Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

jm08

Bambi wrote: »

And?

The feminist mob have got at the Icelandic Parliament.

facehugger99

Bambi wrote: »

What you're seen there is the spin off of a strand of feminist theory that all sex is inherently rape.

Make sure you check under your bed before you go to sleep tonight - could be a feminist hiding under there.

the_pen_turner

sightband wrote: »

Do they really though? That’s a seriously diverse set of friends your daughters have. By the law of averages I’d say you were talking through your hoop.

i wouldnt be so sure.
when i was in school 15 years ago we had 2 indian kids in our year and 2 middle easter kids a few years below us. they were probably muslim

one kids father was gay and came out. (actually caught out in a funny story) the kid got bullied and moved to a diferent school the next year


thats 15 years ago or more. we have only gotten more diverse and open about sexuality now.

sporina

if they guys had committed the crime, would they really have been messaging one another about the events the following days? I doubt it. "love belfast sluts" etc.. just a thought ...

foxyladyxx

sporina wrote: »

if they guys had committed the crime, would they really have been messaging one another about the events the following days? I doubt it. "love belfast sluts" etc.. just a thought ...

That is a good point. .If there had been any doubt about their behaviour that night they would have been engaged in damage limitation the morning after?

mfceiling

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i wouldnt be so sure.
when i was in school 15 years ago we had 2 indian kids in our year and 2 middle easter kids a few years below us. they were probably muslim

one kids father was gay and came out. (actually caught out in a funny story) the kid got bullied and moved to a diferent school the next year


thats 15 years ago or more. we have only gotten more diverse and open about sexuality now.

I'd say he's a bogger with friends and family within the one bloodline.
There's a huge diversity in ireland now.

Dyr

facehugger99 wrote: »

Make sure you check under your bed before you go to sleep tonight - could be a feminist hiding under there.

I'm not sure a third wave feminist would fit under the bed

the_pen_turner

mfceiling wrote: »

I'd say he's a bogger with friends and family within the one bloodline.
There's a huge diversity in ireland now.

im a bogger and proud.

i dont really have any first hand experience with school kids and what friends they have. i must ask some

i often see kids walking around town with their multicultural friends.

jm08

foxyladyxx wrote: »

That is a good point. .If there had been any doubt about their behaviour that night they would have been engaged in damage limitation the morning after?

I don't think it was in dispute that the lads thought that the complainant had given consent.

Harrison didn't tell them about his conversations with the complainant either. Some messages were deleted as well (which were not retrieved).

jm08

Bambi wrote: »

I'm not sure a third wave feminist would fit under the bed

What about fourth wave?

foxyladyxx

jm08 wrote: »

I don't think it was in dispute that the lads thought that the complainant had given consent.

Harrison didn't tell them about his conversations with the complainant either. Some messages were deleted as well (which were not retrieved).

There was a doubt in my mind.

ArthurDayne

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm still waiting for all these people to decide how to prove consent was given. It still comes down to he said/she said. Until there is an accepted method in place to show consent is there and not withdrawn, the system is open to be abused. All these legal changes just encourage more abuse to occur.

Do you mean having in a place a legally-defined way of giving consent ?

foxyladyxx

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Do you mean having in a place a legally-defined way of giving consent ?

Yes a legal consent form for both parties :P

ArthurDayne

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Do you mean having in a place a legally-defined way of giving consent ?

Yup. A definitive manner in which consent can be shown in a court of law to avoid false claims or the claims of innocence by a rapist. Simply relying on verbal agreements isn't working.

jackboy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yup. A definitive manner in which consent can be shown in a court of law to avoid false claims or the claims of innocence by a rapist. Simply relying on verbal agreements isn't working.

There is no way to prove consent . It's not possible. It will always be up to the jury to give their best guess.

joe40

A good place would for both parties to mention contraception beforehand, especially in the case of first night together.
I know there is a good bit of education out there for this, but at least a frank discussion about using a condom would show willing consent.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Greysquirel09 wrote: »

Don't forget she was invited to join in on this rape. For me that was the main reason behind the aquittal. Doesn't seem like something one would say while engaging in such a dreadful act.

Mod note: Greysquirel09, the term is alleged rape as the accusation wasn't proven.

Do not post in this thread again.

Buford T. Justice

Greysquirel09

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Mod note: Greysquirel09, the term is alleged rape as the accusation wasn't proven.

Do not post in this thread again.

Buford T. Justice

I was being sarcastic 😩

tretorn

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Unless you have evidence to support your claim, then you shouldn't expect anyone to take your claim seriously. This case hasn't made anyone believe anything contrary to what they believed already, so as a reason why it should never have been brought, your claim just doesn't stand up under any examination.





Where are you getting your information? According to a spokesperson for the PPS, they didn't receive any recommendation along those lines from the PSNI? They wouldn't anyway because the only role of the PSNI is to investigate cases and present their findings to the PPS -

A PPS spokesperson said: “The evidence received in this case was subjected to a very thorough and careful examination by a team of experienced lawyers, including Senior Counsel, before it was concluded that the Test for Prosecution was met, in line with our Code for Prosecutors.

“This meant that there was both sufficient evidence to provide a reasonable prospect of conviction and it was in the public interest to prosecute.

“Any claims that an initial decision was made not to prosecute or that advices were received that the Test for Prosecution was not met, are wholly inaccurate. There was only ever one decision taken in relation to these defendants – and that was a decision to prosecute.
“This case was properly brought before the Courts and overcame a number of legal challenges. It was ultimately right that the matter was placed before a jury to make their determination.”

Source: BelfastLive.co.uk


That's even before we get to the fact you claim the PSNI said there wasn't enough evidence (I'm guessing you mean to secure a conviction?), and then go on to point out that there was no evidence to back up the woman's claims? You're contradicting your own claims that you claim the PSNI made!





It really hasn't, it hasn't had any effect whatsoever on cases where a rape has been alleged to have occurred as each case will be judged upon the circumstances pertaining to each individual case. That's how the criminal justice system actually functions. It's not as though resources are actually that tight that the PSNI carry out investigations into allegations of rape one case at a time, let alone that the Courts services actually hear one case at a time. This means that in cases where the prosecution has what they believe to be sufficient evidence to support a conviction, the case will go forward for trial if the accused maintains that they are not guilty. It will still be up to the prosecution to present evidence to the jury that would lead them to determine that the accused is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.





I don't know whether they are or they aren't tbh, as many of those women who are protesting and marching are victims of rape themselves, and I wouldn't stop anyone from protesting against something they have a fundamental disagreement with. Either we live in a free and democratic society, in which case we allow for civil protests, or we don't live in a free and democratic society, in which case nobody has permission to protest against what they believe to be an injustice. I know which society I personally prefer to live in.





I'm not a woman, but I wouldn't bet my life on it that if my son were ever to behave anything like those men who find themselves in the position they're in now as a result of their own behaviour, you'd lose that bet, so I wouldn't be so quick to bet your life on anything tbh.

There is an inquiry going on within the CPS as to how this claim was ever brought, the media will keep very quiet on this though because everyone is to believe the men werent convicted because there wasnt enough evidence to put them behind bars. The evidence available backs up what the men said and what Dara Florence said so of course the verdict was acquittal.

So of course ordinary members of the public are going to ask why was this case ever taken. The CPS are only supposed to take cases where there isa reasonable prospect of conviction, eleven jurors took less than four hours to go through the cases of each of these men and they were all found not guilty, this equals no reasonable prospect of conviction.

Files and reports and emails relating to this case are being examined to see why the CPS pursued this case against the advice of the PSNI. The PSNI knew what the end result would be and if they didnt they should have. Any legal expert who was allowed to give considered opinion amidst the hysterical feminists shouting said that the evidence didnt stack up so no prospect of conviction, none whatsoever.

I will be looking at every rape case now and thinking is this another fanciful tale, I wouldnt have believed women could make up false allegations and now I do believe it, I have listened to many discussions about this case and most people believe it shouldnt have been taken at all and most certainly the men should not have been named.

The States cost is this case would have been significant not to mention the weeks and weeks of police time put into investigating it, lucky for this woman and her family they have no bills to pay. Jackson has thousands of legal fees to pay and he was acquitted by the court, surely he in fairness should have his legal fees paid too.

mfceiling

the_pen_turner wrote: »

im a bogger and proud.

i dont really have any first hand experience with school kids and what friends they have. i must ask some

i often see kids walking around town with their multicultural friends.

I'm a bogger too!! I was referring to the other clown thinking that kids nowadays wouldn't have friends with diverse backgrounds. My eldest daughters best friends parents are divorced because the father came out as gay.
My youngest has muslim, Indian, Chinese, and Romanian girls in her class.
Another friend of my wife is a lesbian with a 4 year old daughter.
Ireland has changed completely from a generation ago.

tretorn

What is a bogger ?

tretorn

tretorn wrote: »

What is a bogger ?

Unless the term has changed, Pretty much anyone Irish who's not from Dublin. :rolleyes:

JohnnyFlash

tretorn wrote: »

What is a bogger ?

A son of the soil, a muck savage, a toothless hick, a bogtrotter, a silage muncher, a bacon and cabbage merchant.

FishOnABike

tretorn wrote: »

The States cost is this case would have been significant not to mention the weeks and weeks of police time put into investigating it, lucky for this woman and her family they have no bills to pay. Jackson has thousands of legal fees to pay and he was acquitted by the court, surely he in fairness should have his legal fees paid too.

I think it should be a fundamental principle of any functioning democracy that anybody found not guilty should, by default, be entitled to their full legal costs and expenses to be paid for by the state. Otherwise what safeguards would there be against the state using vexatious or malicious prosecutions to financially ruin anyone it sees as a political opponent.

FishOnABike

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Do you mean having in a place a legally-defined way of giving consent ?

foxyladyxx wrote: »

Yes a legal consent form for both parties :P

Deleted User wrote: »

Yup. A definitive manner in which consent can be shown in a court of law to avoid false claims or the claims of innocence by a rapist. Simply relying on verbal agreements isn't working.

jackboy wrote: »

There is no way to prove consent . It's not possible. It will always be up to the jury to give their best guess.

I don't see how having to prove consent could function in practice. For how long would one have to keep a record of 'proof of consent'. Would a person have to keep a life long record, indexed by name, date, location, whatever.. for each and every instance, for each and every sexual partner to be in a position to prove consent was given. It is not workable. It will still come down to "consent was given", "no it wasn't", "yes it was",....

Anybody who disagreees, please hand over your driving licence now if you are unable to prove you haven't been speeding or drunk driving repeatedly in the last year.

joe40

FishOnABike wrote: »

I think it should be a fundamental principle of any functioning democracy that anybody found not guilty should, by default, be entitled to their full legal costs and expenses to be paid for by the state. Otherwise what safeguards would there be against the state using vexatious or malicious prosecutions to financially ruin anyone it sees as a political opponent.

That is why so much importance is placed on keeping government and judiciary separate.

I'm not sure how legal aid works, does it only apply if you do not have sufficient financial means

FishOnABike

joe40 wrote: »

That is why so much importance is placed on keeping government and judiciary separate.

I'm not sure how legal aid works, does it only apply if you do not have sufficient financial means

I'm not sure how it works in the UK, but in Ireland the defendant makes an application to the court for legal aid and needs to satisfy the court of their need. Unless they are obviously chancing their arm I think it is usually granted.

Civil legal aid has relatively strict means and merit tests but, because one's liberty is at stake (and maybe with a little help from the european convention on human rights) criminal legal aid is subject to significantly lower qualifying criteria.

FrancieBrady

tretorn wrote: »

What is a bogger ?

A slut for the country and the smell of pig ****e.

cloudatlas

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You made a value judgement and seek to deny them the same right to do it in private.

I don't think they made any comment on your judgement.

Absolute banana logic, perhaps they would, plenty on here think their value system is fine, it's okay to use demeaning language about women, it's okay for your only source of sex education to be porn where women love gang bangs, being choked, finished on their face and that is normal to do during sex without asking if it's okay, there would be no point in teaching ethics if you couldn't question value systems of another.

Faugheen

Love the way people are blaming the 'mob' already if Jackson and Olding aren't kept by Ulster, instead of the two men who were stupid enough to get themselves into this mess in the first place.