Fake watch busters

unkel

Cheers for the reply Spocker!

Spocker wrote: »

Something fake usually has some form of a legality breach behind it, and all fakes (not just watches) are treated equally - nuked on sight. Occasionally we make a mistake, and always have the option to put an ad back if we need to.

Understood. That actually happened to one of my ads once. It was an homage, not a fake. When I pointed that out, my ad was duly restored.

Spocker wrote: »

Regarding reports, theres lots (and lots, and lots) of reasons why people report an ad, and those reports end up in a big queue. Someone has to eyeball the reports, and decide if they need action or not - some need action straight away, and some don't. As a volunteer mod I do have access to the report queue, but I leave that to the Adverts staff to deal with, as they see fit. Sometimes that may mean a report is just closed.

So you are saying that sometimes lower priority reports are just closed because of staffing issues?

I can understand that, but it's unprofessional and should be addressed. If there is no budget for paid staff, this can be handled by appointing more volunteer moderators like yourself. You might send this one up the chain.

Spocker

unkel wrote: »

If there is no budget for paid staff, this can be handled by appointing more volunteer moderators like yourself. You might send this one up the chain.

Not my call, but I'll pass it along

banie01

OmegaGene wrote: »

https://www.adverts.ie/other-jewellery-watches/random-watches/22490132?notification=40a833a761c0eed1b199f331227915bc-1608723371

3 "non genuine Tag Heuers" is my new fav fake descriptor!

It's even better than Panascanic :pac:

893bet

OmegaGene wrote: »

https://www.adverts.ie/22627701


This model tag in the new style box is a very popular fake at the moment and holding one in the hand it’s very hard to spot but why they can’t replicate is the new style card with the qr code

Seems odd for a dealer to have a fake but maybe he was duped

There are several “dealers” on adverts that have massive feedback that I would tread carefully with.

Fitz II

Interesting that we are seeing a lot of fake more "affordable" watches lately. And unless you are very familiar with that specific watch its so hard to tell. I think I could spot a Noob Rolex maybe not one of the superclones, but a AAA grade, but when it comes to Tag, or Omega or Seiko I just dont have the knowledge.

Thirdfox

Fitz II wrote: »

Interesting that we are seeing a lot of fake more "affordable" watches lately. And unless you are very familiar with that specific watch its so hard to tell. I think I could spot a Noob Rolex maybe not one of the superclones, but a AAA grade, but when it comes to Tag, or Omega or Seiko I just dont have the knowledge.

To be fair with omega it's easy with their modern watches - co-axial escapements haven't been properly cloned yet.

It's why minute repeaters and microrotors are where it's at :pac: - I'm sure no-one can clone the defy lab movement - but the question is - would anyone want to?

It's why for brands like Panerai you get their CEO putting up a fake on the Instagram page… it's not a particular exotic movement or technically complex one, the finishing can be 80% there and you'd never spot the difference from an Instagram photo.

The Octo finissimo on the other, simply won't be cloned as it isn't profitable to make something 5.25mm high - the tech involved means they'd need to use a quartz movement.

fat bloke

OmegaGene wrote: »

https://www.adverts.ie/22627701


This model tag in the new style box is a very popular fake at the moment and holding one in the hand it’s very hard to spot but what they can’t replicate is the new style card with the qr code

Seems odd for a dealer to have a fake but maybe he was duped

Is that a fake? How do you know or how would you know?

That's exactly the kind of ad I would fall for.

banie01

fat bloke wrote: »

Is that a fake? How do you know or how would you know?

That's exactly the kind of ad I would fall for.

Honestly, I would too and it's precisely why this thread is so very important IMO.

I know Fitz mentioned Noob, and suoerclones and AAA.
I know Noob is a Chinese fakes factory, I know suoerclones are supposed near perfect copies but have no clue what an AAA clone is other than seeing many watches listed as such on AliExpress.

I did recently see a YouTube video of a fake Rolex from a factory called ZZF that honestly on the side by side shots I could not tell apart.

Wibbs

The too loose bracelet links would give me cause for concern, the shabby fit of the bezel insert another and that's in photos, in the hand I'd reckon it would be more obvious.

Fitz II

banie01 wrote: »

Honestly, I would too and it's precisely why this thread is so very important IMO.

I know Fitz mentioned Noob, and suoerclones and AAA.
I know Noob is a Chinese fakes factory, I know suoerclones are supposed near perfect copies but have no clue what an AAA clone is other than seeing many watches listed as such on AliExpress.

I did recently see a YouTube video of a fake Rolex from a factory called ZZF that honestly on the side by side shots I could not tell apart.

AAA, or Noob or another factory are all thee same. These are the Replicas for the decerning faker, the pretender who really wants to try as hard as they can. These are 2-400 euro. Dont clone the movements.

Superclones are 1000-1200 euro, clone the movement and are almost imperceptible, the only reason to buy one of these is to try and con somebody in a sale really, its a lot of money to spend on a fake for any other reason.

furiousox

https://www.adverts.ie/vintage/rolex/22626009

It's 100% authentic lads, what more do you need? :pac:

Lorddrakul

Just as authentic as these...

unkel

i duno pal I bought them of another falla

Lorddrakul

I have serious doubts about this one too...

banie01

Fitz II wrote: »

Superclones are 1000-1200 euro, clone the movement and are almost imperceptible, the only reason to buy one of these is to try and con somebody in a sale really, its a lot of money to spend on a fake for any other reason.

I know I'd brought up the horology house shítshow and the cloned 4130 movement when it kicked off last year.
That said, 1k - 1.2k for a fake!
That's lunacy considering what that kind of money can pick you up as a genuine 2nd hand piece.

IIRC those Daytona were about €600 and we're good enough to deceive a lot of watch enthusiasts who were just happy to score a good grey market deal.
I can't remember how he was rumbled, but it does point imo to there being a serious possibility of a lot more fakes floating around that owners think are genuine.

893bet

Lorddrakul wrote: »

I have serious doubts about this one too...[/URLIMG]

Ermmmmm....it says rettangolo.....which means rectangle......pretty sure that watch is round hahahaha.
Total snide.

unkel

893bet wrote: »

Ermmmmm....it says rettangolo.....which means rectangle......pretty sure that watch is round hahahaha.
Total snide.

Well he obviously got his model name wrong there

I'm not very good at this game and photos even several gradations worse than the ones I take don't help either, but I wouldn't put money on it being a fake. Not the other way around either though.

mailforkev

Lorddrakul wrote: »

I have serious doubts about this one too...

Model name on case back is of a totally different watch and it appears to have been made in “Susse”. Might be near Suisse I guess.

Cienciano

Fitz II wrote: »

AAA, or Noob or another factory are all thee same. These are the Replicas for the decerning faker, the pretender who really wants to try as hard as they can. These are 2-400 euro. Dont clone the movements.

Superclones are 1000-1200 euro, clone the movement and are almost imperceptible, the only reason to buy one of these is to try and con somebody in a sale really, its a lot of money to spend on a fake for any other reason.

Depends on the watch, but the best sub is about €450 delivered to your door and has a very good clone movement. You don't spend €1200. Zzf v3 is about the best sub at the moment. Someone I know has one. Very accurate too, bracelet and clasp is really good. Comparison photos here if you to see macro photos showing the difference between a genuine black sub and 4 fakes which is interesting. Some shots you notice no difference, some the fake actually looks better. But pretty much impossible to notice unless you're walking around with a loupe. Definitely not noticeable from a glance, but in fairness, a €70 dhgate one could pass that test. The tracksuit is the giveaway :pac:

https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/rolex-tudor-replicas/7807136-review-of-zzf-new-sub-116610-ln-and-comparison-vs-gen-arf-noob-and-nail-part-i

Birneybau

furiousox wrote: »

https://www.adverts.ie/vintage/rolex/22626009

It's 100% authentic lads, what more do you need? :pac:

The offers under it are hilarious.

Fitz II

Cienciano wrote: »

Depends on the watch, but the best sub is about €450 delivered to your door and has a very good clone movement. You don't spend €1200. Zzf v3 is about the best sub at the moment. Someone I know has one. Very accurate too, bracelet and clasp is really good. Comparison photos here if you to see macro photos showing the difference between a genuine black sub and 4 fakes which is interesting. Some shots you notice no difference, some the fake actually looks better. But pretty much impossible to notice unless you're walking around with a loupe. Definitely not noticeable from a glance, but in fairness, a €70 dhgate one could pass that test. The tracksuit is the giveaway :pac:

https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/rolex-tudor-replicas/7807136-review-of-zzf-new-sub-116610-ln-and-comparison-vs-gen-arf-noob-and-nail-part-i

I concede to your superior knowledge on this

Wibbs

Cienciano wrote: »

Depends on the watch, but the best sub is about €450 delivered to your door and has a very good clone movement. You don't spend €1200. Zzf v3 is about the best sub at the moment. Someone I know has one. Very accurate too, bracelet and clasp is really good. Comparison photos here if you to see macro photos showing the difference between a genuine black sub and 4 fakes which is interesting. Some shots you notice no difference, some the fake actually looks better. But pretty much impossible to notice unless you're walking around with a loupe. Definitely not noticeable from a glance, but in fairness, a €70 dhgate one could pass that test. The tracksuit is the giveaway :pac:

It's been many years since I looked at a fake forum, but going into your link... Jeeebus. You would really want your wits about you and not just with Rolex either. They've really spread their net wide.

In their ripoff Rolex forum they even have a member who had a fake, liked it and actually decided to go and buy the real deal. Great, only the real deal bought from a longstanding dealer on chrono24 turned out to be a fake. :eek: Ironies all over the feckin place.

Now this is a guy who seems to have been deep into the fake "community" so you'd expect he'd be better at spotting the usual tells. He didn't. The watch was running fast so he brought it to his watchmaker who didn't spot anything amiss with the back off, save for some dust. So he sends it off to Rolex and after a few weeks they send it back and tell him it's a fake(I thought they automatically destroyed fakes?). The dealer, a guy of 30 years experience was mortified and gave him his money back and fair enough. This is where going through a respected dealer and a crowd like chrono24 is extra money well worth spending.

So this fake passed a guy who knows fakes, passed his watchmaker who no doubt by association also knows fakes and the real thing, only for Rolex to confirm it was a fake. That's scary. As the poster noted if he was buying this from someone in a non dealer sale and did due diligence in getting his watchmaker to check it out he'd have been stung.

Though one thing occurs... That time I did look at fake sh1te years back it was in vintage rolex(and others) and some were scarily good, because the fakers were mixing up fake and real parts. Ten years ago it was still pretty easy to buy say a 60's Rolex/Omega/Heuer movement and things like bracelets, crystals, crowns and tubes and hands, then get a snide case and dial, fiddle with them to make them more accurate and aged(and add text like COMEX and the like). One guy had a lamp, UV IIRC, where he'd stick the dial and hands under it for a month and presto! 40 years aged and by god it looked "correct". I saw one Milsub that was astonishingly "good". Even had real Rolex service items to add to its "history". That would fool a lot of people, might even have Rolex scratching their heads. Didn't one or more of John Mayer's vintage Rolex's have questions and Rolex not being sure?

So with this new fake above, maybe it was more a franken like above with genuine bits and bobs and that's why Rolex didn't destroy it and why it fooled the dealer and everyone else?

Cyclingtourist

I'd rather buy an honest homage.

david

Birneybau wrote: »

The offers under it are hilarious.

Yeah sorry about that, couldn’t resist

banie01

Wibbs wrote: »

In their ripoff Rolex forum they even have a member who had a fake, liked it and actually decided to go and buy the real deal. Great, only the real deal bought from a longstanding dealer on chrono24 turned out to be a fake. :eek: Ironies all over the feckin place.

Just read through that thread.
The 2nd or 3rd post is an eye opener IMO.

They have seen this happen on therolexforums and other gen sites and seen issues with rectification.

Reading through the thread, the other thing it highlights tbh, is the scary level of knowledge and acuity on display from the fakers.

I mean it passed an AD and a watch Smith before being flagged as fake at the service centre!
That's both terrifying and quite impressive tbh!

893bet

OmegaGene wrote: »

I’m surprised that tag from yesterday is still live on adverts and with over 800 views someone will be caught 100%

I let him know and he is looking into it.

Didn’t remove though. If I see an offer I will def post on the add.

Cienciano

Wibbs wrote: »

It's been many years since I looked at a fake forum, but going into your link... Jeeebus. You would really want your wits about you and not just with Rolex either. They've really spread their net wide.

In their ripoff Rolex forum they even have a member who had a fake, liked it and actually decided to go and buy the real deal. Great, only the real deal bought from a longstanding dealer on chrono24 turned out to be a fake. :eek: Ironies all over the feckin place.

Now this is a guy who seems to have been deep into the fake "community" so you'd expect he'd be better at spotting the usual tells. He didn't. The watch was running fast so he brought it to his watchmaker who didn't spot anything amiss with the back off, save for some dust. So he sends it off to Rolex and after a few weeks they send it back and tell him it's a fake(I thought they automatically destroyed fakes?). The dealer, a guy of 30 years experience was mortified and gave him his money back and fair enough. This is where going through a respected dealer and a crowd like chrono24 is extra money well worth spending.

So this fake passed a guy who knows fakes, passed his watchmaker who no doubt by association also knows fakes and the real thing, only for Rolex to confirm it was a fake. That's scary. As the poster noted if he was buying this from someone in a non dealer sale and did due diligence in getting his watchmaker to check it out he'd have been stung.

Though one thing occurs... That time I did look at fake sh1te years back it was in vintage rolex(and others) and some were scarily good, because the fakers were mixing up fake and real parts. Ten years ago it was still pretty easy to buy say a 60's Rolex/Omega/Heuer movement and things like bracelets, crystals, crowns and tubes and hands, then get a snide case and dial, fiddle with them to make them more accurate and aged(and add text like COMEX and the like). One guy had a lamp, UV IIRC, where he'd stick the dial and hands under it for a month and presto! 40 years aged and by god it looked "correct". I saw one Milsub that was astonishingly "good". Even had real Rolex service items to add to its "history". That would fool a lot of people, might even have Rolex scratching their heads. Didn't one or more of John Mayer's vintage Rolex's have questions and Rolex not being sure?

So with this new fake above, maybe it was more a franken like above with genuine bits and bobs and that's why Rolex didn't destroy it and why it fooled the dealer and everyone else?

There's probably a fair few guys going around with fakes that will never know until they get it serviced. With online selling so easy, people using bitcoin or gift options on paypal you can see why. How dangerous is robbing a bank? Just buy a fake rolex and sell it as gen, don't even need to leave your house.

Funnily enough, there's fake fakes too! Sites set up exactly like the proper fake sites that will send you a cheap fake (€70 job rather than the €450 above). If you google the trusted dealer you'll get a fake site. You need the direct link from RWI to get the real site. Fake sites are clones of the real site!

Thirdfox

Wibbs wrote: »

So with this new fake above, maybe it was more a franken like above with genuine bits and bobs and that's why Rolex didn't destroy it and why it fooled the dealer and everyone else?

I'd suspect it's just the Chinese factories getting really good at making these.

They even get the weights right now - it's always useful to monitor what watches are being faked and know which brands - Rolex, 3 hander Pateks, Panerai, Tudor etc. that are being targetted so you can have your wits about you when buying used.

In fact - for some models/brands - I can understand why people would prefer to buy from an AD and be done with it.

When we went to Turkey some people (don't know if the original was made in China or Turkey itself which makes plenty of leather goods) were offering A, AA, AAA handbags and for a non-expert like myself I'd never tell the difference between a real Hermes 10-20,000 bag or a AAA one at 1-2000. Like someone mentioned about - it'd be easily to spot from the fact that the person isn't also wearing a gold Rolex and driving an S-class...

But hey - the Chinese even manage to fake cars reasonably well (well in Steinhart's words - homaging them :pac:)
https://www.google.com/search?q=geely+ge&client=firefox-b-d&sxsrf=ALeKk02A1kj8rpUlFstbzR-qyB5m_j3F4A:1610625697312&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi6nreksJvuAhVTURUIHT8NCtQQ_AUoAXoECCAQAw&biw=2560&bih=1327&dpr=1.5#imgrc=CFXSbskaaZ57vM

Geely GE bears more than a passing resemblance to a Rolls Phantom - they're the ultimate owners of Volvo and Lotus btw

Wibbs

banie01 wrote: »

I mean it passed an AD and a watch Smith before being flagged as fake at the service centre!
That's both terrifying and quite impressive tbh!

+1 And for me it's of wider concern but if anything less so with Rolex fakes. I mean in the sense that "fake Rolex" is known even among civilians and with Rolex more people are concerned about and gaining more knowledge of fakes and when looking to buy genuine are more likely to go to authorised dealers because of the risks involved. It's with other brands like Omega, TAG, Seiko, even Patek and the like where people are likely to be less wary, less aware and more likely to fall for fakes being passed off as real, with real prices attached.

Frankens too. Where say you take a less sought after pale dial Nautilus and slap in a fake blue dial, fake up an extract from the archives and add thousands to the price. That fake vintage crowd from years back were doing that sorta thing with Omegas and Rolex and others. The skill involved was both very impressive and very scary. There were a rake of military issued Omega Seamaster 300's and Rolex Milsubs of various "quality". Issued Seamaster 300's have long been known for requiring care among the dyed in the wool mil collectors, but a few of them have been caught out. Hell a few big ticket auction houses have listed frankens and fakes as real(QV the recent vintage Seiko auction) and quite the number weren't pulled. When you have outlets like hodinkee regularly not even showing movement pictures and selling to a fresh batch of newbies relying on dealers and "experts" who are also dealers that's not good.

Cienciano

Thirdfox wrote: »

I'd suspect it's just the Chinese factories getting really good at making these.

They even get the weights right now - it's always useful to monitor what watches are being faked and know which brands - Rolex, 3 hander Pateks, Panerai, Tudor etc. that are being targetted so you can have your wits about you when buying used.

In fact - for some models/brands - I can understand why people would prefer to buy from an AD and be done with it.

When we went to Turkey some people (don't know if the original was made in China or Turkey itself which makes plenty of leather goods) were offering A, AA, AAA handbags and for a non-expert like myself I'd never tell the difference between a real Hermes 10-20,000 bag or a AAA one at 1-2000. Like someone mentioned about - it'd be easily to spot from the fact that the person isn't also wearing a gold Rolex and driving an S-class...

But hey - the Chinese even manage to fake cars reasonably well (well in Steinhart's words - homaging them :pac:)
https://www.google.com/search?q=geely+ge&client=firefox-b-d&sxsrf=ALeKk02A1kj8rpUlFstbzR-qyB5m_j3F4A:1610625697312&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi6nreksJvuAhVTURUIHT8NCtQQ_AUoAXoECCAQAw&biw=2560&bih=1327&dpr=1.5#imgrc=CFXSbskaaZ57vM

Geely GE bears more than a passing resemblance to a Rolls Phantom - they're the ultimate owners of Volvo and Lotus btw

You know you've made it when you see fake solas's on wish :pac: