Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

FrancieBrady

jm08 wrote: »

Tiger lost sponsorship of Accenture, AT&T, Gatorate, General Motors. Gillette and Tag Heuer dropped advertising campaigns that featured him. Golf Digest dropped his column.

Nike didn't drop him, but they reduced his sponsorship deal.

The companies don't care what rugby fans think. They are concerned what their existing and potential customers think. From the poll here, 20% don't agree with the verdict (and another 16% are not sure). No company can afford to annoy 36% of their customer base. Its not as if Ulster is pulling up trees performance wise either.

A new season and the lads keep their heads down, there will only be people who would probably burn the sponsors head offices to the ground if they had a chance, interested enough to protest.

Fann Linn

jm08 wrote: »

Well, have you every heard the phrase, lie with dogs you'll pick up fleas.

You're getting better. Guilt now by association.

jm08

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well, Yes I would.
I don't think all that many would be greatly insulted by it. Many words lose their venom over the years. 'Slut' would be one of them imo. You hear it often enough now, used by both sexes.

In your opinion! Maybe you need to do a few classes on respect Francie!

FrancieBrady

jm08 wrote: »

In your opinion! Maybe you need to do a few classes on respect Francie!

I don't think so.
I think the reaction to the word is a wholly conservative Roman Catholic one.
Pinterest would be a fair indicator of memes and pics that young people feel comfortable sharing. Take a look at this one page of thousands.
https://www.pinterest.ie/aprilgleaton/whore-and-slut-quotes/?lp=true

As you can see, it is a very common word and even a humourous insult at times.

You are just old like me and reacting the same as Socrates did centuries ago. Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be.

jm08

Fann Linn wrote: »

You're getting better. Guilt now by association.

There is such a thing. Here are a few examples.

http://examples.yourdictionary.com/examples-of-guilt-by-association.html

Fann Linn

jm08 wrote: »

There is such a thing. Here are a few examples.

http://examples.yourdictionary.com/examples-of-guilt-by-association.html

I know there is, and you're applying it.

goz83

tigger123 wrote: »

I get that. The point I'm making is that, on balance, what sponsor would potentially damage their brand by having it associated with Paddy Jackson?

There's other teams, other sports, and other sponsorships available.

Any sponsor who reckons there is money to be made. There are plenty who respect the court ruling.....and at the risk of sounding sexist, more men than women follow rugby.

Disclosure....I’m not a rugby fan and never heard of PJ before the news reports.

Notorious wrote: »

Well the woman reported that she went back with one man, so I think I’ll take her word. Being reported online that one of the six has come clean and said she didn’t want it. Supposedly police also have a phone with a recording.

I think it’s a laughable defence in a rape case. You’re seem to have an agenda on this one, so I’m going to leave it there.

Take one word over six based on.....gender? Class.

Agenda you say? I know nothing about the case you’re talking about, but I am not one to jump to conclusions. First I. Ecame aware of it was on this thread and I haven’t seen it mentioned on the news. Do you not think that people deserve to be treated fairly and have justice served. Taking one persons word based on their gender suggests you don’t.

If the woman is telling the truth, then these men deserve to be locked away for a long time. But what if she isn’t? Their lives would be ruined anyway.

jm08

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't think so.
I think the reaction to the word is a wholly conservative Roman Catholic one.
Pinterest would be a fair indicator of memes and pics that young people feel comfortable sharing. Take a look at this one page of thousands.
https://www.pinterest.ie/aprilgleaton/whore-and-slut-quotes/?lp=true

As you can see, it is a very common word and even a humourous insult at times.

You are just old like me and reacting the same as Socrates did centuries ago. Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be.

I can't see the humour in a card that reads ''I'm not calling her a slut, but I just saw her vagina on Dirty Jobs.''

Who would you send such a card to?

jm08

Fann Linn wrote: »

I know there is, and you're applying it.

And?

FrancieBrady

jm08 wrote: »

I can't see the humour in a card that reads ''I'm not calling her a slut, but I just saw her vagina on Dirty Jobs.''

Who would you send such a card to?

It is not my thing either.
I am just proving to you that your opinion is not the same as these lads and even the girls who hear it. As we seen the complainant was comfortable using it.

All of them were applying it to people, of whom they had no idea what their sexual histories were.

I think, to be honest, that is sinking in with people. You can even see how this thread has calmed down.

Fann Linn

jm08 wrote: »

I can't see the humour in a card that reads ''I'm not calling her a slut, but I just saw her vagina on Dirty Jobs.''

Who would you send such a card to?

These are so old. If that is all that's upsetting people I don't think Jackson has anything to worry about.

Here's some more from the 80s prior to internet and Whats app.

'She's had more pricks than a second hand dart board'.
'She was so loose it was like throwing a sausage up O'Connel street'.

jm08

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It is not my thing either.
I am just proving to you that your opinion is not the same as these lads and even the girls who hear it. As we seen the complainant was comfortable using it.

All of them were applying it to people, of whom they had no idea what their sexual histories were.

I think, to be honest, that is sinking in with people. You can even see how this thread has calmed down.

And my opinion is that people who know better need to stand up and say that it isn't right to disrespect people like this.

jm08

Fann Linn wrote: »

These are so old. If that is all that's upsetting people I don't think Jackson has anything to worry about.

Here's some more from the 80s prior to internet and Whats app.

'She's had more pricks than a second hand dart board'.
'She was so loose it was like throwing a sausage up O'Connel street'.

You think that was acceptable humour back in the 80s. Debasing other human isn't good humour.

FrancieBrady

jm08 wrote: »

You think that was acceptable humour back in the 80s. Debasing other human isn't good humour.

how is it debasing, when both sexes are comfortable doing it? It isn't up to you and me.

Fann Linn

jm08 wrote: »

You think that was acceptable humour back in the 80s. Debasing other human isn't good humour.

Yes, humanity has suffered.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

... As we seen the complainant was comfortable using it.

All of them were applying it to people, of whom they had no idea what their sexual histories were.

I think, to be honest, that is sinking in with people. You can even see how this thread has calmed down.

The complainant wasn't using it as a term of endearment.... I reckon she thought the other girls were behaving like tramps.

joe40

Just out of curiosity, are there any posters here who believes the woman in this case deliberately and consciously lied throughout, with the sole purpose of getting young men sent to jail for a very long time because she didn't like them

Obviously just an opinion one may have.

If that were true she would have to be a sociopathic monster.

jm08

FrancieBrady wrote: »

how is it debasing, when both sexes are comfortable doing it? It isn't up to you and me.

In your opinion. It is up to you and me to set a decent moral code of respect.

Fann Linn

jm08 wrote: »

In your opinion. It is up to you and me to set a decent moral code of respect.

And yet you judge others by the company they keep. Nice morals.

FrancieBrady

jm08 wrote: »

In your opinion. It is up to you and me to set a decent moral code of respect.

I am fully confident this generation will go on and co-join in respectful union and breed the next generation. That is the way of the world.

What is a decent code of respect?

Standing over 'cleansing' women before your God after giving birth?

Forcing them to stay in the home after marriage?

Turning a blind eye to abuse and battery?

Locking them in homes and taking their children off them?


What is this decent code of respect you talk off and WHEN has it ever existed?

jm08

Fann Linn wrote: »

And yet you judge others by the company they keep. Nice morals.

I don't see a contradiction. PJ & SO wouldn't have hung out in that WhatsApp group if they didn't enjoy the banter. I bet Andrew Trimble isn't and would not want to be in that Whatsapp group!

jm08

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I am fully confident this generation will go on and co-join in respectful union and breed the next generation. That is the way of the world.

What is a decent code of respect?
Standing over 'cleansing' women before your God after giving birth?
Forcing them to stay in the home after marriage?
Turning a blind eye to abuse and battery?
Locking them in homes and taking their children off them?

What is this decent code of respect you talk off and WHEN has it ever existed?

A simple definition would be 'Treat everyone like you would like to be treated yourself.'

I doubt if there are any young women who want to be referred to as sluts, though I'm sure there are plenty of young men would love to be referred to as horndogs. I suppose to make the effort to recognise that everyone isn't the same as well.

JupiterKid

In my early 20s I served on a jury for a (much shorter) rape trial in which the conviction fell apart because the alleged victim’s story changed upon cross examination and was challenged by others at the nightclub before the alleged rape took place and we simply had too much reasonable doubt to secure a conviction against the defendant. Ironically out of the seven women and five men jurors, it was the women who were quicker to doubt the alleged victim’s version of events.

This whole disgusting, sordid Belfast rape trial shows how a sense of a life of total privilege, self entitlement, “hero” worship among certain impressionable women mixed with low self-esteem, young men who think they they can do and get away with anything and add in a copious mix of a lot of alcohol and More than a few toots of cocaine can lead to such an event.

IT writer Richie Sadlier has put in much better terms just why the above culture badly needs to change if we are not to have repeat upon repeat of this trial.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/richie-sadlier-belfast-trial-shows-the-problems-in-male-sport-1.3453075


For the record, I believe Jackson and Olding should never play professional rugby anywhere ever again. They have brought the game into utter disrepute. I played schools rugby for a while and you could see this culture way back then, nigh on 30 years ago.

FrancieBrady

jm08 wrote: »

A simple definition would be 'Treat everyone like you would like to be treated yourself.'

I doubt if there are any young women who want to be referred to as sluts, though I'm sure there are plenty of young men would love to be referred to as horndogs. I suppose to make the effort to recognise that everyone isn't the same as well.

There you go again, making assumptions.

I have shown you how common the use of the word and other similar words are. They are used by both sexes now.

'Bitch' was a verboten word when i was growing up, YOU DID NOT USE IT around my parents without retribution. It is now common parlance with women self referencing themselves as 'bitches'.

It is called evolution, words come and go despite the cries of offence.

BBDBB

BBDBB wrote: »

someone like you would say that though!

see what I did there :pac::D

It's hard for me to get to your level- I've had to rent a parachute

FrancieBrady

JupiterKid wrote: »

In my early 20s I served on a jury for a (much shorter) rape trial in which the conviction fell apart because the alleged victim’s story changed upon cross examination and was challenged by others at the nightclub before the alleged rape took place and we simply had too much reasonable doubt to secure a conviction against the defendant. Ironically out of the seven women and five men jurors, it was the women who were quicker to doubt the alleged victim’s version of events.

This whole disgusting, sordid Belfast rape trial shows how a sense of a life of total privilege, self entitlement, “hero” worship among certain impressionable women mixed with low self-esteem, young men who think they they can do and get away with anything and add in a copious mix of a lot of alcohol and More than a few toots of cocaine can lead to such an event.

IT writer Richie Sadlier has put in much better terms just why the above culture badly needs to change if we are not to have repeat upon repeat of this trial.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/richie-sadlier-belfast-trial-shows-the-problems-in-male-sport-1.3453075


For the record, I believe Jackson and Olding should never play professional rugby anywhere ever again. They have brought the game into utter disrepute. I played schools rugby for a while and you could see this culture way back then, nigh on 30 years ago.

Seriously, what needs to stop is these 'go to' phrases like 'brought the game into disrepute'

It is utter nonsense. Hundreds of thousands of people have enjoyed thousands of minutes of rugby at all levels since these guys were charged and will continue to do so.

Like everything, lessons need to be learned and put in place, but 'bringing the game into disrepute' is such a meaningless load of rubbish really.

BBDBB

Deleted User wrote: »

It's hard for me to get to your level- I've had to rent a parachute

You’d make a fair old dent regardless

BBDBB

BBDBB wrote: »

You’d make a fair old dent regardless

Are you calling me fat?:eek:

BBDBB

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you calling me fat?:eek:

Let me check with my WhatsApp group for the politically sensitive terminology

Appledreams15

jm08 wrote: »

Hi Appledreams,

When you read the comments about you here, you will know you have made the right decision to get out.

To the rest of you - you should be ashamed of yourselves for attacking her and your bullying attitude.

Thanks so much! I appreciate it.