Dublin - BusConnects

RayCun

You will also see more traffic diverting along the Dodder rather than through Rathdown, and along Butterfield avenue rather than through Templeogue village.

LXFlyer

RayCun wrote: »

1. Describing Rathdown Avenue as "principally a residential road" suggests it is an oasis of calm that is going to be turned into a major thoroughfare by the nefarious planners. But at peak times it is already in heavy use.

2. As LeinsterDub said, there is no reason to believe the level of traffic is a constant. If buses and cycling become more attractive options, and driving becomes less attractive, the number of cars will be reduced. Maybe those people who continue to drive will have longer waits in Rathdown - but there are fewer of them than there are bus passengers who will see journey times cut.

I’m not suggesting it’s an oasis but it could become nothing but chock a block completely with this plan as there are limited options if Templeogue Road is removed as a through route.

LXFlyer

RayCun wrote: »

You will also see more traffic diverting along the Dodder rather than through Rathdown, and along Butterfield avenue rather than through Templeogue village.

Which are also full.

My point is that there are far wider implications to these changes than just the villages and that the impact across the area needs some analysis.

RayCun

LXFlyer wrote: »

Which are also full.

This is the problem.

The city is full.

There are too many people driving cars.

We have to change the balance of car use to public transport use.

We can't add public transport capacity without reducing private car capacity.

If you are waiting for the NTA to come up with a plan that doesn't involve delays for car users you will be waiting a long time.

LXFlyer

RayCun wrote: »

This is the problem.

The city is full.

There are too many people driving cars.

We have to change the balance of car use to public transport use.

We can't add public transport capacity without reducing private car capacity.

If you are waiting for the NTA to come up with a plan that doesn't involve delays for car users you will be waiting a long time.

WIth all due respect I am NOT against plans to improve public transport.

What I am doing is merely questioning whether there should be a right turn ban into Rathdown for example and what the impact on the other routes will be.

Some of you seem to think that there should be no questioning of any of these plans whatsoever.

FYI I’m not a driver. I am a bus passenger. But I do have reservations about the impact of some of the aspects of these plans.

CatInABox

LXFlyer wrote: »

Not from a main arterial route it doesn’t.

At least be realistic about this.

There are wider implications to these plans.

Don’t get me wrong - I’m not against them per se but I can see problems that will need addressing.

Yes, it does disappear from main arterial routes as well.

An early example of the reduced demand effect was described by Jane Jacobs in her classic 1961 book The Death and Life of Great American Cities. Jacobs and others convinced New York City to close the street that split Greenwich Village's Washington Square Park in two, and also not to widen the surrounding streets to service the extra capacity they were expected to carry because of the closing of the street. The city's traffic engineers expected the result to be chaos, but, in fact, the extra traffic never appeared, as drivers instead avoided the area entirely.

Two widely known examples of reduced demand occurred in San Francisco, California and in Manhattan, New York City, where, respectively, the Embarcadero Freeway and the lower portion of the elevated West Side Highway were torn down after sections of them collapsed. Concerns were expressed that the traffic which had used these highways would overwhelm local streets, but, in fact, the traffic, instead of being displaced, for the most part disappeared entirely. A New York State Department of Transportation study showed that 93% of the traffic which had used the West Side Highway was not displaced, but simply vanished.

See here.

Sam Russell

Remember when clamping was introduced in Dublin? Suddenly illegal parking was a no-no, and also suddenly legal parking became easier.

Recently, I was walking down Donore Ave in Dublin 8. It was noticeable that just about every house had a car parked on the pavement, nearly, and actually, blocking it. Now this was in the middle of the day, so not commuters (but maybe - those that would walk the last few kms) but more likely house holders. Now why is this allowed? Nearby parking further East is pay parking from 7 am to midnight, which I assume is controlled.

Tackling parking in Dublin, CC and suburbs would make buses go faster, particularly the vans that park just anywhere, cycle lanes, bus lanes, double lines, and pavements - even when legal parking is available within 10 metres - they only do it for two minutes - yeah. More clearways for spine roots is needed and could be implemented now.

Parking (on street) is an earner for DCC, so that might be a reason they are unwilling to reduce it.

cgcsb

LXFlyer wrote: »

The real issue in Terenure, Rathgar and Rathmines is where all the displaced traffic is going to go as a result of the proposed road closures, particularly that displaced from Templeogue Road.

you should propose associated traffic calming on nearby streets to the NTA.

LXFlyer

cgcsb wrote: »

you should propose associated traffic calming on nearby streets to the NTA.

I don’t need people here to tell me what to and what not to propose. I’m well capable of thinking for myself.

I’m pointing out that there are going to be not-so-obvious negative impacts of this.

Many of which will make the orbital bus routes less palatable if many cars are shifted off radial routes, there being zero improvements planned during this period for orbital corridors in terms of bus priority measures.

AndrewJRenko

LXFlyer wrote: »

The real issue in Terenure, Rathgar and Rathmines is where all the displaced traffic is going to go as a result of the proposed road closures, particularly that displaced from Templeogue Road.

Probably onto the buses.

LXFlyer

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Probably onto the buses.

Ah yes the city bound buses that are already full, and which incredibly the BusConnects network review proposed reducing in frequency, and that was before Dublin Bus increased the frequencies on many of them over the past six months.

Or onto the orbital routes (which have also already increased in frequency) which, due to no proposed infrastructure on the orbital corridors planned until after 2027, and likely increased displaced traffic, will get slower and slower.

I do not share your optimism for the south central area sadly.

Qrt

LXFlyer wrote: »

Ah yes the city bound buses that are already full, and which incredibly the BusConnects network review proposed reducing in frequency, and that was before Dublin Bus increased the frequencies on many of them over the past six months.

Did the busconnects report not say that the buses would be “every 10 mins or less”? I’m fairly sure it was just used as a catch all category instead of dividing the categories into too discrete categories.

LXFlyer

Qrt wrote: »

Did the busconnects report not say that the buses would be “every 10 mins or less”? I’m fairly sure it was just used as a catch all category instead of dividing the categories into too discrete categories.

The BusConnects plan was predicated on reducing the number of buses on radial services to, from and through the city centre to provide increased orbital services.

Dublin Bus have spent the last six months increasing frequencies on those routes with more to come, and GoAhead have also increased orbital route frequencies.

Those buses are pretty much full at peak times and often during the day too, particularly in the south city where no rail alternative exists.

Stephen15

LXFlyer wrote: »

The BusConnects plan was predicated on reducing the number of buses on radial services to, from and through the city centre to provide increased orbital services.

Dublin Bus have spent the last six months increasing frequencies on those routes with more to come, and GoAhead have also increased orbital route frequencies.

Those buses are pretty much full at peak times and often during the day too, particularly in the south city where no rail alternative exists.

I'm pretty sure i remember hearing that one of the underlying assumptions to whole bus connects network redesign was that services would remain the same as they were in summer 2018. I would imagine that when a revised plan is released which I would judging by the submissions there will be fairly significant changes to the plan that the increase in services will be factored in as I cannot see there being cuts to the level of services.

LXFlyer

Stephen15 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure i remember hearing that one of the underlying assumptions to whole bus connects network redesign was that services would remain the same as they were in summer 2018. I would imagine that when a revised plan is released which I would judging by the submissions there will be fairly significant changes to the plan that the increase in services will be factored in as I cannot see there being cuts to the level of services.

Or perhaps rather than “hearing things” you could actually crunch the numbers as I and others have. They certainly did not involve maintaining existing service levels on radial corridors.

The bottom line is that the plan was predicated on reducing the number of buses on radial routes and using those buses to increase orbital services (something much needed).

The problem with that is that almost a year later, orbital service levels have been increased (including a new route), but demand for radial services is still increasing, and while radial service levels have also been increased the demand is outstripping supply, particularly in south Dublin where no rail alternatives exist.

To allow for the levels of switching from cars to buses that some here think can happen, will require another major expansion of the bus fleet, which as far as I am aware wasn’t in the plans beyond the current fleet expansion.

CatInABox

Rathgar residents think that losing a few metres of their gardens should result in them getting up to 25% of the value of their homes.

Fecking shameless.

cgcsb

Lol, 'Residents claim...' 'estate agent employed by residents claim....'

attempt at balance = 0

CatInABox

cgcsb wrote: »

Lol, 'Residents claim...' 'estate agent employed by residents claim....'

attempt at balance = 0

Pretty sure the estate agent lives around there too. Very balanced :mad:

matrim

CatInABox wrote: »

Rathgar residents think that losing a few metres of their gardens should result in them getting up to 25% of the value of their homes.

Fecking shameless.

There should be a payment above market rate for a CPO of their gardens but 500000 is a ridiculous expectation

cgcsb

Why is a national newspaper helping estate agents fly kites for negotiations?

CatInABox

cgcsb wrote: »

Why is a national newspaper helping estate agents fly kites for negotiations?

Because they've long been vehicles for the property industry

CatInABox

matrim wrote: »

There should be a payment above market rate for a CPO of their gardens but 500000 is a ridiculous expectation

Yes, I believe that's usually the plan, attempt to negotiate with the owner, and if that fails, a CPO is issued at less than the value that was offered during the negotiation.

Totally off the wall stuff though.

Qrt

Times like this I’m glad my buses take the more working-class corridors. I never thought I’d write that as a sentence but there you go.

marno21

https://extra.ie/2019/03/03/news/irish-news/fine-gael-tds-put-breaks-on-plans-to-redraw-bus-routes-for-busconnect-transport-plan

Surprise surprise Dublin Bay South at the centre of all this yet again.

prunudo

We have a serious issue here, as posted in the Metrolink link thread where there are plans for 2000 apartments along the route.
On one hand you have councils allowing planning to solve the housing crisis but on the other you have Tds threatening to scupper plan the infrastructure plans to transport these new residents.

Qrt

marno21 wrote: »

https://extra.ie/2019/03/03/news/irish-news/fine-gael-tds-put-breaks-on-plans-to-redraw-bus-routes-for-busconnect-transport-plan

Surprise surprise Dublin Bay South at the centre of all this yet again.

Times like this I really appreciate my good level of German just so I can f*** off there and leave this mess.

Idbatterim

Some morons might lose Their seats , to be replaced with other morons. Bus connects will make a huge difference to msny people’s lives. Whatever spineless fools are In the Dail won’t!

Idbatterim

marno21 wrote: »

https://extra.ie/2019/03/03/news/irish-news/fine-gael-tds-put-breaks-on-plans-to-redraw-bus-routes-for-busconnect-transport-plan

Surprise surprise Dublin Bay South at the centre of all this yet again.

I hope to god she loses her seat over this , try to win over a single digit percentage of her nimby electorate and I hope the other 90%+ make her pay for it ...

L1011

The parking bays outside Kate O'Connells pharmacy are to be removed apparently

Michael McDowell owns a rental property adjacent to the Metrlolink upgrade zone at Ranelagh station.

The media here seem to be utterly incapable of using the public register of interests to notice conflicts of interest and effectively stop public reps protecting their own interests in the media.

Idbatterim

Can’t stand the sight of these idiots any more. Will happily vote ff or sf out of spite at this stage.