How can I build muscle without meat?

Alf Veedersane

Markgc wrote: »

We cannot enrich humanities experience on this planet by continuing to destroy life surrounding us.

Cool story.

Again, agree to disagree.

Markgc

Eating meat hardens blood vessels.
Livestock production impacts the planet in a huge way.
Eating meat ups your risk of type 2 diabetes.
Meat puts your colon and brain at risk.
Meat is chock full of harmful hormones.
Red meats are high in saturated fat, which raises blood cholesterol.

Let's agree to disagree.

Tar.Aldarion

Markgc wrote: »

Eating meat hardens blood vessels.
Livestock production impacts the planet in a huge way.
Eating meat ups your risk of type 2 diabetes.
Meat puts your colon and brain at risk.
Meat is chock full of harmful hormones.
Red meats are high in saturated fat, which raises blood cholesterol.

Let's agree to disagree.

Health concerns are the least relevant of the reasons for being vegan, debating with a style like that is also not cogent to getting somebody to listen to you. Veganism is about compassion and you won't change the minds and hearts of people without it. Sure it is awful that feeling , sentient beings are hurt and killed and that can make you angry but people are raised to think these things are ok by society and that is hard to change even though it may appear silly to you. People are already on the defensive since we are basically telling them they are wrong, arguing like just makes them moreso. There is a good book on being a pragmatic vegan here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Create-Vegan-World-Pragmatic/dp/1590565703/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1520127483&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=tobias+leinhert
His blog: http://veganstrategist.org/


There was a video I saw recently that I think you'll like about aforementioned societal norms, it's about a society where raping women is still accepted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poxl0K9UrP0

Getting very off topic now but I believe you got your answers :P

Rodin

Markgc wrote: »

I haven't lifted weights in ten years and would like to restart and get big and strong but red meat from cows is pumped with antibiotics and pork is packed with cholesterol and saturated fat. But primarily not at the expense of an animal's life.

Can anyone point me to a good vegan guide or regime?

Regards
Markgc

How does a gorilla build muscle?
They're herbivores and they'd kick your ass.

gctest50

Rodin wrote: »

How does a gorilla build muscle?
They're herbivores and they'd kick your ass.

Daft line of arguing


Humans and our daycent meat-eatin' friends the leopard are what preys on gorillas

Kick your ass ? Harambe n friends won't outrun your bullet

Gorillas destroy our crops and they are vicious animals', the authors were
told last December in Gabon, where they were investigating the status of gorillas and chimpanzees. Gorillas can be shot on sight, and both animals are killed for meat. Gabon people are predominantly rural, and because they are so dependent on the forests for food, it may be that the Government will preserve these, and with them the wildlife, despite impending large-scale development.
In every village in which we stopped and enquired, gorilla skulls were proudly produced by the local people. One restaurant owned by a Frenchman not only
had three gorilla heads mounted on its walls, but also a captive juvenile gorilla in a chicken coop in the back yard. 'Could we easily buy a young gorilla or chimpanzee ourselves?' we asked. 'No trouble at all: adults are being killed all the time in retaliation for crop-raiding and as food. If the young are not captured, they simply starve on the body of their dead mother.'

Rodin

gctest50 wrote: »

Daft line of arguing


Humans and our daycent meat-eatin' friends the leopard are what preys on gorillas

Kick your ass ? Harambe n friends won't outrun your bullet

You're confusing building muscle with building a brain.
If you want to build muscle you can be a vegetarian like a gorilla.
If you want to build a brain, read some books.

Markgc

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Health concerns are the least relevant of the reasons for being vegan, debating with a style like that is also not cogent to getting somebody to listen to you. Veganism is about compassion and you won't change the minds and hearts of people without it. Sure it is awful that feeling , sentient beings are hurt and killed and that can make you angry but people are raised to think these things are ok by society and that is hard to change even though it may appear silly to you. People are already on the defensive since we are basically telling them they are wrong, arguing like just makes them moreso. There is a good book on being a pragmatic vegan here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Create-Vegan-World-Pragmatic/dp/1590565703/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1520127483&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=tobias+leinhert
His blog: http://veganstrategist.org/


There was a video I saw recently that I think you'll like about aforementioned societal norms, it's about a society where raping women is still accepted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poxl0K9UrP0

Getting very off topic now but I believe you got your answers :P

Cheers pal I know. I had plenty of earlier arguments on previous page but it's a long exasperating debate. No changing minds in a day. Nice educated people but blind to the facts.

s7ryf3925pivug

Markgc wrote: »

Eating meat hardens blood vessels.
Livestock production impacts the planet in a huge way.
Eating meat ups your risk of type 2 diabetes.
Meat puts your colon and brain at risk.
Meat is chock full of harmful hormones.
Red meats are high in saturated fat, which raises blood cholesterol.

Let's agree to disagree.

It doesn’t raise your risk of type 2 diabetes. If you are at risk of type 2 diabetes you might be advised to eat more meat. Fat and protein reduce blood sugar spikes after eating. Meat makes you feel full so it’s easier to get lean.

Not all meat hardens blood vessels.

I’m guessing the brain thing is wrong too. Slightly related - Roundup exposure looks like it can cause brain cancer, so don’t eat GM soy.

You can eat healthy with or without abstaining from meat or animal products. It’s less hassle to do so without abstaining from either.

100% agree with the environmental impact aspect though. It’s especially true with beef.

Mellor

Some awful logic and reasoning in this thread. On both sides. Well done lads.

ford2600

Mellor wrote: »

Some awful logic and reasoning in this thread. On both sides. Well done lads.

Vegans who wish to convert people are fundamentally tied to a belief system rather than logic.

Everything must fit to a set of beliefs, very similar mindset to any evangelical religion.

I had thought OP was genuine so posted a link to a very worthwhile podcast. If I had known OP was just a ruse I wouldn't have bothered; for the same reason I wouldn't discuss evolution with a firm believer in the Old Book

gozunda

Markgc wrote: »

The thread has wandered a bit. Thanks for replies even though I don't agree with all. You're entilted to your opinions.But the thing is, we as a global civilisation are supposed to have highly developed morally, socially/intellectually and ethically in the last few hundred years; fifty years especially; never mind thirty thousand years.We have grown in many ways. It's been said oh we have to eat meat because that's the way it always been. Well all those years ago adult men had sex with children. It was okay then as it was the norm but we as a people have grown beyond it today. We now know it is downright abominable.To butcher animals by the millions daily is also abominable when we have the intellect and capability to source our nutrition through other methods.Animals are the innocent children of today and we need to treat them with the utmost respect they are surely entilted to if humanity is to progress in any positive way.

The "thread has wandered abit? lol
Jeez I get the vegan thing but even your opening post was more about the religous proselytizing
part of veganism than building muscle imo. So is that one ^^^^ :rolleyes:

Not surprising that you are going to get a reaction from posters whilst making claims "meat is full of antibiotics" and "taking animals lives." "Sex with children" Etc

The I am seeing more and more of these types of threads where veganism is being pushed using dodgy science, hype etc. Even in this thread the use of evangelical phraseology such as 'bear witness' etc etc is obvious

Anyway back to the muscle issue - you should have no problem on a vegan diet as long as you don't eat sh1te processed foods and stay away from soya - that stuff is not good for many many reasons.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/is-soy-bad-for-you-or-good

Best of luck with it ....

gozunda

ford2600 wrote: »

Vegans who wish to convert people are fundamentally tied to a belief system rather than logic.

Everything must fit to a set of beliefs, very similar mindset to any evangelical religion.

I had thought OP was genuine so posted a link to a very worthwhile podcast. If I had known OP was just a ruse I wouldn't have bothered; for the same reason I wouldn't discuss evolution with a firm believer in the Old Book

Lol you bet me to that ford ...
But yes I agree - way too much going on there imo ...

Alf Veedersane

Markgc wrote: »

Eating meat hardens blood vessels.
Livestock production impacts the planet in a huge way.
Eating meat ups your risk of type 2 diabetes.
Meat puts your colon and brain at risk.
Meat is chock full of harmful hormones.
Red meats are high in saturated fat, which raises blood cholesterol.

Let's agree to disagree.

Don't be one of those vegans that gives vegans a bad name.

gozunda

Markgc wrote: »

...

Life is very vivid to animals. In many cases they know who they are. They know who their friends are and who their rivals are. They have ambitions for higher status. They compete. Their lives follow the arc of a career, like ours do. We both try to stay alive, get food and shelter, and raise some young for the next generation. Animals are no different from us in that regard and I think that their presence here on Earth is tremendously enriching.
Current research provides compelling evidence that at least some animals likely feel a full range of emotions, including fear, joy, happiness, shame, embarrassment, resentment, jealousy, rage, anger, love, pleasure, compassion, respect, relief, disgust, sadness, despair, and grief (Skutch 1996, Poole 1996, 1998, Panksepp 1998, Archer 1999, Cabanac 1999, Bekoff 2000).

Sorry OP but I have to reply to that one before I go

Animals have been eating other animals since the first multicellular organism crawled out of the primordial ooze.

Predators and other meat eaters are part of the natural world. A wolf eating a caribou is part of the entropy / flow of energy and recycling of nutrients which is a fundamental part of the planet's ecosystem.

So unless you are going to genetically manipulate animals to not wanting to eat other animals (and yes I've see this proposed on vegan websites lol) you're on a hiding to now where with that bit of preaching...

Avatar MIA

Ah OP, why do you hate animals?

Cows, pigs, sheep would not survive without human husbandry. Do you think there would be fields of cows if they were of no practical use to humans. You'd probably have a few dozen worldwide in zoos.

So, by all means continue to build muscle on a vegan diet, it can be done, but don't think you are any better than the rest of us. We appreciate animals.

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Sorry OP but I have to reply to that one before I go

Animals have been eating other animals since the first multicellular organism crawled out of the primordial ooze.

Predators and other meat eaters are part of the natural world. A wolf eating a caribou is part of the entropy / flow of energy and recycling of nutrients which is a fundamental part of the planet's ecosystem.

So unless you are going to genetically manipulate animals to not wanting to eat other animals (and yes I've see this proposed on vegan websites lol) you're on a hiding to now where with that bit of preaching...

A wolf eating a caribou is hardly comparable to the way humans imprison, torture and slaughter animals when they don’t need to for human survival. It’s a pretty barbaric choice for a human to make.

It’s not like a wolf can pop down to Tesco and avail of the choices there.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A wolf eating a caribou is hardly comparable to the way humans imprison, torture and slaughter animals when they don’t need to for human survival. It’s a pretty barbaric choice for a human to make.
It’s not like a wolf can pop down to Tesco and avail of the choices there.

That's not the point the OP was making now was it? Go read it again before attempting a reply.

But yes a wolf stalking, attacking, killing, dismembeing and eating a caribou with all that blood and gore and thrashing ain't for the faint hearted is it?

Btw thems is your opinions. I would respectfully disagree and place your argument in the 'religous hype and the rest of the preaching section' of the rubbish bin tbh

Thanks all the same

Avatar MIA

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Ah OP, why do you hate animals?

Cows, pigs, sheep would not survive without human husbandry. Do you think there would be fields of cows if they were of no practical use to humans. You'd probably have a few dozen worldwide in zoos.

So, by all means continue to build muscle on a vegan diet, it can be done, but don't think you are any better than the rest of us. We appreciate animals.

That’s hilarious. Are you suggesting those animals (prior to selective breeding) didn’t exist before humans ?

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

That's not the point the OP was making now was it? Go read it again before attempting a reply.

But yes a wolf stalking, attacking, killing, dismembeing and eating a caribou with all that blood and gore and thrashing ain't for the faint hearted is it?

Btw thems is your opinions. I would respectfully disagree and place your argument in the 'religous hype' section of the rubbish bin tbh

Thanks all the same

Why are you hiding behind what the OP may have said ?

I responded to your comment.

Avatar MIA

Deleted User wrote: »

That’s hilarious. Are you suggesting those animals (prior to selective breeding) didn’t exist before humans ?

I thought we were talking about the here and now?

The animals I listed did not exist before domestication. They are man made... They even have a word for it. Domestication. Vanishingly few would exist without humans. Is this something you didn't reaslise? Surely not...

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why are you hiding behind what the OP may have said ? I responded to your comment.

It's called context ...The OP referred to all animals - so did I. Thanks

Btw what do you think about some vegans wanting to genetically manipulate animals so they will not eat other animals?

Grateful Dread

gozunda wrote: »

Predators and other meat eaters are part of the natural world.

I love this one. Tell me all about how you're a predator when going to Dunnes to buy packaged meat? :pac:

For the record, I eat meat, but I'm under no illusions.

Avatar MIA

Grateful Dread wrote: »

Tell me all about how you're a predator when going to Dunnes to buy packaged meat? :pac:

Did you not go shopping yesterday, looking covetously at a humble yellow wrapped sliced pan in someone else's shopping trolley could have ended in blows.

vf949

OP in your ideal world what would happen to the billions of farm animals in the world?

You say meat is pumped full of antibiotics. Are the grains, fruits and vegetables that you eat not applied with numerous chemicals while being grown? Are you sure that they are all produced in an ethical way in the far flung parts of the world that they are grown?

gozunda

gozunda wrote:

Predators and / other meat eater /s ....

Grateful Dread wrote: »

-I love this one.Tell me all about how you're a predator when going to Dunnes to buy packaged meat. For the record, I eat meat, but I'm under no illusions.

bladespin

OP yes, about 1g protein per lb or thereabouts (a bit less is fine though), cals in surplus and hypertrophy exercises should yeild results, many have done it.

I like vegans thouh, means more meat for the rest of us and I can respect their ideals without agreeing with them. Off for me egg and bacon brekkie.

Sandor Clegane

bladespin wrote: »

OP yes, about 1g protein per lb or thereabouts (a bit less is fine though), cals in surplus and hypertrophy exercises should yeild results, many have done it.

I like vegans thouh, means more meat for the rest of us and I can respect their ideals without agreeing with them. Off for me egg and bacon brekkie.

1 gram per lb of body weight is overkill, 1-1.6 per kg is sufficient for building muscle.

People who dont train need much less, protein has been so over hyped by the bodybuilding culture its crazy.

Alf Veedersane

Sandor Clegane wrote: »

1 gram per lb of body weight is overkill, 1-1.6 per kg is sufficient for building muscle.

People who dont train need much less, protein has been so over hyped by the bodybuilding culture its crazy.

They said 'about' 1g per lb. It makes it easy to remembe to use '1 per 1', that's all.

bladespin

Sandor Clegane wrote:

1 gram per lb of body weight is overkill, 1-1.6 per kg is sufficient for building muscle.

I did mention a bit less is fine and it was in the context of bb where we want the best bang for our buck; overkill is better and underestimation, don't care about requirements for non trainers.
Thanks for the usual protein lecture though.

Sandor Clegane

bladespin wrote: »

I did mention a bit less is fine and it was in the context of bb where we want the best bang for our buck; overkill is better and underestimation, don't care about requirements for non trainers.
Thanks for the usual protein lecture though.

You're welcome.