Star Trek Discovery ***Season 2*** [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Evade

I wish the rest of the Starfleet ships in STD looked more like what we saw of the Enterprise in the last episode.

Bobtheman

Im on the episode Perpetual Thinking. Im a bit lost-who is control???

TheValeyard

Bobtheman wrote: »

Im on the episode Perpetual Thinking. Im a bit lost-who is control???

All will become clear...........*











































*its still abit unclear

pixelburp

Bobtheman wrote: »

Im on the episode Perpetual Thinking. Im a bit lost-who is control???

If you mean literally what is it? It's the AI that Section 31 had been using for strategic planning and threat analysis. Like a lot of writing in Discovery, it didn't really do a great job with the narrative foundation to establish it proper.y

CramCycle

pixelburp wrote: »

If you mean literally what is it? It's the AI that Section 31 had been using for strategic planning and threat analysis. Like a lot of writing in Discovery, it didn't really do a great job with the narrative foundation to establish it proper.y

Its a perplexing one as well, but if say why it may ruin it for bobtheman, so spoilers from later on.

They say Control is an AI designed to help S31 and starfleet make tactical choices, basically like a really good civil servant coming up with multiple plans of action for a minister. This is then given over to the Admirals of Starfleet/S31 who say yeah or nay. Presumably because some choices will be politically or morally unpalatable.

Somehow Control managed to ignore this key part of its programming and is now a psycopath. No reason is given as to how or why it was able to jump from being a program giving recommendations to a fully sentient creature that can do what it wants but somehow follows one instruction above all others.

Did I get that right?

Stark

CramCycle wrote: »

Somehow Control managed to ignore this key part of its programming and is now a psycopath. No reason is given as to how or why it was able to jump from being a program giving recommendations to a fully sentient creature that can do what it wants but somehow follows one instruction above all others.

Did I get that right?

wibbly wobbly timey wimey more or less from the looks if it. Control from the future influencing the development of Control in the past

TheValeyard

CramCycle wrote: »

Its a perplexing one as well, but if say why it may ruin it for bobtheman, so spoilers from later on.

They say Control is an AI designed to help S31 and starfleet make tactical choices, basically like a really good civil servant coming up with multiple plans of action for a minister. This is then given over to the Admirals of Starfleet/S31 who say yeah or nay. Presumably because some choices will be politically or morally unpalatable.

Somehow Control managed to ignore this key part of its programming and is now a psycopath. No reason is given as to how or why it was able to jump from being a program giving recommendations to a fully sentient creature that can do what it wants but somehow follows one instruction above all others.

Did I get that right?

SKYNET

Gbear

Just finished it there after getting a bit bored with it and giving up for a few weeks.

I certainly think this season's finale had far more substance than the wet fart that S1 ended on.

Yes, still overflowing with melodrama and saccharine oversharing of emotion, but on the whole it was largely a satisfying wrap up.

Mr.Wemmick

I couldn't get into series 2, bored to tears with the first few episodes, wasn't my favourite story line at the beginning, admittedly.. so I dropped it for quite a few weeks.

This weekend I went for it and it got so much better. In the end, I really enjoyed it.. but yeah, they over did the emotional love bits and I keep wondering why all the flipping speeches, you've no time.. :rolleyes:

But overall, and despite being fragmented, it was great. The main story line was very strong and loved the twist and turns. The ending too was very good.

So yeah.. bring on series 3.

Mr.Wemmick

AllForIt wrote: »

1.Tilly

I know that Star Trek has always been about all races (inclusivity) but it goes a bit far to be inclusive of all personality types. The idea that Tilly is both a ditsy blabbering personalty with big fiery red curly hair and at the same time is a brilliant scientific engineer genius, doesn't work for me, even in the future. It's kinda like they are saying that anyone can be a scientific genius engineer. Nah. Nurds are nurds and they look like nurds because they don't care about their physical appearance. And where is the dress code rule gone when it comes to her hair?


4. I was going to moan about the silver android robot? who turned out to be half human but she's gone now. I would moan though that she didn't have any significant part to play at all and then in one episode she all kicked off. I'm guessing here she was written out as a completely useless character?


So overall I find it bad and good at the same time. Is that a fair assessment? I'm watching though so that speaks for itself. I wonder what the ratings are like?

I agree about the robot woman, but in the end it was a good connect to the story.

Disagree about Tilly. Many socially awkward, spectrum, genius-like people come across as dumb cos' they don't know how to begin or sustained social conversation, and in the end just rabbit on uncomfortably and fail to shut up.

Good on them, for including her and for showing tolerance. In real life she would be hated and criticized.. and nerds, like all people, come in all shapes and personality sizes. So, you've got that completely wrong.

Sad to say, in real life, many nerds have learned to withdraw and not talk at all as it just draws negative attention.. but some I know, thankfully, still talk a lot.. very like Tilly.

The world would be a smaller place without them. Good on the script writers for including her.

Anteayer

It's not like there haven't been somewhat like Tilly before:

Reginald Barclay? - Excellent but odd/eccentric engineer with lots of confidence problems and ticks
Wesley Crusher? - Just plain annoying, but brilliant.
Lwaxana Troi? - Brilliant diplomat, mad as a bag of cats. She was basically the Patsy Stone (Abfab) of Star Trek.
Tom Paris? - Total messer
Nelix? - Should be in the Muppets or maybe Sesame Street?
The Doctor Hologram - Eccentric, aloof, prone to going off into weird tangents about music and novel writing, pompous ...

There's a long list of somewhat annoying characters who turn out to be rather genius at what they actually do.

It's not meant to be a military operation, it's primarily a science / spacefaring organisation staffed by scientists and engineers and generally nerdy types. It's more like a flying university that occasionally gets caught up in battles and in many ways has that kind of vibe to it.

pixelburp

Pretty true, although maybe Neelix isn't a good rebuttal as defence of Tilly

I said it before but to me, Tilly is the Federation; naive, empathic, hopeful, a little eccentric but focused science and discovery. She's the kind of person a peaceful, non hedonistic utopia might produce. She's the "root beer" argument from DS9.

Stark

pixelburp wrote: »

Pretty true, although maybe Neelix isn't a good rebuttal as defence of Tilly

Or Lwaxanna for that matter. The point where Majel Barrett became the "Helena Bonham Carter" of the Star Trek universe.

pixelburp wrote: »

I said it before but to me, Tilly is the Federation; naive, empathic, hopeful, a little eccentric but focused science and discovery. She's the kind of person a peaceful, non hedonistic utopia might produce. She's the "root beer" argument from DS9.

The Season 1 writers did a much better job with her imo. The writing for her became sloppy in Season 2. But I've noticed that with a lot of the characters. The writing for Stamets was also much better in Season 1.

Rawr

pixelburp wrote: »

Pretty true, although maybe Neelix isn't a good rebuttal as defence of Tilly

I said it before but to me, Tilly is the Federation; naive, empathic, hopeful, a little eccentric but focused science and discovery. She's the kind of person a peaceful, non hedonistic utopia might produce. She's the "root beer" argument from DS9.

The thing about Tilly for me, was that I think that the original idea for her was actually really good. She was clearly intended to be a comic relief character but they framed that with a solid setup of a newcomer to Starfleet who was trying to find her way. Initially this was quite endearing and made her a lot more human than the rest of the cast. She felt like what a Trekkie would actually be like if they were suddenly planted into Starfleet. We all like to think that we'd be the next Kirk in that situation...but really we'd probably be like Tilly

S2 had some echoes of what they did with her in S1. Alas, it felt somehow corrupted. Her ambition to find her way in Starfleet was boxed into an ambigious "Command Training Program"...which from what I gathered mostly involved running... It seemed that they were using that as a lazy writing tool rather than work Tilly's development into the overall plot and narritive of some stories.

Beyond that, they appeared to have broken her character down into 2 overly simplified modes:

Tilly the Scientist: She appears to essentially be yet another Scotty (in a ship already full of Scottys) but with an added impuse to blurt out silly stuff....for the LOLs...."This is the Power of Math People!!" was a low point in this season...and the fact that they used it in the season trailer means that they somehow believed that was a good idea. Not much development of her with this...she was just another Scotty....but louder.....

Tilly the Spaz: She was somewhat ditzy / socially awkward person before...but dear god...they really flushed all of nuance out the airlock and took what was chaming with her character and replaced it with multiple fog-horns attached to her head. Nearly every bridge scene with her was just a pit of dispair. Spazing out on the bridge is not the same and being just fun & querky...

Something wierd happened between S1 & S2 that made them either think that they had work to do on this character, or that they somehow worked out the perfect formula for writing Tilly...and then screwed up the execution....

An awful pity....

Anteayer

To be fair to the writers, if you've ever worked with Americans ... There are plenty of people who meet all of the above descriptions - there's always a few Tilly like characters in any academic group too.

CramCycle

Stark wrote: »

But I've noticed that with a lot of the characters. The writing for Stamets was also much better in Season 1.

There was a strong hint in Season 1 that the network changed Stamets, made him more emotional and disjointed, so much so that others noticed but for some reason , they just decided to leave him like that and then ignore the character change.

Acosta

This show is ridiculously entertaining and I'm sad it's now over for another year. What I dislike about it is minimal and is dwarfed by what I love about it.

I had a moan after the first couple of episodes that getting rid of Lorca was a bad move, but after a season of Pike I've almost totally forgotten about him.
It would be crazy for CBS not to green light a Pike/Enterprise show as quickly as possible.

Bringing the show into the 33rd century is a cool idea and will give us something completely new, but as with this season and the success of Pike with the fans, a lot will depend on whatever new characters come into it next season.

The sets and production values on this show are second to none. It was like watching a little movie every week. The Enterprise 1701 bridge never looked so good! Certainly a lot better that the apple shop JJ bridge from the recent movies.

Think I might rewatch the entire thing before the next season.

Rawr

Acosta wrote: »

I had a moan after the first couple of episodes that getting rid of Lorca was a bad move, but after a season of Pike I've almost totally forgotten about him.
It would be crazy for CBS not to green light a Pike/Enterprise show as quickly as possible.

Lorca really won me over in S1. I think it was because of this "Dark War-Captain" angle they were going for that kept me interested. Added to that with Saru (who I've still loved throughout) and *good* Tilly, there was plenty going for the show. Alas they had to go all Cartoon Villain Mode with Lorca when we find out that he's really a Terran....and then he's just gone.

Hell...Terran Lorca as a Starfleet War-Captain would have been a lot more interesting for stories etc...than having Terran Evil-Queen Geogeio in S31. They should have just kept him.

Agreed with the Pike show. I like the Spock, I like the Pike, I like the Number One. Redesign Enterprise is a fairly nice modernisation of the ship (better than the JJ-movie Enterprise). I would love to join this NCC-1701 on another 5-year mission. Maybe we could get some early Doc McCoy too...would be fun.

As for Discovery...

The ONLY things that might bring me back for S3 are Captain Saru, and the off-chance that they will encounter the remains of the TNG world. If there's no Saru, nothing remotely TNG related and the whole thing becomes a whole Michael-fest again where she's hunting for her mother (and that's all we get), then I really can't see myself watching S3.

Will hope for the Picard show to be running instead, so I can watch that one.

Slydice

Oh yeah.. that's the good stuff...

I've rewatched the scene where Enterprise puts itself in between the drones and discovery SO MUCH!

Johnny Storm

Anteayer wrote: »

Nelix? - Should be in the Muppets or maybe Sesame Street?

A truer word was never said........ :-)

Ethereal Cereal

Rawr wrote: »

Lorca really won me over in S1. I think it was because of this "Dark War-Captain" angle they were going for that kept me interested. Added to that with Saru (who I've still loved throughout) and *good* Tilly, there was plenty going for the show. Alas they had to go all Cartoon Villain Mode with Lorca when we find out that he's really a Terran....and then he's just gone.

Hell...Terran Lorca as a Starfleet War-Captain would have been a lot more interesting for stories etc...than having Terran Evil-Queen Geogeio in S31. They should have just kept him.

Agreed with the Pike show. I like the Spock, I like the Pike, I like the Number One. Redesign Enterprise is a fairly nice modernisation of the ship (better than the JJ-movie Enterprise). I would love to join this NCC-1701 on another 5-year mission. Maybe we could get some early Doc McCoy too...would be fun.

Yea, when I saw all the enterprise sets they created, which had a great production value, I thought they must have already commissioned a new ToS show.

Usually I dont like prequels that much, but I could totally get on board with this prequel.

Anson Mount, Rebecca Romijn and Ethan Peck made for a fantastic Pike, Number One and Spock. The uniforms and the ships design was just the right mix of the retro look of TOS blended with current technology.

TheIrishGrover

Ethereal Cereal wrote: »

Anson Mount, Rebecca Romijn and Ethan Peck made for a fantastic Pike, Number One and Spock. The uniforms and the ships design was just the right mix of the retro look of TOS blended with current technology.

Yeah, I'd watch the hell out of that show. I thought they were all great.

368100

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Yeah, I'd watch the hell out of that show. I thought they were all great.

Agree...apart from Rebecca....that scene with the admiral was a bit odd, making out they had some big relationship with each other despite it never being seen or mentioned on screen. She was hardly in it too much.

nozzferrahhtoo

As I am working away from home for a few weeks I decided to binge watch Season 2 and really enjoyed it. For a Netflix budget it was pretty epic, especially the space battles near the end.

Though I think they might have gone a LITTLE over board with the tear jerky farewells to Burnham as she was going on her "last" mission. Felt like it took up over half that episode. But was nicely emotional all the same. They were so doing "Iron Man" poses with her in the suit though. As was the "Oh captain my captain" type moment as Pike left the Bridge.

I felt a blubber.

There is one plot issue I can not reconcile in my head though. With 775 posts on this thread it has probably been asked and answered already so apologies if so!

In one of the last episodes it was declared by the Klingon Chancellor that if it was ever found out that Ash Tyler / Voq was still alive it would, to quite her directly "Open up the Empire to Sedition".

Yet in the final battle only one episode later, he rides into the rescue on the Bridge of a Battle Cruiser full of Klingons at the Chancellors side.

How did they explain that one, did I miss it, or is said sedition likely to be a part of Season 3 now.

TheIrishGrover

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

There is one plot issue I can not reconcile in my head though. With 775 posts on this thread it has probably been asked and answered already so apologies if so!

In one of the last episodes it was declared by the Klingon Chancellor that if it was ever found out that Ash Tyler / Voq was still alive it would, to quite her directly "Open up the Empire to Sedition".

Yet in the final battle only one episode later, he rides into the rescue on the Bridge of a Battle Cruiser full of Klingons at the Chancellors side.

How did they explain that one, did I miss it, or is said sedition likely to be a part of Season 3 now.

I totally never copped that. Hah.

Slydice

Probably a plot arc that with follow them into the next few seasons.

Goodshape

Hehe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn4fW0EInqw

pixelburp

Haha totally mean, but kinda true. Can't imagine their season 2 review being kind. RLM are about the only jokey YouTube film channel I can stand, mostly cos they're relatively selfaware

silverharp

anyone following the guy suing over Discovery ripping off his computer game for plot and character ideas ? I hope he gets somewhere

Stark

https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/30/star-trek-discovery-is-being-sued-for-stealing-plot-lines-and-characters-from-a-little-known-2014-video-game-7895600/

When they started taking their clothes off, I thought it might have been a plot that Enterprise plagiarised.