Dublin - BusConnects

MJohnston

Last Stop wrote: »

I’m not splitting hairs. I don’t have to repeat what the OP said again. There was no reference to changing timetables or anything other than enforcement of bus lanes. That on its own wouldn’t result in the figures suggested.

What you're saying here could almost be in the dictionary as a definition of "splitting hairs"

Last Stop

MJohnston wrote: »

So you think we shouldn't enforce bus lanes? You seem to really struggle with answering questions

No, of course there should be enforcement but the results of this are being grossly exaggerated

Last Stop

MJohnston wrote: »

What you're saying here could almost be in the dictionary as a definition of "splitting hairs"

That’s your opinion. In my opinion the original post was misleading

MJohnston

Last Stop wrote: »

No, of course there should be enforcement but the results of this are being grossly exaggerated

Glad we can finally all agree that enforcement is necessary. As for 'gross exaggeration', well that's just your opinion, which I see no reason to respect or trust as informed or educated.

Last Stop

MJohnston wrote: »

Glad we can finally all agree that enforcement is necessary. As for 'gross exaggeration', well that's just your opinion, which I see no reason to respect or trust as informed or educated.

Have you any source to suggest that the figures quoted are not exaggerated?

MJohnston

Last Stop wrote: »

That’s your opinion. In my opinion the original post was misleading

If the original post only misled you, and not dozens of other posters, there's a good chance the problem wasn't with the original post.

MJohnston

Last Stop wrote: »

Have you any source to suggest that the figures quoted are not exaggerated?

Have you a source to suggest that they *are*? See how childish this game is?

LeinsterDub

Last Stop wrote: »

No, of course there should be enforcement but the results of this are being grossly exaggerated

Enforcement, would have 3 primary benefits.

1) improved journey times
2) improved frequency (after the timetables are updated)
3) improved consistency

Over the course of route all you need is a 6 minute saving for it to be a 10% improvement. On a route with a 6 minute frequency you would be able to run at 5 minute frequency. 18% improvement.

In my personal opinion many of the routes in the city could easily get a 15 minute improvement fairly easily.

donvito99

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Enforcement, would have 3 primary benefits.

1) improved journey times
2) improved frequency (after the timetables are updated)
3) improved consistency

Over the course of route all you need is a 6 minute saving for it to be a 10% improvement. On a route with a 6 minute frequency you would be able to run at 5 minute frequency. 18% improvement.

In my personal opinion many of the routes in the city could easily get a 15 minute improvement fairly easily.

QED

Last Stop

MJohnston wrote: »

Have you a source to suggest that they *are*? See how childish this game is?

If you can’t provide a source that’s fine but based on my research there is little to no evidence to suggest that the benefits are anything of the magnitude suggested. In fact, it’s difficult to find any evidence of a reduction at all, most articles citing the amount of fines issued by bus lane enforcement which would suggest that it doesn’t work that well at all.

MJohnston

Last Stop wrote: »

If you can’t provide a source that’s fine but based on my research there is little to no evidence to suggest that the benefits are anything of the magnitude suggested. In fact, it’s difficult to find any evidence of a reduction at all, most articles citing the amount of fines issued by bus lane enforcement which would suggest that it doesn’t work that well at all.

Source?

LeinsterDub

Last Stop wrote: »

If you can’t provide a source that’s fine but based on my research there is little to no evidence to suggest that the benefits are anything of the magnitude suggested. In fact, it’s difficult to find any evidence of a reduction at all, most articles citing the amount of fines issued by bus lane enforcement which would suggest that it doesn’t work that well at all.

Officials say the new 14th Street Truck & Transit Priority lanes have contributed to a 38% decrease in travel times and a ridership jump to more than 32,000 daily customers

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7ny.com/amp/traffic/14th-street-busway-buses-getting-cameras-to-catch-rule-breakers/5708786/

quid pro quo clarice

Last Stop

MJohnston wrote: »

Source?

Ahhh so it’s not a two way street?

Sam Russell

Mod: Cut the nit picking.

Bul lane enforcement will improve running times for buses. that will then allow schedule changes that will follow.

Discussion closed.

Sam Russell

Mod; Posts deleted - discussion on bus lane enforcement closed.


Any further posts will earn a few days off.

cgcsb

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Let's imagine a bus company has 12 buses. They run 6 buses up and down each hour. The journey takes an hour. The maximum frequency they can achieve is 6 buses per hour per direction . Now the city decides to introduce a bus lane. The journey time becomes 30 minutes. The frequency can be upped to 9 buses an hour per direction

I didn't think that would need explaining but hey.

CatInABox

Consultation extended. Not sure by how much, there really hasn't been as much outcry about it this time at all, so I haven't really kept track of it at all.

The only real disappointment I have with it is the H spine, it's a bit of a missed opportunity to do something more with the city centre end of it, and the fact that it completely ignores all the evidence that Jarrett Walker compiled about how spine services shouldn't end in the city centre.

https://twitter.com/BusConnects/status/1199657389038931969

LXFlyer

CatInABox wrote: »

Consultation extended. Not sure by how much, there really hasn't been as much outcry about it this time at all, so I haven't really kept track of it at all.

The only real disappointment I have with it is the H spine, it's a bit of a missed opportunity to do something more with the city centre end of it, and the fact that it completely ignores all the evidence that Jarrett Walker compiled about how spine services shouldn't end in the city centre.

https://twitter.com/BusConnects/status/1199657389038931969

Extended by a week.

To be fair, most of the significant concerns from the first consultation appear to have been addressed by the second draft, but certain local issues remain, most of which are not insurmountable, but I’d stillhave some concerns about some of the proposed corridor frequencies compared with existing levels (they’re dropping).

Bizarrely I see that some people think that asking the very people who use the bus service about the revised network is a bad idea. Given the scale of change involved and the shortcomings of the original plan, that has been shown to be utterly daft.

The original Network Direct plans were consulted on and were changed around before implementation and this is no different.

TheChrisD

CatInABox wrote: »

The only real disappointment I have with it is the H spine, it's a bit of a missed opportunity to do something more with the city centre end of it, and the fact that it completely ignores all the evidence that Jarrett Walker compiled about how spine services shouldn't end in the city centre.

Agreed. Even if the only change they make it something like merging the G and H spines together, at least it's something to make it cross-city rather than both spines ending in somewhat awkward locations.

Thinkingaboutit

I gave my spake on the deadline. The main two routes for me seem similar to the 150 and 54A, although the old 83, which got me over to Finglas / Glasnevin would be two routes at least, with a changeover near Stephen's Green.

Prefect_1998

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

I gave my spake on the deadline. The main two routes for me seem similar to the 150 and 54A, although the old 83, which got me over to Finglas / Glasnevin would be two routes at least, with a changeover near Stephen's Green.

We got a nice big colour pamphlet with a secrion of map..

I had a look and i am confused by the number 8..
Airport to mount merrion via o'Connell street, the text says

Checked the live route map online and does not go near o'Connell street at all... which route do i believe ?

D

CatInABox

danielle_door wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

We got a nice big colour pamphlet with a secrion of map..

I had a look and i am confused by the number 8..
Airport to mount merrion via o'Connell street, the text says

Checked the live route map online and does not go near o'Connell street at all... which route do i believe ?

D

The 8 goes from Merrion Sq, not Mount Merrion.

Other than that, what's most likely happening is that the route mapper is giving you the fastest route out to the airport, instead of the most direct. This mapper is also including waiting time, usually calculated at half the frequency, i.e. a bus every 10 minutes gives a wait time of 5 minutes.

Prefect_1998

CatInABox wrote: »

The 8 goes from Merrion Sq, not Mount Merrion.

Other than that, what's most likely happening is that the route mapper is giving you the fastest route out to the airport, instead of the most direct. This mapper is also including waiting time, usually calculated at half the frequency, i.e. a bus every 10 minutes gives a wait time of 5 minutes.

Sorry Merrion sq

No its not the fastest route ithe map shows the route the 8 will take ,which is down consitiution hill left onto the quays then onto dame street and up georges street, follows the 83 path. For the elderly on that 8 new route it misses out on the mater, dorset street, o'Connell street doiler street..

Not sure why they feel is a better path now... the 9 was a much more direct bus than the new 8

BonnieSituation

danielle_door wrote: »

Sorry Merrion sq

No its not the fastest route ithe map shows the route the 8 will take ,which is down consitiution hill left onto the quays then onto dame street and up georges street, follows the 83 path. For the elderly on that 8 new route it misses out on the mater, dorset street, o'Connell street doiler street..

Not sure why they feel is a better path now... the 9 was a much more direct bus than the new 8

The elderly can switch buses like the rest of us.

Peregrine

danielle_door wrote: »

Sorry Merrion sq

No its not the fastest route ithe map shows the route the 8 will take ,which is down consitiution hill left onto the quays then onto dame street and up georges street, follows the 83 path. For the elderly on that 8 new route it misses out on the mater, dorset street, o'Connell street doiler street..

Not sure why they feel is a better path now... the 9 was a much more direct bus than the new 8

That seems to be a typo on the booklet. It doesn't go on the quays either, it crosses the river onto Bridge Street and goes to Dame Street and George's Street.

The 8 takes the same route through Phibsborough as the current 9 so it's as close to the Mater as it was before depending on which entrance you use. Very fine margins and not worth a debate.

They will gain access to Smithfield and other areas. D'Olier Street is very close to Dame Street.

O'Connell Street. Not every bus can go through every street. There are far too many buses on O'Connell Street and College Green. Yes, some people will have to get to the city via a different road.

I would use the new 8. I would much prefer the new route over the current 9. You can't please everyone.

It's a much more direct route than the 9. It doesn't go on crazy detours through McKee Road, Clune Road, Beneavin and Glasnevin Avenue. It's only less direct if you only look at it in the context of getting to O'Connell Street. Which not everyone does.

Thinkingaboutit

danielle_door wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

We got a nice big colour pamphlet with a secrion of map..

I had a look and i am confused by the number 8..
Airport to mount merrion via o'Connell street, the text says

Checked the live route map online and does not go near o'Connell street at all... which route do i believe ?

D

The website does have electronic copies of the leaflets. That there could be a divergence is a bit unsettling. Also some of the routes seem to have a heavy preference towards already busy spots. One good thing about the current DB service is that in most, or at least a lot of Dublin, there's choice in respect of routes to the city centre. I could do no worse than compare the postal one with the local one on the website. My guess is that website is the most up to date, but not necessarily. Websites need a webmaster / editor updating it.

LXFlyer

The text in the brochure is wrong, which frankly is criminal given that people are relying on the info.

The 7 and 8 don’t serve O’Connell Street in the plan.

Check the City Centre map for the correct routing from Church St to Merrion Square.
https://busconnects.ie/media/1718/city-centre-online-map-141019-fa.pdf

elmoslats

Kilkenny are getting free interchange before Dublin.

"For the first three months of operation, a promotional TFI Leap fare of €1 will be in place. TFI Leap fares will then be €1.40 for adults and €0.84 for children. Cash fares are €2.00 for adults and €1.20 for children. All fares include a transfer function, allowing passengers to interchange between KK1 and KK2 free of charge."

https://www.transportforireland.ie/news/new-kilkenny-city-bus-services-to-commence-on-18-december/

p_haugh

elmoslats wrote: »

Kilkenny are getting free interchange before Dublin.

"For the first three months of operation, a promotional TFI Leap fare of €1 will be in place. TFI Leap fares will then be €1.40 for adults and €0.84 for children. Cash fares are €2.00 for adults and €1.20 for children. All fares include a transfer function, allowing passengers to interchange between KK1 and KK2 free of charge."

https://www.transportforireland.ie/news/new-kilkenny-city-bus-services-to-commence-on-18-december/

Could be that TFI are testing this out before rolling it out elsewhere. Remember, Cork also got a 24 hour bus route before Dublin did.

BonnieSituation

p_haugh wrote: »

Could be that TFI are testing this out before rolling it out elsewhere. Remember, Cork also got a 24 hour bus route before Dublin did.

That's almost certainly the case.