Dublin - BusConnects

Last Stop

MJohnston wrote: »

Are you actually as stupid as your posts? Or just intentionally trolling? I mean, I can't even begin to understand how someone with a brain could type the above in seriousness.

How does removing cars effect frequencies? The frequencies are governed by the timetables. These don’t change by removing cars from bus lanes.

Stark

At the moment buses and drivers that could be serving passengers are regularly tied up travelling empty to terminal stops because the bus that was expected to start its return journey there isn't able to make it on time due to delays en route. Having consistent journey times frees up those buses/drivers.

donvito99

It stands to reason that if Dublin's bus lanes operated as intended i.e. without significant impediments in the form of parked cars/vans/lorries, bus journey times would be reduced, buses would arrive at the end of their routes more quickly, and more services could be formed as a result.

MJohnston

Last Stop wrote: »

How does removing cars effect frequencies? The frequencies are governed by the timetables. These don’t change by removing cars from bus lanes.

Enforcing bus lanes "benefits journey times" (your words).
Bus journey times are inarguably strongly correlated with bus frequencies.
QED: Enforcing bus lanes is strongly correlated with bus frequencies.

Last Stop

The suggestion that removing cars from bus lanes would automatically increase frequencies is not true.
It may well happen but it might also be a case that drivers simply wait at the start of the route.
Putting 2+2 together does not equal 5

donvito99

Last Stop wrote: »

The suggestion that removing cars from bus lanes would automatically increase frequencies is not true.
It may well happen but it might also be a case that drivers simply wait at the start of the route.
Putting 2+2 together does not equal 5

Haha how is it "not true". The existing bus timetable allows for Dublin's congestion. If you reduce congestion there will be an increase in slack in the timetable and you could run thousands more bus services per year if you didn't immediately dismiss the reality of the situation with some nonsense about "drivers simply wait at the start of the route".

MJohnston

Last Stop wrote: »

The suggestion that removing cars from bus lanes would automatically increase frequencies is not true.
It may well happen but it might also be a case that drivers simply wait at the start of the route.
Putting 2+2 together does not equal 5

Nah mate, you're hung up on some pedantic nonsense here. Nobody but you claimed there would be an *automatic* increase in frequencies.

Last Stop

MJohnston wrote: »

Nah mate, you're hung up on some pedantic nonsense here. Nobody but you claimed there would be an *automatic* increase in frequencies.

Ehhhh the original post did.

Last Stop

donvito99 wrote: »

Haha how is it "not true". The existing bus timetable allows for Dublin's congestion. If you reduce congestion there will be an increase in slack in the timetable and you could run thousands more bus services per year if you didn't immediately dismiss the reality of the situation with some nonsense about "drivers simply wait at the start of the route".

The existing bus timetable does not allow for Dublin’s congestion. That’s one of the problems. All Dublin bus journey times on their timetables are based on off-peak.

LXFlyer

Last Stop wrote: »

The existing bus timetable does not allow for Dublin’s congestion. That’s one of the problems. All Dublin bus journey times on their timetables are based on off-peak.

I think you are being somewhat disingenuous here.

To clarify, for Dublin Bus the guide times shown on the public timetable are based on off-peak estimates. But they are only guide times. They are not the timetable per se. The public timetable for Dublin Bus only has specified departure times from termini.

However the running times for peak departures on every route, i.e. the time allowed for a bus to get from one terminus to the other, are significantly longer at peak times than at off-peak.

The AVLC timetables on the NTA journey planner clearly show the longer times taken at peak periods when compared to off-peak (as indeed do the running boards).

GAI timetables do have specified intermediate times and these clearly show longer running times overall. Dublin Bus will have to implement similar intermediate timings in the course of the new PSO contract I believe.

It has also certainly been the case that revised bills (rosters) have been implemented in the past subsequent to improved bus priority measures being introduced, which saw running times reduced and fewer buses being required to operate the full schedule over the course of the day. This freed up buses for other services.

Sadly of late, it has generally been the opposite, as running times have generally had to be extended.

LeinsterDub

Last Stop wrote: »

How does removing cars effect frequencies? The frequencies are governed by the timetables. These don’t change by removing cars from bus lanes.

Let's imagine a bus company has 12 buses. They run 6 buses up and down each hour. The journey takes an hour. The maximum frequency they can achieve is 6 buses per hour per direction . Now the city decides to introduce a bus lane. The journey time becomes 30 minutes. The frequency can be upped to 9 buses an hour per direction

Last Stop

The original post said that enforcement of current bus lanes (no mention of changing timetables etc) would improve journey times and capacity on most routes by 20%. Simple.
That would mean a 1 hour journey going to 48 minutes and 10 minute frequencies going to 7 minutes.
The changes involved in doing that would have a result in a significant change in the timetable and rostering pattern as well as the number of buses on the road. To say that the benefits of bus lane enforcement would directly lead to this change simply isn’t true.
Look how long it’s taken to bring in 24 hour routes or just look at how much effort is required to alter the routes under Busconnects.

donvito99

Last Stop wrote: »

Look how long it’s taken to bring in 24 hour routes or just look at how much effort is required to alter the routes under Busconnects.

You can't equate another run in a day for 0 additional hours to working through the early hours but I guess you just did.

LXFlyer

Last Stop wrote: »

The original post said that enforcement of current bus lanes (no mention of changing timetables etc) would improve journey times and capacity on most routes by 20%. Simple.
That would mean a 1 hour journey going to 48 minutes and 10 minute frequencies going to 7 minutes.
The changes involved in doing that would have a result in a significant change in the timetable and rostering pattern as well as the number of buses on the road. To say that the benefits of bus lane enforcement would directly lead to this change simply isn’t true.
Look how long it’s taken to bring in 24 hour routes or just look at how much effort is required to alter the routes under Busconnects.

It is certainly the case in the past that revised rosters have been implemented subsequent to bus priority measures being introduced that have involved reduced running times.

No it didn’t happen immediately, but once the journey time patterns were established, there were roster changes, which were a direct result of the bus priority measures.

Suggesting otherwise is totally disingenuous.

Last Stop

MJohnston wrote: »

Enforcing bus lanes "benefits journey times" (your words).
Bus journey times are inarguably strongly correlated with bus frequencies.
QED: Enforcing bus lanes is strongly correlated with bus frequencies.

Bus journey times are not strongly correlated to with bus frequencies. They’re arguably inversely correlated. Typically the longer the journey time, the lower the frequency.

MJohnston

Last Stop wrote: »

Bus journey times are not strongly correlated to with bus frequencies. They’re arguably inversely correlated. Typically the longer the journey time, the lower the frequency.

No shít, an inverse correlation is still a correlation, <snip>.


Mod: No personal abuse please.

Last Stop

MJohnston wrote: »

No shít, an inverse correlation is still a correlation, <snip>.

There’s a massive difference between the two though

Last Stop

LXFlyer wrote: »

It is certainly the case in the past that revised rosters have been implemented subsequent to bus priority measures being introduced that have involved reduced running times.

No it didn’t happen immediately, but once the journey time patterns were established, there were roster changes, which were a direct result of the bus priority measures.

Suggesting otherwise is totally disingenuous.

This is my point. Removing cars does not immediately lead to an increase in frequencies. It may well do but to say that removing cars in bus lanes on its own would reduce one of the major problems facing buses in Dublin (lack of capacity) is not true.

LeinsterDub

Last Stop wrote: »

This is my point. Removing cars does not immediately lead to an increase in frequencies

OK we all accept that. Can we move on?

Last Stop wrote: »

It may well do but to say that removing cars in bus lanes on its own would reduce one of the major problems facing buses in Dublin (lack of capacity) is not true

Coupled with roster changes it would. Which gets us about 20 post back

MJohnston

Last Stop wrote: »

There’s a massive difference between the two though

No, there isn’t. So pedantic.

MJohnston

Last Stop wrote: »

This is my point. Removing cars does not immediately lead to an increase in frequencies. It may well do but to say that removing cars in bus lanes on its own would reduce one of the major problems facing buses in Dublin (lack of capacity) is not true.

This is unbelievably petty and dumb. What are you at?

Enforcing bus lanes will improve journey times (your words) which will very obviously create a lot of extra potential journey capacity.

So let’s ****ing enforce the bus lanes! Are you arguing that we shouldn’t? What is your actual position here other than trolling?

Last Stop

LeinsterDub wrote: »

OK we all accept that. Can we move on?

Coupled with roster changes it would. Which gets us about 20 post back

Exactly but that’s not what the original post said. It said that enforcement of current bus lanes would lead to a 20% increase in capacity. That on its own is not true.

donvito99

In 2003, Dublin Bus said that congestion was costing it in the region of €50m a year.

That's a lot of additional frequency....

LeinsterDub

Last Stop wrote: »

Exactly but that’s not what the original post said. It said that enforcement of current bus lanes would lead to a 20% increase in capacity. That on its own is not true.

Even if they did, who cares. You've made your point. You don't need to repeat constantly

Last Stop

MJohnston wrote: »

This is unbelievably petty and dumb. What are you at?

Enforcing bus lanes will improve journey times (your words) which will very obviously create a lot of extra potential journey capacity.

So let’s ****ing enforce the bus lanes! Are you arguing that we shouldn’t? What is your actual position here other than trolling?

The suggestion was that this would automatically happen and that isn’t true. The figures used are also completely unrealistic.
How can you measure enforcement as a percentage? What percentage is it at now?
20% reduction in journey times on most routes is also incredibly ambitious given the lack of bus lanes on a number of routes. Take the 17 as a single example.
A 20% increase in capacity is not reasonable either.

Last Stop

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Even if they did, who cares. You've made your point. You don't need to repeat constantly

A lot of people apparently. You and others have spent the last few pages trying to defend the point.

donvito99

Last Stop wrote: »

A lot of people apparently. You and others have spent the last few pages trying to defend the point.

You have made a habit of derailing this thread, to such an extent that you've already been instructed by the mods to drop one particular line of disruption.

LeinsterDub

Last Stop wrote: »

A lot of people apparently. You and others have spent the last few pages trying to defend the point.

I did no such thing. Perhaps you should actually read what people actually said. You're splitting hairs over something that someone might have potentially implied. Something which was fairly obvious to the rest of us. That you'd have to change the timetable

MJohnston

Last Stop wrote: »

The suggestion was that this would automatically happen and that isn’t true. The figures used are also completely unrealistic.
How can you measure enforcement as a percentage? What percentage is it at now?
20% reduction in journey times on most routes is also incredibly ambitious given the lack of bus lanes on a number of routes. Take the 17 as a single example.
A 20% increase in capacity is not reasonable either.

So you think we shouldn't enforce bus lanes? You seem to really struggle with answering questions

Last Stop

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I did no such thing. Perhaps you should actually read what people actually said. You're splitting hairs over something that someone might have potentially implied. Something which was fairly obvious to the rest of us. That you'd have to change the timetable

I’m not splitting hairs. I don’t have to repeat what the OP said again. There was no reference to changing timetables or anything other than enforcement of bus lanes. That on its own wouldn’t result in the figures suggested.