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Cork developments

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭ snotboogie


    The problem is that there is no other option to get bus priority on either road, they are massive traffic black spots and they carry close to the entirety of the public transport from Douglas, Rochestown, Passage and Carrigaline to the city.

    The big routes here are the 3, 8, 7 and 12, which will carry the 90% of the peak traffic from these 4 areas. The 3, 8 and 12 will use the Douglas Road and the 7 will use the South Douglas Road. Without a major incentive to speed up buses, this huge population centre (about 70k people) won't get out of their cars.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,580 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980


    I think the bus network will trump the cycle lanes ultimately. However we haven't yet seen the infrastructure part of the plan as all we got today was the network design. Have to wait and see.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,580 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980


    They won't get out of their cars with one way splits either. We haven't yet seen what the infrastructure plan for this looks like, as we only got the network today.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,959 ✭✭✭ TheChizler


    True, when choosing between them bus will win. Though the cynic in me says private motor vehicles will ultimately be the last to lose out.

    Looking forward to the infrastructure part of the consultation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭ snotboogie


    The splits would only be on the South Douglas and Douglas Roads. It would not affect people coming from Grange, Carrigaline, Rochestown, Douglas Village, Passage, Monkstown etc. Both roads are low density residential areas so a split would only affect those living on the roads. The primary origins and destinations would be before and after the split. Its not perfect but it would be better than sending every bus into traffic black spots



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,580 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980


    Yeah that's the big part of this. I'd be fearful that the infrastructure element will take forever and will get bogged down in endless local objections to the point of being useless.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,580 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980


    You would also have to change the general traffic flow to one way. I can imagine a massive wave of nimbyism and local objections of epic proportions. I suspect that played a part in this design also. And there's still a fair few people who live near those roads so making the bus unusable for them would only cause more traffic woes. The roads are narrow leaving few good options unfortunately.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭ snotboogie


    100% yes, however CPO's would be worse again and doing nothing will make public transport essentially unviable for the largest suburb and commuter town in Cork.

    My only point of disagreement is making the bus unusable for people living on those roads. A huge number of people live in between the roads which would not be a huge inconvenience. The people it would really hurt would be those in Ballinlough who use the Douglas Road bus stops and to a lesser extent those in the housing estates in front of Nemo who use the South Douglas Road bus stops.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,128 ✭✭✭ Pete_Cavan


    Surely the approach needs to be one of targeted CPOs of mostly commercial properties. I am not familiar with the area but there seems to be several small poor quality commercial units, parking areas, underused land and corner houses with large gardens where space could be taken. Avoid going after rows of houses facing directly onto the road, there is strength in numbers so don't unite people in their opposition.

    The split routes approach is the only realistic one, it would allow for retaining two general traffic lanes on both DR and SDR while providing a combination of bus lane or bus priority measures in one direction only on each. Essentially adding a third lane where possible, or bus priority lights where not. Not perfect but far better than just leaving buses contend with all other traffic. By retaining general traffic in both directions on both roads, you limit the opposition.

    If you have general traffic in both directions, you can provide core bus services in one direction on each road but another bus in the other direction on the other road. So, if 3, 8 and 12 use SDR city-bound and DR outbound (both with some level of bus priority in those directions only), the 7 goes the other direction in the general traffic lane. That way, people in that area retain direct buses, they will just be slow and lesser frequency in one direction. As most journeys from this area are likely to be relatively short, this should be acceptable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭ DylanQuestion


    I made a Bus Connects thread



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,959 ✭✭✭ TheChizler


    Avoid going after rows of houses facing directly onto the road

    Unfortunately these are where the worst pinch points are. The tend to be near junctions as well.

    Essentially adding a third lane where possible, or bus priority lights where not

    A third motor vehicle lane would only fit in places where it would have minimum benefit, plus you have the new problem of trying to merge back in to the other lane every few hundred metres. Could end up making things worse. Though I expect this is what we'll get. There might be enough room for priority lights at one or two junctions but unless the implementers have the guts to go through with drastic changes to the continuous road layout I think we'll be stuck with the status quo, or worse.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭ SleetAndSnow


    From my reading of that the 214 (changed to the 5) no longer goes past the lough and up to noonan road etc, which is a loss for like all of wilton/togher to get to UCC (use it daily). Also a lot of elderly people on the bus use it to go to the Lough Church.

    219 route also seems to be gone so there would be one bus service for all that area. Was useful for getting to douglas/Mahon. Agree that they seem to want people to change buses to get to places, but IMO that will turn people off unless there is dedicated routes that only buses can use.

    Noonan road actually looks to lose all its bus services as the 216 (changed to the 14) bypasses it now too? EDIT: Just saw they have the 10, other point still stands though!


    I'm not sure how I feel about the new routes really.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭ snotboogie


    Apologies for the continued Douglas discussion!

    It's actually not so bad on the Douglas Road. You could get uninterrupted bus priority pretty much the entire length of it with minimal CPO's if it's just one extra lane. The worst stretch is between Ballincurrig Park and Konckrae Park, where several driveways in a row would need to be CPO'd. Other than that you can go all the way from the N40 to just before N27 with commercial CPO's and the odd driveway. I don't think any of the CPO's mentioned are unreasonable. The South Douglas Road is mostly the same except for a pinch point between Rathmore Lawn and Rosebank where CPO's would be essentially impossible.

    To be honest I think Petes post is the best solution I've heard for this issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,580 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980


    Noonans Road has the 10 and the 4 in the new network. The new 4 travels along Pouladuff and probably makes more sense than the existing 214 as it beings more people closer to a bus route. It's about a 2 minute walk along Gould Street to the Church.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,580 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980


    Doesn't seem to me the split route is going to happen. The consultant for this, Jarrett Walker, is ardently opposed to split routes. And most transport consultants will tell you split routes are not at all desirable. Douglas Road will be the CBC per the BusConnects infrastructure element:




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,413 ✭✭✭ Markcheese


    It seems a shame to me that they don't continue the balincolig- city centre line out onto the midleton line - it would mean a east-west rail corridor of nearly 30 kms , would make park and ride at dunkettle more worth while - as well as way easier links to new north docks developments , little island and carrigtohil industrial estates -

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,580 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980


    Ballincollig to the city will be a light rail corridor on streets whereas the line to Midleton is heavy rail. It's doable but I doubt there is any desire to have a tram-train set up in Cork for many reasons. I can't think of any benefits to having a light rail set up all the way out to Midleton and Cobh over simply electrifying, and dual tracking to Midleton, the existing suburban line, with an interchange at Kent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭ snotboogie


    There has been a new SHD consultation launched for Jacobs Island in Mahon for 498 apartments. This is the site of the infamous Mahon Tower, which was the first major apartment SHD consultation in Cork. The original application had 413 apartments, the developers went back to amend that to 437 apartments earlier this year, I don't think there was ever a decision on that. Anyway this looks like a new proposal



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,959 ✭✭✭ TheChizler


    Does double-planning increase the land value even more? When they go to sell the site will they can claim they got planning for 935 apartments. Ca-ching!



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,135 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    Given the track record of apartment building in Cork I can't see there being a queue to buy land with planning for apartments no matter what the number of apartments is.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,413 ✭✭✭ Markcheese


    Theres no real need for heavy rail to midleton , but you could put In tram stops far cheaper than rail stations . Allowing for 2 or 3 at the north docks / Tivoli , the second stop at carrigtohil industrial estate, the stop at the former Amgen site , water rock , all of which then have a direct link through to the city without having to change ...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,580 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980


    What about the Cobh line? You'd have to rebuild the existing stations at Little Island, Glounthaune, Carrigtwohill, Midleton, Fota, Carrigaloe, Rushbrook and Cobh as they can't take trams. And regauge the entire line to take trams. That would cost a small fortune for very little benefit. Trams are slow, have lower capacity and over such long distances are much worse than electrified heavy rail. It's not going to happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭ Mav11


    Are there plans to electrify the line? You'd need that for a tram.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,580 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980


    Yes the plan is to electrify from Mallow to Cobh/Midleton. The first element to enable that was completed over the last few weeks with the upgrade of the signalling at Kent to replace the old analogue system in place.

    A tram all the way to Cobh and Midleton is a non-starter as it would cost a fortune to regauge the entire line to accommodate trams and trams are slower and have less capacity than electrified heavy rail. Not to mention the existing stations would have to be demolished and rebuilt to accommodate trams. They offer zero benefits from Kent to Cobh/Midleton over simply upgrading what we have to electrified rail and creating an integrated hub at Kent. Nobody would suggest replacing the DART in Dublin with a Luas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭ Mav11


    Are you sure that the line would need to be regauged? AFAIK the LUAS runs on standard gauge i.e. the same as Irish Rail gauge.



  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭ sheff_


    Irish railway gauge differs to international standard gauge, which is what I think luas runs on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,580 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980


    Luas is standard gauge 1,435mm. The heavy rail network is Irish gauge of 1,600mm.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,505 ✭✭✭ Apogee


    Examiner:

    A developer has commenced a consultation with An Bord Pleanála about the scheme of more than 1,000 apartments at a site on Centre Park Road.

    The proposal, from Tiznow Property Company Limited, is in relation to a plan for 1,030 apartments, two creches and associated site works, and is focused on the former Tedcastles Site on Centre Park Road, associated with the Comer Group.

    The consultation is a standard element of the Strategic Housing Development (SHD) process and its outcome is not indicative of any future planning decision.

    In recent weeks, the Irish Examiner also reported that Tiznow Property Company Limited had commenced a consultation over the development of 191 apartments on the site of the former Cork Warehouse Company on Monahan Road, Cork city.

    Both sites are located close to the potential locations of other major residential developments, including the proposal from Marina Quarter Limited, which is seeking to develop 1,002 apartments on the former Ford distribution site, fronting on to Centre Park Road and Monahan Road. That scheme was approved in April.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,688 ✭✭✭ fonecrusher1


    Excellent! The pearl clucthers won't like that lol.



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