Toronto

Hande hoche!

wes wrote: »

A link from a twitter thread I posted above:

Incels hail Toronto van driver who killed 10 as a new Elliot Rodger, talk of future acid attacks and mass rapes [UPDATED]


Some of the posts from the earlier linked incels.me site is really ****ed up. The article goes through some of it. It imo pretty clear that this attack is terrorism. There is an ideology behind the whole thing and its pretty messed up. These guys really need help before they get to this stage.

Haven't seen anything from David Futrelle in awhile. Can't imagine he has gotten any calmer with Trump's victory.

Grayson

Captain Obvious wrote: »

No, the incels are much worse. They feel like women owe them sex and not giving them sex is being cruel and against the natural order.

I never said they were the same, I said they all followed similar thinking.

Doltanian wrote: »

I regard myself as an Anti-Feminst, women are not oppressing anyone, feminists are not so much pro-female nowadays as anti-male. I have big issues with fathers access rights to their children, divorce law etc. A mans role is as a provider and alot of men feel threatened by this as women gain more financial independence they are more choosey in their partners. Wheras in third world countries men retain their cavemen bring home the bacon status.

Anyway......

Grayson

Doltanian wrote: »

not really I've had enough experiences with gold-digging women to welcome a woman who says lets split the bill. As someone who is financially secure I do find the whole concept of marriage a dangerous proposition in a country which does not acknowledge pre-nuptial agreements and has the legal system stacked against men. e.g. A friend of mine discovered his wife cheating on him, they got divorced, he had to pay his ex-wife half the value of his family home at peak boom prices, he had to borrow the money as he didn't have it going €250k into debt to keep his family home and he had done absolutely nothing wrong. Where is the fairness in that?

Hang on. Men are meant to provide but women should split the bill? They don't seem a bit contradictory to you. Men aren't really providing if the women are contributing half.

BabyCheeses

Doltanian wrote: »

not really I've had enough experiences with gold-digging women to welcome a woman who says lets split the bill. As someone who is financially secure I do find the whole concept of marriage a dangerous proposition in a country which does not acknowledge pre-nuptial agreements and has the legal system stacked against men. e.g. A friend of mine discovered his wife cheating on him, they got divorced, he had to pay his ex-wife half the value of his family home at peak boom prices, he had to borrow the money as he didn't have it going €250k into debt to keep his family home and he had done absolutely nothing wrong. Where is the fairness in that?

You wouldn't be planning on renting any vans would you? :pac:

jmayo

Captain Obvious wrote: »

No, the incels are much worse. They feel like women owe them sex and not giving them sex is being cruel and against the natural order.

Funny thing is I believe there are a fairly large chunk of men who have been allowed enter our countries and the EU over the last few years who have this exact belief system and these traits.

But what gets me is the cognitive dissonance you and a lot of the posters around here exhibit when we talk about these new entrants and indeed some others who have immigrated to Europe many years ago or are the offspring of people that immigrated to Europe.

Why the double standards ?

Surely a misogynist is a misogynist, no matter where they are from, what race or culture they are from.
And surely the goal should be to eliminate misogynists from our societies not add to them.

I away the verbal gymnastics to explain these contradictions. :rolleyes:

kunst nugget wrote: »

Simple solution: move to the third world. You can have a great time being a caveman there.

Why bother, the third world is coming here.

BabyCheeses

jmayo wrote: »

Funny thing is I believe there are a fairly large chunk of men who have been allowed enter our countries and the EU over the last few years who have this exact belief system and these traits.

But what gets me is the cognitive dissonance you and a lot of the posters around here exhibit when we talk about these new entrants and indeed some others who have immigrated to Europe many years ago or are the offspring of people who immigrated to Europe.

Why the double standards ?

Surely a misogynist is a misogynist, no matter where they are from, what race or culture they are from.
And surely the goal should be to eliminate misogynists from our societies now add to them.

I away the verbal gymnastics to explain these contradictions. :rolleyes:



Why bother, the third world is coming here.

I agree completely. When are you leaving?

jmayo

BabyCheeses wrote: »

I agree completely. When are you leaving?

Ah yes the typical I can't answer the question so I will just be a smart alec.

Wibbs

Doltanian wrote: »

I see the media are calling the police man a hero for arresting the guy instead of shooting him. That police man is nothing but a total coward he had a gun and failed to use it, the attaclef will face no justice when the cop should have lit him up and dispatched him there and then.

In the US the cops would have left him like a sive and it would have been what he deserved. Canada is gone to hell in a basket really.

So you would prefer even admire a society that has a police force that seems to be full of slack jawed trigger happy fat men with guns that let fly with the rounds outa the gate and decry a society that has a police force that seeks to defuse a situation even at risks to their own lives to reduce the risk for the public? Jesus.

And yes the cop is a hero and a professional. It took one helluva pair of stones to try and talk that situation down with a mentaller levelling what could have been a firearm at you and colleagues, while you have the means to just shoot the guy. In the US he would have almost certainly opened up. Protect and serve? More like "Sh1t yourself and shoot" of late.

Captain Obvious

jmayo wrote: »

Funny thing is I believe there are a fairly large chunk of men who have been allowed enter our countries and the EU over the last few years who have this exact belief system and these traits.

But what gets me is the cognitive dissonance you and a lot of the posters around here exhibit when we talk about these new entrants and indeed some others who have immigrated to Europe many years ago or are the offspring of people that immigrated to Europe.

Why the double standards ?

Surely a misogynist is a misogynist, no matter where they are from, what race or culture they are from.
And surely the goal should be to eliminate misogynists from our societies not add to them.

I away the verbal gymnastics to explain these contradictions. :rolleyes:



Why bother, the third world is coming here.

Still trying to make it about immigration? But to answer your question, you are deciding someone is misogynist based solely on their ethnic or religious background. That's the part I disagree with.

kunst nugget

jmayo wrote: »

Why bother, the third world is coming here.

Oooooh, edgy!

BabyCheeses

jmayo wrote: »

Ah yes the typical I can't answer the question so I will just be a smart alec.

I did. I agree with you. Anyone who views others as less than equal should not be allowed in this country.

Some might say it's a little PC thought police punishing wrong think but the rest of us will be safer. Do you really think that it should just begin at anyone to the right of you? You would become the furthest right and next to be targeted.

jmayo

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Still trying to make it about immigration? But to answer your question, you are deciding someone is misogynist based solely on their ethnic or religious background. That's the part I disagree with.

No I am asking a serious question.

You made a comment about misogynists and yet on other threads you and other like minded posters are falling over themselves to condone the entry of people from some of the most misogynistic backgrounds on the planet.

You either condemn it totally or else you are a hypocrite.

Ehh you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that people with a certain religious background and coming from certain parts of the world, however moderate people claim, have come from a background where women are second class citizens.
The only question is to what degree they believe in subjugating women.

Captain Obvious

jmayo wrote: »

No I am asking a serious question.

You made a comment about misogynists and yet on other threads you and other like minded posters are falling over themselves to condone the entry of people from some of the most misogynistic backgrounds on the planet.

You either condemn it totally or else you are a hypocrite.

Ehh you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that people with a certain religious background, however moderate people claim, have come from a background where women are second class citizens.
The only question is to what degree they believe in subjugating women.

You still don't get it. Someone being more likely to be a misogynist does not make them a misogynist. Why do you think your attitude is any different to the way racism works? How is it any different to racial profiling?

Grayson

Just read this article about the incel movement. it's interesting
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/25/raw-hatred-why-incel-movement-targets-terrorises-women

ceadaoin.

jmayo wrote: »

No I am asking a serious question.

You made a comment about misogynists and yet on other threads you and other like minded posters are falling over themselves to condone the entry of people from some of the most misogynistic backgrounds on the planet.

You either condemn it totally or else you are a hypocrite.

Ehh you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that people with a certain religious background and coming from certain parts of the world, however moderate people claim, have come from a background where women are second class citizens.
The only question is to what degree they believe in subjugating women.

It's the same on both sides though. I see people more than willing to condemn misogyny when it comes from Muslims, but have nothing to say about it when it doesn't. I've come to realise that even though we may agree on some things, those people don't actually care about women unless they can be used to reinforce their opinions or agenda. Likewise, there are those who turn a blind eye when it comes from certain minority groups also.


Why are people trying to make this about Muslims when this attacker was a self professed incel who wanted to target women because he hated them? If anyone tries to deflect in such a way on a terrorism thread for example, those same posters would be angrily accusing others of whataboutery.

I condemn all misogyny, whether it comes from the right, left or certain religions. That's because I actually care about it. I can clearly see that most people don't really give a **** though. Luckily many women are willing to stand up for themselves and shine a light on these issues. then they are labelled "feminazis" by the same men who wants to save us all from the "Muslim hoarde" or "racists" by the others. Ffs

osarusan

Minassian found guilty on all 26 charges.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56269095

Minassian rented the van some three weeks before he used it as a weapon on a major Toronto street. He told investigators he had set out to kill as many people as possible and that he drew inspiration from the misogynistic "incel" movement of mostly online groups of young men who blame their lack of sexual activity on women.

Asked by investigators how he felt about the harm he had caused, the attacker replied: "I feel like I accomplished my mission".

Quantum Erasure

I guess that's why they call it 'in cell'...

(Just gonna stand there and watch me burn But that's alright, because I like the way it hurts)

simongurnick

Defense tried to position a lack of culpability due to some form of autism he has, despite the fact this scumbag planned this for weeks, if not months in advance.

iamstop

It's a terrible, tragic thing to happen to the victims and their families. Glad the guy is getting locked up. The whole incel thing is crazy. And sad.