Dublin - BusConnects

Stephen15

RayCun wrote: »

Yeah, tell a driver to stop for ten minutes at a stop for no reason other than to let the bus ahead get further ahead.
The passengers would love that.

Ideally if there was space on the bus in front the driver could issue a transfer voucher like in London and let the passengers on the bus move on to the bus in front as long they're not going to make that bus full. Go-Ahead do it as part of their contract obligations with the NTA.

I think passengers would rather it than having to wait over 20 mins for a bus that's supposed to run at a frequency of every 10 mins.

Dats me

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/north-dublin-residents-prepared-to-sacrifice-gardens-for-busconnects-1.3756564

Don't think this was posted here before, but nice to see positive coverage and locals supporting the project!

Marcusm

cgcsb wrote: »

I know what you mean but the battle is different. In Santry it's the 'concerned resident' Helen Lovejoy Crowd, and the conflicting interests is motorists vs local owners of gardens. I'm also not convinced that the NTA will go with the 2 way Santry option. In Rathmines it's concerned motorists vs people who cycle. Much less sympathy there.

It’s also businesses (including the ever expanding Swan Centre) who will be concerned as to loss of business.

cgcsb

Marcusm wrote: »

It’s also businesses (including the ever expanding Swan Centre) who will be concerned as to loss of business.

Given the cost of Parking in the Swan, it seems that they have the power to attract more car journeys if they wish.

AndrewJRenko

Marcusm wrote: »

It’s also businesses (including the ever expanding Swan Centre) who will be concerned as to loss of business.

Presumably they haven't read the considerable international evidence showing how retailers tend to do much better when cars are removed or reduced and people get to enjoy spending time in a place, instead of living in a car park.

cgcsb

Most of the rest of the proposed corridors are available on the website:

Rathfarnham bellow: https://busconnects.ie/media/1453/12-busconnects-cbc-rathfarnham-to-city-centre-040119-fa.pdf

They've gone with presenting the convoluted detour in Rathmines for bikes as a 'b' option.

CatInABox

cgcsb wrote: »

Most of the rest of the proposed corridors are available on the website:

Rathfarnham bellow: https://busconnects.ie/media/1453/12-busconnects-cbc-rathfarnham-to-city-centre-040119-fa.pdf

They've gone with presenting the convoluted detour in Rathmines for bikes as a 'b' option.

The rest of them are available here.

I'll have a look through them now.

cgcsb

I like the busgate at James's hospital. An innovative solution. Also the busgate on Richmond St is good. Also consider the Old Cabra Raod/Prussia st car restrictions and the arterial driving routes are greatly reduced, a reduction in car commuting is definitely on the cards.

Grassey

cgcsb wrote: »

Rathfarnham bellow:

Detour off the main route through narrow shared alley to Brookvale from Rathfarnham Village to a quirky 2 lane cycle lane to the pedestrian lights, rather than continue the 500m directly downhill in the buslane... yeah... that won't work

donvito99

Grassey wrote: »

Detour off the main route through narrow shared alley to Brookvale from Rathfarnham Village to a quirky 2 lane cycle lane to the pedestrian lights, rather than continue the 500m directly downhill in the buslane... yeah... that won't work

My favourite is the inbound cycle lane which ends in a cliff-edge type fashion at the top of Templeogue Rd, expecting you to (presumably dismount) and cross into what eventually becomes Bushy Park, before ending again about 200 metres later and demanding that you to cross back over to the inbound side of Templeogue Rd...

Bus connects is much hyped in terms of cycling infrastructure but it looks like the same old balls in parts - and will these lanes even be policed?

Dats me

Is there any chance at all that these restrictions on cars will be allowed to happen?

The garden CPOing in Santry seems to have actually gone down well which shows people's attachment to their cars

donvito99

I'm worried that this project is heavy with CPO and the politics of this will kill investment in these corridors leaving us with the same old commutes for longer.

Like, why does Rathgar Rd (three lanes at present, inbound bus lane only) need to have two dedicated bus lanes? Bus priority signalling is already touted, so why not instead have gantries (like the ones already used for conventional traffic lights at larger junctions) to advise cars what lanes they may use? So you'd get a dedicated peak bus lane and two general traffic lanes all day, and we'd avoid CPO.

Rulmeq

Iditotic headline from the indo: "Traffic ligths on the M50"
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/traffic-lights-on-m50-part-of-disruptions-under-bus-connects-plan-37744021.html

prunudo

Rulmeq wrote: »

Iditotic headline from the indo: "Traffic ligths on the M50"
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/traffic-lights-on-m50-part-of-disruptions-under-bus-connects-plan-37744021.html

Typical modern day media, click bait headlines and loose facts.

cgcsb

The Indo's little poll: Do you think this would work? lol, talk about baiting the great unwashed. No chance of them prefixing the question with 'how many years traffic modelling have you?' and no mention of what they mean by 'work'.

markpb

The writer is on Twitter.

CatInABox

That's an exceptionally stupid headline.

Next we'll have as a headline:
Dublin Airports new plan will have planes on the M50!

While the text will say:
More planes will fly over the M50 at a height of hundreds of feet, under Dublin Airports new plan.


In fairness to the article writer, they usually don't write the headlines.

Marcusm

cgcsb wrote: »

Given the cost of Parking in the Swan, it seems that they have the power to attract more car journeys if they wish.

€3 for 2 hours is cheaper than on street parking although not if you only stay 30 mins

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Presumably they haven't read the considerable international evidence showing how retailers tend to do much better when cars are removed or reduced and people get to enjoy spending time in a place, instead of living in a car park.

There’s a major supermarket in the centre refurbished at significant expense. It’s not unknown for people to require a car to do a large household shop!

The recent addition of Fallon & Byrne makes it more of a destination for some (not me) and Elephant & Castle likewise for suburban parents who want to relive the 1990s student experiences.

I live close enough that I need to use the car park infrequently but I can recognise that there will be complaints. That being said, BusConnects is the future of transportation in Dublin.

cgcsb

Marcusm wrote: »

€3 for 2 hours is cheaper than on street parking although not if you only stay 30 mins

They could make it free if they think that attracting more car trips is that important.

Marcusm wrote: »

There’s a major supermarket in the centre refurbished at significant expense. It’s not unknown for people to require a car to do a large household shop!

The recent addition of Fallon & Byrne makes it more of a destination for some (not me) and Elephant & Castle likewise for suburban parents who want to relive the 1990s student experiences.

I live close enough that I need to use the car park infrequently but I can recognise that there will be complaints. That being said, BusConnects is the future of transportation in Dublin.

The car access is on Castlewood avenue which will still have 2 way access.

Marcusm

cgcsb wrote: »

They could make it free if they think that attracting more car trips is that important.



The car access is on Castlewood avenue which will still have 2 way access.

I don’t think that offering a free car park would attract anything other than commuters!

There are entrances to the car park on both Castlewood Avenue and Rathmines Road Lower (between cinema and McDonald’s). There is no exit onto Rathmines Road.

Perhaps i’ve Led too much focus on there. The residents of Leinster Sq and thereabouts would also have to take some detours on a inbound only car route, especially since the changes to Mount Pleasant Avenue. These are only small items.

As an interim measure, it would be nice to see a clear way created and enforced rather than the crazy parking on street between 10am and noon.

I see that not only did they bottle extending the inbound QBC on the section of Templeogue Road between Terenure College and the junction with Terenure Road, they're actually removing 700m and only adding 190m at the section leading up to the junction with Terenure Road.

That's a huge net-loss at peak on that section as compared to current movements, and the houses fronting onto the street could all easily still fit two cars in driveway even with significant CPO.

Don't get me started on the madness of the Rathfarnham cycle path diversion, just make the bus lane for that section only a shared space for cyclists and buses with clearly marked priority for bicycles with no overtaking. It's not optimal but at least it's a realistic bloody solution.

Morons.

Dats me

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I see that not only did they bottle extending the inbound QBC on the section of Templeogue Road between Terenure College and the junction with Terenure Road, they're actually removing 700m and only adding 190m at the section leading up to the junction with Terenure Road.

That's a huge net-loss at peak on that section as compared to current movements, and the houses fronting onto the street could all easily still fit two cars in driveway even with significant CPO.

Don't get me started on the madness of the Rathfarnham cycle path diversion, just make the bus lane for that section only a shared space for cyclists and buses with clearly marked priority for bicycles with no overtaking. It's not optimal but at least it's a realistic bloody solution.

Morons.

But surely there's nothing to stop people cycling in the bus lanes anywhere if they want to?

Thanks, I never would have imagined. That doesn't help with the issue of cyclists (or potential cyclists) being intimidated by cycling in bus lanes, nor does it help with the money/time/effort being expanded on ludicrous cycle routes that no-one will use, nor with even more added local opposition to the plan.

LXFlyer

Deleted User wrote: »

I see that not only did they bottle extending the inbound QBC on the section of Templeogue Road between Terenure College and the junction with Terenure Road, they're actually removing 700m and only adding 190m at the section leading up to the junction with Terenure Road.

That's a huge net-loss at peak on that section as compared to current movements, and the houses fronting onto the street could all easily still fit two cars in driveway even with significant CPO.

Don't get me started on the madness of the Rathfarnham cycle path diversion, just make the bus lane for that section only a shared space for cyclists and buses with clearly marked priority for bicycles with no overtaking. It's not optimal but at least it's a realistic bloody solution.

Morons.

Given that general traffic would be banned from heading towards Terenure Village along Templeogue Road north of Olney Place under this plan, and no right turns allowed off Templeogue Rd the need for an inbound bus lane on Templeogue Road is somewhat academic I would suggest.

Dats me

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks, I never would have imagined. That doesn't help with the issue of cyclists (or potential cyclists) being intimidated by cycling in bus lanes, nor does it help with the money/time/effort being expanded on ludicrous cycle routes that no-one will use, nor with even more added local opposition to the plan.

But your solution of having the only cycling path be a shared bus lane hardly solves that problem?


If that's the only alternative providing the diversion at least adds a cycling route.

sharper

Dats me wrote: »

But surely there's nothing to stop people cycling in the bus lanes anywhere if they want to?

That's probably what will happen since people will always follow the most sensible path regardless of signage.

The downside is though bikes in the bus lane severely limit the buses and slow them down. They did a lot of great work on the chapelizoid bypass a couple of years ago to enhance the bus priority but it's all wasted when a bus (and soon several buses) get stuck behind a cyclist. If they'd made it just a teeny bit wider buses would be able to pass them.

I can't imagine it's a lot of fun for the drivers either. Watching them drive up the quays is like watching a while surrounded by a school of fish.

tobsey

sharper wrote: »

That's probably what will happen since people will always follow the most sensible path regardless of signage.

The downside is though bikes in the bus lane severely limit the buses and slow them down. They did a lot of great work on the chapelizoid bypass a couple of years ago to enhance the bus priority but it's all wasted when a bus (and soon several buses) get stuck behind a cyclist. If they'd made it just a teeny bit wider buses would be able to pass them.

I can't imagine it's a lot of fun for the drivers either. Watching them drive up the quays is like watching a while surrounded by a school of fish.

Whenever cyclists in a bus lane is mentioned the Chapelizod by-pass is mentioned. However it is a unique stretch of road in the DB network that has a buslane, no traffic lights, and no stops for a long distance. Pretty much every other part of any other route would have the bus stop at stops and lights and the cyclists would be just as quick over the route. The times that a bus may be faster, such as off-peak when there's fewer people alighting, the bus can probably pass in the driving lane anyway.

sharper

tobsey wrote: »

Whenever cyclists in a bus lane is mentioned the Chapelizod by-pass is mentioned. However it is a unique stretch of road in the DB network that has a buslane, no traffic lights, and no stops for a long distance. Pretty much every other part of any other route would have the bus stop at stops and lights and the cyclists would be just as quick over the route. The times that a bus may be faster, such as off-peak when there's fewer people alighting, the bus can probably pass in the driving lane anyway.

It's definitely a noticeable section but I think it has less obvious impacts elsewhere. Like when trying to pull into a stop or let passengers off safely without them getting hit by a cyclist. I'm honestly amazed there aren't more accidents on the quays and that's mostly down to some quality bus driving because naturally most cyclists have no idea where the stops are or which buses stop where so they're often taken a little by surprise when a bus turns in.

I'm not criticising cyclists (though some are far better at sharing the road just as some drivers are) since they often have no other choice. I'm just pointing out a lot of value in bus infrastructure can be lost by not spending that little bit more to get a separate cycle lane or by a lack of continuous lanes.

Kfagan10

It's amazing how there is plenty of green space on the outbound side of the Chapelizod bypass to widen the road/add a seperate cycle track, but nothing in the Busconnects proposals to do this. They could even tarmac the path/cycle lane they never finished when the bus priority measures were put in a couple of years ago.

This should also be reverted back to a National road so TII can do something with the Kennelsfort Road Junction, because the council have no interest in improving things there.

LXFlyer

LXFlyer wrote: »

Given that general traffic would be banned from heading towards Terenure Village along Templeogue Road north of Olney Place under this plan, and no right turns allowed off Templeogue Rd the need for an inbound bus lane on Templeogue Road is somewhat academic I would suggest.

My bad, I thought Terenure Place was one of the sidestreets off Templeogue Road, I had no idea Terenure Road East/West were divided by another streetname.

A plan mooted in 2006 was to make both Templeogue Road & Terenure Road West one way only (with contraflow bus lane on Templeogue Road) from Fortfield Road to Terenure Village. Nothing happened due to local opposition, even though at that time buses were regularly 45 minutes getting from Templeogue Village to Terenure Village.