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So does hell exist or what

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    #92
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    redrums wrote: »
    To be Honest I think its more believable that Jesus was an alien , Than Heaven and hell actual exist .
    theres a theory that he used psychedelics.

    but according to the bible isnt he technically an alien anyway?


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    #93
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    Bob_Marley wrote: »
    Yes, but it would have to be an absolutely genuine change of heart, and I don't think God would be fooled by anything else.

    As for not being fair, if God didn't give everyone every last possible chance, you'd probably also be the first to claim that wasn't fair either. So which is it ?

    so you're not gonna address your own use of out of context misquotes, no?

    wouldnt the fear of death/going to hell be enough motivation for genuine regret of ones past sins?


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    #94
    Bob_Marley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Bob_Marley


    iamtony wrote: »
    Your mad my friend. God came with a message of love through jesus if that's true. If he loves each and every one of his children then he would not send any of them to hell. Nobody has to worship him or anything else like it. I'm sorry hit its all mumbo jumbo. I'm not going to try convince you all night because no matter what I say your going to ignore but hopefully more rational human being who are looking for answers stumble upon this thread. Good night and God Bless.

    I've already told you, God sends no one to hell, they choose it. I've spoken to many anti-theists (as opposed to atheists) who have been happy to boast that if God exists they are going to spit in his face and demand they don't go to heaven as they could not stand him. I'm perfectly open to being convinced Christianity and Theism is false, I'll follow the truth to the end of time wherever it leads, but all I've seen so far are false and ignorant claims about Christians, Christianity, and what they believe.


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    #95
    Bob_Marley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Bob_Marley


    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    Pslam 14.1
    "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good."

    ??

    Exactly, anyone can selectively and singularly quote scripture out of context to say anything they wish. That was the point. There's over three quarters of a million words in the books that make up the bible library.

    Now, I'll ask you for the third time, what Church teaches what you claim Christianity teaches about who goes to hell, and support it with an authentic original link to their teaching.


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    #96
    iamtony
    Registered Users Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭iamtony


    Faith Mushy Smallpox wrote: »
    Firstly, He's not excluding people from heaven for not worshipping Him. People exclude themselves by not repenting and believing in the One who died to save them. Hell was created for Satan and his angels, not for mankind. But our rebellion against God aligns us with Satan's rebellion with the same fate..

    All true Christians are converts. Jesus referred to it as being Born Again. Transferring from darkness to light, from one kingdom to another.
    I was part of a religion. I believed in Christ and was converted to Him. It literally means a change of mind.
    OK so your agreeing churches are rediculous with your first point. No point in them..
    Second point. In excluding myself from the afterlife my creator made for me with are


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    #97
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    Bob_Marley wrote: »
    Exactly, anyone can selectively and singularly quote scripture out to say anything they wish. There's over three quarters of a million words in the books that make up the bible library.

    Now, I'll ask you for the third time, what Church teaches what you claim Christianity teaches about who goes to hell, and support it with an authentic original link to their teaching.

    Im gonna try not to be rude here. I dont believe your initial response that I quoted was intended to prove the point you just attempted to make here. you basically moved the goalposts


    I dont appreciate this: "Now, I'll ask you for the third time,"
    I already answered the question but your are attempting to make it appear as if I have dodged your question multiple times. I stand by my first reply.

    perhaps Im not seeing something and it will become clearer later. or perhaps that is the case for you. I am prepared for either, are you?


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    #98
    Bob_Marley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Bob_Marley


    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    Im gonna try not to be rude here. I dont believe your initial response that I quoted was intended to prove the point you just attempted to make here. you basically moved the goalposts


    I dont appreciate this: "Now, I'll ask you for the third time,"
    I already answered the question but your are attempting to make it appear as if I have dodged your question multiple times. I stand by my first reply.

    perhaps Im not seeing something and it will become clearer later. or perhaps that is the case for you. I am prepared for either, are you?

    I'll ask it again, What Christian church teaches that "really really good people" who genuinely thought God did not exist are kept out of heaven ?


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    #99
    iamtony
    Registered Users Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭iamtony


    iamtony wrote: »
    OK so your agreeing churches are rediculous with your first point. No point in them..
    Second point. In excluding myself from the afterlife my creator made for me with are

    Sorry my chinese food arrived whilst I was typing and I dont even know what I was getting at in this post. I've had a few beers also.
    So in conclusion I'm indulging in meat and alcohol on good Friday so should I go to hell even if I gave money to the homeless man outside the Aib while I put money in to cover my concern worldwide direct debit or should we just abolish the Catholic Church and all its problems and we can all believe whatever the hell(excuse the pun) we choose.


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    #100
    Bob_Marley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Bob_Marley


    iamtony wrote: »
    Sorry my chinese food arrived whilst I was typing and I dont even know what I was getting at in this post. I've had a few beers also.
    So in conclusion I'm indulging in meat and alcohol on good Friday so should I go to hell even if I gave money to the homeless man outside the Aib while I put money in to cover my concern worldwide direct debit or should we just abolish the Catholic Church and all its problems and we can all believe whatever the hell(excuse the pun) we choose.

    But you already believe whatever you choose, we all do.


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    #101
    iamtony
    Registered Users Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭iamtony


    Bob_Marley wrote: »
    I'll ask it again, What Christian church teaches that "really really good people" who genuinely thought God did not exist are kept out of heaven ?

    Sorry to butt in but for a Christian church to teach you something you actually have to be a member in the first place which usually requires a paid membership starting at christenings so maybe he doesn't know, or care.
    We all know what your asking is crap and the church requires membership to get buried on sacred ground and admittance to heaven. Do I have proof from the bible about what I'm saying, no, will I get it? No. But I know the general story goes very much like I've set it out.


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    #102
    iamtony
    Registered Users Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭iamtony


    Bob_Marley wrote: »
    But you already believe whatever you choose, we all do.

    Yes true but my beliefs are sane. You need to bang your head off a wall a few times. Sorry but it's true. Your believing in nonsense rubbish made up to creat wealth for the Vatican and thats the end of it. Sorry mod if I'm breaking the rules but I just can't get my head around people who blindly believe such nonsense over other nonsense they can say is wrong from the other side of the world. God wouldn't require special behaviour to get into heaven simple as that. Goodnight folks.


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    #103
    Bob_Marley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Bob_Marley


    iamtony wrote: »
    Sorry to butt in but for a Christian church to teach you something you actually have to be a member in the first place which usually requires a paid membership starting at christenings so maybe he doesn't know, or care.
    We all know what your asking is crap and the church requires membership to get buried on sacred ground and admittance to heaven. Do I have proof from the bible about what I'm saying, no, will I get it? No. But I know the general story goes very much like I've set it out.

    You're the one's (the really really good human being) making false claims about Christians, Christianity, and what Christian believe, and yet the doctrines of all mainstream Christian Churches are fully available online.


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    #104
    Bob_Marley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Bob_Marley


    iamtony wrote: »
    Yes true but my beliefs are sane. You need to bang your head off a wall a few times. Sorry but it's true. Your believing in nonsense rubbish made up to creat wealth for the Vatican and thats the end of it. Sorry mod if I'm breaking the rules but I just can't get my head around people who blindly believe such nonsense over other nonsense they can say is wrong from the other side of the world. God wouldn't require special behaviour to get into heaven simple as that. Goodnight folks.

    Maybe instead of attacking posters, calling them names and making false accusations about them, you could try actually talking about the points instead ?


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    #105
    iamtony
    Registered Users Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭iamtony


    Bob_Marley wrote: »
    Maybe instead of attacking posters, calling them names and making false accusations about them, you could try actually talking about the points instead ?

    The points are invalid and a book written 2000 years ago cannot back up your claims. In fact as has been shown its more likely to be used against you. Peace to you my friend, I'm sorry I got sucked in here in the first place but I'm out.


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    #106
    Bob_Marley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Bob_Marley


    iamtony wrote: »
    The points are invalid and a book written 2000 years ago cannot back up your claims. In fact as has been shown its more likely to be used against you. Peace to you my friend, I'm sorry I got sucked in here in the first place but I'm out.

    Whenever you present an accurate claim about Christianity, we'll be quite happy to deal with it.


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    #107
    iamtony
    Registered Users Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭iamtony


    Bob_Marley wrote: »
    Whenever you present an accurate claim about Christianity, we'll be quite happy to deal with it.

    OK you win. I give up.


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    #108
    Bob_Marley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Bob_Marley


    iamtony wrote: »
    OK you win. I give up.

    I'm not trying to win anything.


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    #109
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    redrums wrote: »
    To be Honest I think its more believable that Jesus was an alien , Than Heaven and hell actual exist .

    Perhaps both, which could explain all the voices/beams of light from the sky.

    Much of the paintings date from the renaissance, but plenty of examples of much earlier cave art featuring space folks are available.

    snXg3L7.png


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    #110
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,726 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    iamtony wrote: »
    Yes true but my beliefs are sane. You need to bang your head off a wall a few times. Sorry but it's true. Your believing in nonsense rubbish made up to creat wealth for the Vatican and thats the end of it. Sorry mod if I'm breaking the rules but I just can't get my head around people who blindly believe such nonsense over other nonsense they can say is wrong from the other side of the world. God wouldn't require special behaviour to get into heaven simple as that. Goodnight folks.

    MOD NOTE

    Infracted for ignoring previous warning about referring to beliefs as 'nonsense'.

    Please raise your posting standard to avoid further moderation.

    Thanks for your attention.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #111
    iamtony
    Registered Users Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭iamtony


    Delirium wrote: »
    MOD NOTE

    Infracted for ignoring previous warning about referring to beliefs as 'nonsense'.

    Please raise your posting standard to avoid further moderation.

    Thanks for your attention.

    Apologies folks. A little too much sauce last night. I normally respect other people's beliefs and live and let live.


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    #112
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    Bob_Marley wrote: »
    I'll ask it again, What Christian church teaches that "really really good people" who genuinely thought God did not exist are kept out of heaven ?

    That's a very hostile way to began your response. You accused me of using words out of context, when in fact I used the full quote rather than taking one sentence. You are the one who took one sentence from a longer quote, and the first part that you left out gave it a completely different meaning

    Are you consciously choosing to be intellectually dishonest? what is your interpretation of the Christian Doctrine I provided? What is the correct context for its use?


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    #113
    pauldla
    Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    That's a very hostile way to began your response. You accused me of using words out of context, when in fact I used the full quote rather than taking one sentence. You are the one who took one sentence from a longer quote, and the first part that you left out gave it a completely different meaning

    Are you consciously choosing to be intellectually dishonest? what is your interpretation of the Christian Doctrine I provided? What is the correct context for its use?

    Indeed, if I may interject, it would be much more productive for the poster in question to say why they consider that quote to be given out of context. John Chapter 3 is considered a neat summary of core Christian beliefs as far as I know (Christ teaching Nicodemus, iirc).


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    #114
    Bob_Marley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Bob_Marley


    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    That's a very hostile way to began your response. You accused me of using words out of context, when in fact I used the full quote rather than taking one sentence. You are the one who took one sentence from a longer quote, and the first part that you left out gave it a completely different meaning

    Are you consciously choosing to be intellectually dishonest? what is your interpretation of the Christian Doctrine I provided? What is the correct context for its use?

    You made the claim about Christianity and what Christians believe, you are the one making the claims about Christians and what they believe, I'm asking you to back it up by showing any mainstream Christian denomination believes what you claim Christians actually believe.

    The doctrines of all the mainstream Christian denominations are all available on line. You haven't provided a single Christian doctrine about what Christians actually believe, instead you lifted a one line quote out of context (which anyone can do to quote anything) and then claimed that's Christian doctrine.


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    #115
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    Bob_Marley wrote: »
    You made the claim about Christianity and what Christians believe, you are the one making the claims about Christians and what they believe, I'm asking you to back it up by showing any mainstream Christian denomination believes what you claim Christians actually believe.

    Their doctrines are all available on line. You haven't provided a single Christian doctrine about what Christians actually believe, instead you lifted a one line quote out of context (which anyone can do to quote anything) and then claimed that's Christian doctrine.

    what is the correct context? How do I learn if you dont tell me the reason why that text would be included in the bible, does it mean something completely different?

    what is your motivation here?


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    #116
    Bob_Marley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Bob_Marley


    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    what is the correct context? How do I learn if you dont tell me the reason why that text would be included in the bible, does it mean something completely different?

    what is your motivation here?

    I already explained, the bible contains over 750,000 words, taking a line out of context and then claiming that is complete Christian doctrine on a subject and what Christians entirely believe and understand about a subject, as you did, isn't accurate.

    My motivation was simply asking you to back up your claims that you made about Christianity, and your claims that you made about Christians and what Christians believe.

    What is your motivation for making inaccurate claims about Christians, Christianity, and what Christians believe ?


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    #117
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    Bob_Marley wrote: »
    I already explained, the bible contains over 750,000 words, taking a line out of context and then claiming that is complete Christian doctrine on a subject and what Christians believe, as you did, isn't accurate.

    My motivation was simply asking you to back up your claims that you made about Christianity, and your claims that you made about Christians and what Christians believe.

    What is your motivation for making such claims about Christians, Christianity, and what Christians believe ?

    Instead of sharing knowledge and correcting me, you just want to win an argument. That sounds very egotistical and not very Christian

    I provided evidence that supports my understanding of Christian beliefs, my motivation is based on acquiring knowledge, you havent been very helpful in that regard. Are you not interested in teaching others about your faith?

    what does this mean?

    "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son" (John 3:17-18)


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    #118
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    Instead of sharing knowledge and correcting me, you just want to win an argument. That sounds very egotistical and not very Christian

    I provided evidence that supports my understanding of Christian beliefs, my motivation is based on acquiring knowledge, you havent been very helpful in that regard. Are you not interested in teaching others about your faith?

    what does this mean?

    "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son" (John 3:17-18)

    If you just want knowledge, try any "theological" book. It will suffice.


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    #119
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    Faith Mushy Smallpox wrote: »
    If you just want knowledge, try any "theological" book. It will suffice.
    is this not a forum for discussion on peoples beliefs? I would like to know what people believe


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    #120
    Bob_Marley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Bob_Marley


    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    Instead of sharing knowledge and correcting me, you just want to win an argument. That sounds very egotistical and not very Christian

    Rather than attempting ad homienm argument about me instead of the subject, perhaps you could deal with the actual points ?
    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    I provided evidence that supports my understanding of Christian beliefs, my motivation is based on acquiring knowledge, you havent been very helpful in that regard. Are you not interested in teaching others about your faith?

    But rather than asking Christians about Christians and what they actually believe, you instead were making false claims about Christianity and what Christians believe, so when you do, others are perfectly entitled to address your false claims, even if you don't like anyone doing so. Perhaps you've never had your claims about Christianity and Christians challenged before ? If you are going to make such claims on a Christianity forum, it is reasonable to expect they will be challenged. I can assure you, Christians are quite used to false claims being made about them on this forum.
    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    what does this mean?

    "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son" (John 3:17-18)

    If you were standing in front of Jesus would you believe in him or not ?

    Would you want to believe him, and why ?


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    #121
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    Bob_Marley wrote: »


    If you were standing in front of Jesus would you believe in him or not ?

    are we seeing the same words??


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