only hope is when city officials have all the roundabouts out , they must put cctv operated traffic lights in their place .
These lights will have to be manned from 7am to 10am and 4pm to 7pm.
Traffic lights operating on a timed sequence are a waste of time .
Also on street parking while hoping that a road can be 2 way has to be looked at.
Enforcement needs to get a lot tougher.
The total abandonment of vehicles by the .... I'm only popping into the shop for a minute brigade needs to be stamped out .
After saying all that I would have zero faith in galway city hall doing anything right .

Fitz*

People's mindsets have to change. They feel the need to drive everywhere because they spend so much on their cars.

I used to live in college road and a housemate worked in city centre (merchants road). Walked to work every day which was sound. But on weekends, if he wanted to do anything in town, he drove in and parked in his workplace parking spot - "it would be a shame to not make use of it". I actually refused a lift home from town one day to show that it was actually quicker to walk. It was a summer's day too.

Singular people is other cities don't drive across the city because alternative and accessible means are there which make the journey easy. That never happens here. Anyone that has a car will drive everywhere, because they can.

jjpep

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Don't know about others but here is what I advocate (taken from another thread and expanded slightly from when I first posted it)

Build the bypass, the day it opens, complete the following

1. convert 1 lane each way over the Quincential (sp) for bus lanes, same along the headford Rd shopping area, the Sean Mulvoy Rd and BnT

2. Pedestrianise several more city centre streets

3. Huge expansion of bike share scheme to all suburbs

4. Cycle lanes, cycle lanes, cycle lanes, properly segregated

5. Establish 2, permanent, park and rides, 1 on each side of the city, to run from 7am to 11pm

6. Implementation of high frequency bus timetables

7. I'm not sure on the way to implement it, but an additional charge/levy applied to each use of paid parking spaces. Can be 50 cents. Doesn't need to be any more than that. This is then used to fund further expansion of all of the above into the future. This is to be applied by the council against all parking providers. Where the council provides City parking, it should increase in price by 50%

Basically, once the bypass is built, the thoughts of driving a personal car into the city centre should put anyone into a cold sweat.

I'm not saying ban cars from the city centre, but it should become a rare occurrence to *want/need* to drive in rather than just the norm.

There should be enough alternatives to make them the normal, first choice, for everyone.

Also agree with all this except for the bypass. Do you listen to podcasts? The how stuff works podcast recently did an episode on how traffic works. Makes mention of the disappearing traffic phenomenon plus other interesting things about how traffic works.

McGiver

Mrs OBumble wrote:

It is, however, the most pedestrian-friendly of all Galway's RABs. Far from the worse in my view.

Knocknacarra RABs are the only properly done in terms of pedestrian access.

This particular RAB is hopeless for motorists and not too great for pedestrians either.

Mrs OBumble

jjpep wrote: »

Also agree with all this except for the bypass. Do you listen to podcasts? The how stuff works podcast recently did an episode on how traffic works. Makes mention of the disappearing traffic phenomenon plus other interesting things about how traffic works.

Except that even I think we need a 2nd decent-capacity bridge. Only having the one is too risky, because if something happens to it, the whole city comes to a halt.

Mrs OBumble

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you really think that this only a problem in Ireland?
Go and drive in any country with decent roads, and people break the rules of the road.

Its common everywhere in the world for people to park on curbs and block footpaths.

And you know what, in every country, that I've been too anyway, people are hired to "police" the nations drivers. Because, if there was no risk of been caught breaking one of these laws, what is the incentive to obey the rules.

I've travelled in plenty of countries with decent roads.

Driver's parking behaviour in Ireland is worse than many.

Bobeagleburger

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I've travelled in plenty of countries with decent roads.

Driver's parking behaviour in Ireland is worse than many.

Doesn't sound very scientific. Forgive me for not believing it as fact.

jjpep

jjpep wrote: »

Also agree with all this except for the bypass. Do you listen to podcasts? The how stuff works podcast recently did an episode on how traffic works. Makes mention of the disappearing traffic phenomenon plus other interesting things about how traffic works.

Unfortunately there is a finite amount of space on the routes in, around and through the city.

For example, Bus Éireann have stated that they are ready and willing to push forward with a major expansion of the bus routes and their frequency. However, they will not do so until there is a sufficient expansion in the amount of bus lanes because it would be utterly pointless otherwise

To create bus lanes you need to free up space which can only be done by either demolishing huge amounts of properties to expand the width of the roads or removing a sufficient volume of the existing traffic to free up capacity.

jjpep

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Unfortunately there is a finite amount of space on the routes in, around and through the city.

For example, Bus Éireann have stated that they are ready and willing to push forward with a major expansion of the bus routes and their frequency. However, they will not do so until there is a sufficient expansion in the amount of bus lanes because it would be utterly pointless otherwise

To create bus lanes you need to free up space which can only be done by either demolishing huge amounts of properties to expand the width of the roads or removing a sufficient volume of the existing traffic to free up capacity.

This Wikipedia article you may find interesting
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand?wprov=sfla1

And if you have the spate time (and interest) the sources credited make interesting reading.

jjpep

jjpep wrote: »

This Wikipedia article you may find interesting
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand?wprov=sfla1

And if you have the spate time (and interest) the sources credited make interesting reading.

That is a good read and kind of proves my point.

McGiver

jjpep wrote: »

This Wikipedia article you may find interesting
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand?wprov=sfla1

And if you have the spate time (and interest) the sources credited make interesting reading.

Great reading, no feelings or impressions but experimental, real life data.

The following mentioned there sums it up perfectly:

An aphorism among some traffic engineers is "Trying to cure traffic congestion by adding more capacity is like trying to cure obesity by loosening your belt."

McGiver

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That is a good read and kind of proves my point.

Not really, because public transport has much higher throughput than single occupant cars.

McGiver

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I've travelled in plenty of countries with decent roads.

Driver's parking behaviour in Ireland is worse than many.

Can you name the countries just out of interest? And are you aware there are differences within the respective countries themselves?