Chemical weapon used on civilians in Syria + Airstrikes

Gatling

smurgen wrote: »

Floating giant targets. It's not a computer game.U.S domination is not guaranteed. If crappy 3rd world nations could inflict mass casualites using guerilla warfare against the U.S what do you think Russia could do?

The same 3rd world country that done more damage to russia than they any other country.
Chechens done equals amount of damage as well , russia has not fought a real war since Korea ,

Now that the same America who can fly ,and attack from land ,sea and air 24/7 and tell us it would be a fair fight .

According to the majority of military experts russia might hold its own for a 6 week period but after that they would suffer massively against America and NATO forces

RebelButtMunch

cnocbui wrote: »

In the hands of the French and US intelligence agencies and the labs they used to test the samples.

Let's hope we don't have a repeat of the Blair Bush Sadam WMD sh!t storm

mcmoustache

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Moscow has “irrefutable” data that the incident in Douma, Syria was staged by the intelligence services of a foreign state pushing a “Russophobic campaign,” Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov stated.

“We have irrefutable evidence that it was another staging, and the special services of a state which is in the forefront of the Russophobic campaign had a hand in the staging,” Lavrov said at a news conference with his Dutch counterpart Stef Blok on Friday.

Let's hope the Russians disclose this information

Let's hope it doesn't contradict the claim of their ambassador to the UN.

Q: What do you think about the American draft resolution?


A: It contains some unacceptable elements which make it even worse. You heard our statement today where we said that our military, radiological, biological, chemical unit was on site of the alleged chemical accident and it confirmed that there were no chemical substances found on the ground, no dead bodies found, no poisoned people in the hospitals. The doctors in Douma deny that there were people who came to the hospital claiming that they were under the chemical attack. The Syrian Red Crescent that it was said to be treating people who were poisoned denied that was ever doing it. What we are saying, we are requesting the OPCW whose Director-General said they were ready to go to Douma to do it immediately and see themselves what happens to the ground.

cnocbui

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Moscow has “irrefutable” data that the incident in Douma, Syria was staged by the intelligence services of a foreign state pushing a “Russophobic campaign,” Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov stated.

“We have irrefutable evidence that it was another staging, and the special services of a state which is in the forefront of the Russophobic campaign had a hand in the staging,” Lavrov said at a news conference with his Dutch counterpart Stef Blok on Friday.

Let's hope the Russians disclose this information

Yes, that is likely to be just as irrefutable as the Novichok they never developed, their supposed destruction of all chemical weapons and the nonexistent facility they used to produce the nonexistent Novichok they absolutely didn't use on the Skripals.

The world is still waiting for Russia's irrefutable evidence that they were in fact set-up by others for that one.

Right up there with the irrefutably nonexistent polonium they used to assassinate Litvinenko using their nonexistent agents.

Remember the irrefutably nonexistent Russian troops in Eastern Ukraine?

The only thing reliably irrefutable is that Russians lie incessantly, starting with Putin and continuing on down from there.

ArchXStanton

cnocbui wrote: »

Yes, that is likely to be just as irrefutable as the Novichok they never developed, their supposed destruction of all chemical weapons and the nonexistent facility they used to produce the nonexistent Novichok they absolutely didn't use on the Skripals.

The world is still waiting for Russia's irrefutable evidence that they were in fact set-up by others for that one.

Right up there with the irrefutably nonexistent polonium they used to assassinate Litvinenko using their nonexistent agents.

Remember the irrefutably nonexistent Russian troops in Eastern Ukraine?

The only thing reliably irrefutable is that Russians lie incessantly, starting with Putin and continuing on down from there.

I'm still waiting on the God King Macrons evidence to be made public of this alleged attack,because Mattis is over the other side of the world saying there's still no evidence?!?!? Who's lying?!?

bilston

Hande hoche! wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

It's coming up to 6am in Washington. We must be due a tweet quite soon...I wonder how Donald is feeling this morning...

The rumours are there are clashes between Mattis and Bolton over what direction to take.

Not that I have much faith in either I hope Mattis wins that battle.

bilston

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Moscow has “irrefutable” data that the incident in Douma, Syria was staged by the intelligence services of a foreign state pushing a “Russophobic campaign,” Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov stated.

“We have irrefutable evidence that it was another staging, and the special services of a state which is in the forefront of the Russophobic campaign had a hand in the staging,” Lavrov said at a news conference with his Dutch counterpart Stef Blok on Friday.

Let's hope the Russians disclose this information

He said one country in particular is responsible but wouldn't name them.

I suspect Russia would like to pin the blame on the UK.

Vladimir Poontang

cnocbui wrote: »

The only thing reliably irrefutable is that Russians lie incessantly, starting with Putin and continuing on down from there.

Where are Saddam's WMD's?

ArchXStanton

Vladimir Poontang wrote: »

Where are Saddam's WMD's?

I can only imagine the sour looking puss staring at that post..

smurgen

Shurimgreat wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

Floating giant targets. It's not a computer game.U.S domination is not guaranteed. If crappy 3rd world nations could inflict mass casualites using guerilla warfare against the U.S what do you think Russia could do?

Its not what the Russians would or wouldn't do. Its what retaliation the Americans would inflict in return and trust me they would.
Sinking an aircraft carrier would essentially be a declaration of war. You think the Americans are going to laugh it off? Of course they aren't. They would bring the full might of their forces against the Russians. We can take it as a given the Russians aren't stupid enough to sink a US carrier.

I'll trust you so . If they go in with their full force Russia will begin warming up the SS Satan's and then it's goodbye USA.

smurgen

Vladimir Poontang wrote: »

cnocbui wrote: »

The only thing reliably irrefutable is that Russians lie incessantly, starting with Putin and continuing on down from there.

Where are Saddam's WMD's?

People need to remember this; the hundreds of thousands killed to to "faulty imtelligence" are never ever coming back.It's not as if people can be reanimated if the american overloards get it wrong.

Dohnjoe

Lavrov (Russian foreign minister) has just come out and stated that the recent chemical attack was staged

So far we're up to 80+ chemical attacks "staged" at the moment. Despite the fact that previous samples matched Assad's known stockpiles - which were supposed to be destroyed - jointly overseen by the Russians

The pro-government forces have been trying to retake this area since 2013 - this particular chemical attack forced the rebels to agree to leave in one day

On a side note, even conspiracy theorists are having trouble keeping up with the sheer volume of conspiracies coming out of the Kremlin - some even before the event happens Russian trolls denied Syria Gas Attack - Before it Happened

Vladimir Poontang

smurgen wrote: »

People need to remember this; the hundreds of thousands killed to to "faulty imtelligence" are never ever coming back.It's not as if people can be reanimated if the american overloards get it wrong.

The Airsoft brigade forget that in real life the dead can't just run outside the boundary with their arms raised to re-enter the game

mcmoustache

The West: Syria used chemical weapons.

Russia: There was no chemical weapons.

Later...

The West: Syria used chemical weapons.

Russia: OK. We lie last time. It happen but it was ISIS. Really, we not lie now.

Later still...

The West: Syria used chemical weapons.

Russia: OK. We lie last time and the time before that. But this time we tell truth. It was foreign Intelligence Service. Seriously, we not lie now for sure.

Shurimgreat

smurgen wrote: »

I'll trust you so . If they go in with their full force Russia will begin warming up the SS Satan's and then it's goodbye USA.

Again aint going to happen.
You seem to think the Russians will never face retribution from America.
The reason no two nuclear states have sent nukes at each other is due to the principle of M.A.D. - Mutually Assured Destruction. The Russians are not dumb enough to invite the end of their country. Bombing Syrian civilians, that's easy for the Russians. Bombing the US, whole other ball game.

Shurimgreat

Vladimir Poontang wrote: »

Where are Saddam's WMD's?

More relevant would be to ask why the Russians and Syrians oppose a complete investigation of the recent chemical weapons attack that apportions blame?

People who ridicule others for wanting hard evidence on these things after Iraq and Libya are despicable. People who say it must be Russia because of Polonium and Ukraine need to learn how to use logic.


If the US and the UK are going to bomb the shlt out of that country killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, I want it to be absolutely irrefutable that Assad did it.

It doesn't make any sense that he did it, so there's more need for absolute proof from an independent body. Every alternative makes more sense.. Be it rebels, or people fixing up a new war.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

People who ridicule others for wanting hard evidence on these things after Iraq and Libya are despicable. People who say it must be Russia because of Polonium and Ukraine need to learn how to use logic.


If the US and the UK are going to bomb the shlt out of that country killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, I want it to be absolutely irrefutable that Assad did it.

It doesn't make any sense that he did it, so there's more need for absolute proof from an independent body. Every alternative makes more sense.. Be it rebels, or people fixing up a new war.

well then russia need to stop blocking an investigation

Vladimir Poontang

All the Airsoft boys believing the gas lie would do well to educate themselves on previous lies about gas in Syria.

From Seymour Hersh

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article165905578/Trump-s-Red-Line.html

Skylinehead

Vladimir Poontang wrote: »

All the Airsoft boys believing the gas lie would do well to educate themselves on previous lies about gas in Syria.

From Seymour Hersh

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article165905578/Trump-s-Red-Line.html

Stop this nonsense or you're out of this thread.

Shurimgreat

Deleted User wrote: »

People who ridicule others for wanting hard evidence on these things after Iraq and Libya are despicable. People who say it must be Russia because of Polonium and Ukraine need to learn how to use logic.


If the US and the UK are going to bomb the shlt out of that country killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, I want it to be absolutely irrefutable that Assad did it.

It doesn't make any sense that he did it, so there's more need for absolute proof from an independent body. Every alternative makes more sense.. Be it rebels, or people fixing up a new war.

You say you don't believe he did it which presumably means you believe it was a false flag fabrication.

Well then you would think the Russians would be only too eager for an international investigation which apportions blame to those who carried out the attack. This would clear them and Assad. Guess what, they opposed such an investigation.
This point has been covered repeatedly on this thread by the way if you care to read back over it.

The only one who has succeeded in killing hundreds of thousands in Syria so far is Assad. And yet not a single protest about that from the various loudmouth stop the war groups here or in the UK. Pathetic really.

Dohnjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

If the US and the UK are going to bomb the shlt out of that country killing hundreds of thousands of civilians,

That's never been mentioned and as far as I know is not remotely on the table. What is likely would be punitive action against Syrian military forces only. Airbases, that type of thing. Like Trump's strikes after the last chemical attack.

"Irrefutable proof" doesn't exist. If video footage of Syrian planes was captured flying over the area the exact time of the attack dropping canisters it would be described as fake, CGI, taken from another time, a false flag, Israeli "marked jets", etc, etc, etc

What nations rely on is the consensus of experts and the weight of evidence. Not just of this attack but others. Putting all of Russia's propaganda aside for one moment (they are a key ally of Assad), the weight of evidence points strongly and repeatedly toward pro-government forces for the majority of the 80+ recorded chemical attacks and independent investigations into them

If the intl community does nothing, the government forces (who are "winning", but running on the ragged edge in terms of manpower, logistics, supplies and so on) will continue to use chemical weapons simply because they get the "job" done in days rather than months/years

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well then russia need to stop blocking an investigation

Weren't Russia calling for missiles not to be fired until after that team investigates?

I want proof of anything Russia-related in the last two years. Trump Russia, nothing. Salisbury, no proof. Syria, Russia are the ones pleading for the independent investigation while the US is already sending forces and the UK is talking war.


To believe all this stuff with no proof is more conspiracy nut than not believing it.

Shurimgreat

Shurimgreat wrote: »

You say you don't believe he did it which presumably means you believe it was a false flag fabrication.

Well then you would think the Russians would be only too eager for an international investigation which apportions blame to those who carried out the attack. This would clear them and Assad. Guess what, they opposed such an investigation.
This point has been covered repeatedly on this thread by the way if you care to read back over it.

The only one who has succeeded in killing hundreds of thousands in Syria so far is Assad. And yet not a single protest about that from the various loudmouth stop the war groups here or in the UK. Pathetic really.

Russia’s embassy in the UK says it concerned by reports that the cabinet has agreed to take action against Syria.

In a statement it said any airstrikes could hamper the OPCW’s investigation into the possible use of chemical weapons in Douma.

It said:

“At the request of the Syrian Government the OPCW sent a fact-finding team to Douma. The experts will arrive tomorrow. Syrian authorities will provide all the relevant security guarantees. Russia is ready to assist in ensuring its safety. We are interested in seeing independent experts there, so they can make all the necessary tests without delay.

The conditions on the ground, now that the Russian military police is present in Douma, are appropriate for conducting investigation of the alleged incident.

Russian services for chemical and radiological security visited the suspected site of the incident and did not find any traces of chemical substances. No persons treated for chemical poisoning were found in local hospitals ...

UK statements in favour of an independent investigation clearly contradict those automatically laying the blame on the Syrian government.

Military strikes may be used to cover up all the evidence, or lack thereof, on the ground. Such a decision, if it’s taken, in violation of the international law and the Charter of the United Nations may well mark the latest in the series of the reckless military adventures by the UK ...

It’s essential to avoid any steps which could escalate the tensions."



As to your first line, all I want is proof. As usual, that is mocked.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

Weren't Russia calling for missiles not to be fired until after that team investigates?

I want proof of anything Russia-related in the last two years. Trump Russia, nothing. Salisbury, no proof. Syria, Russia are the ones pleading for the independent investigation while the US is already sending forces and the UK is talking war.


To believe all this stuff with no proof is more conspiracy nut than not believing it.

so if they are so keen on an investigation why did they block the UNSC vote?

Shurimgreat

Deleted User wrote: »

Russia’s embassy in the UK says it concerned by reports that the cabinet has agreed to take action against Syria.

In a statement it said any airstrikes could hamper the OPCW’s investigation into the possible use of chemical weapons in Douma.

It said:

“At the request of the Syrian Government the OPCW sent a fact-finding team to Douma. The experts will arrive tomorrow. Syrian authorities will provide all the relevant security guarantees. Russia is ready to assist in ensuring its safety. We are interested in seeing independent experts there, so they can make all the necessary tests without delay.

The conditions on the ground, now that the Russian military police is present in Douma, are appropriate for conducting investigation of the alleged incident.

Russian services for chemical and radiological security visited the suspected site of the incident and did not find any traces of chemical substances. No persons treated for chemical poisoning were found in local hospitals ...

UK statements in favour of an independent investigation clearly contradict those automatically laying the blame on the Syrian government.

Military strikes may be used to cover up all the evidence, or lack thereof, on the ground. Such a decision, if it’s taken, in violation of the international law and the Charter of the United Nations may well mark the latest in the series of the reckless military adventures by the UK ...

It’s essential to avoid any steps which could escalate the tensions."

Its just more of their usual delaying tactics.

The Russians are just trolling the international community at this stage.

They know Assad did it. We know Assad did it.

Its pretty sad they feel a need to back a guy that regularly uses chemical weapons and has been found to do so by international experts repeatedly. Its equally sad that some people on here also feel a need to defend the brutal mass murdering Assad.
So long as he's against America they will defend such a person to the last.

You are "mocked" because you didn't bother to read through the thread or familiarise yourself with the fact the Russians have tried to stop such proof being discovered.

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so if they are so keen on an investigation why did they block the UNSC vote?

I don't know.

I still want proof before Syria turns into a multiple-decade conflict like Iraq, which it will.

cnocbui

Vladimir Poontang wrote: »

All the Airsoft boys believing the gas lie would do well to educate themselves on previous lies about gas in Syria.

From Seymour Hersh

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article165905578/Trump-s-Red-Line.html

And a pretty thorough riposte to Hersch and his anonymous sources here.

RebelButtMunch

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Its just more of their usual delaying tactics.

The Russians are just trolling the international community at this stage.

They know Assad did it. We know Assad did it.

Christ on a bike. There hasn't been any proof of *it* yet!. Please point me in the direction of something other than the 10 second clip on all the news channels.

Shurimgreat

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Its just more of their usual delaying tactics.

The Russians are just trolling the international community at this stage.

They know Assad did it. We know Assad did it.

Its pretty sad they feel a need to back a guy that regularly uses chemical weapons and has been found to do so by international experts repeatedly. Its equally sad that some people on here also feel a need to defend the brutal mass murdering Assad.
So long as he's against America they will defend such a person to the last.

You are "mocked" because you didn't bother to read through the thread or familiarise yourself with the fact the Russians have tried to stop such proof being discovered.

I didn't bother reading it because it's full of people like you accusing people like me of defending Assad, when all we want is proof. It's as if there are still people who think the Iraq stuff, which happened in our lifetimes, is still just a conspiracy.

If he really did it, sure, bomb him into oblivion. But until there's proof, the West needs to tone down the war drum.