Overrated GAA Players

0byme75341jo28

Snow has me bored stiff so said I'd try get a thread going, hope this doesn't count as player bashing I think it's a discussion worth having. I have immense respect for all of our amateur sportsmen and it would be great if all posters treat them the same if they are going to comment.

I see many people talking about Lar Corbett after the Laochra Gael last night, but I always felt he was overrated. Had a great day in 2010 (and fair play to him), but I think this is the main reason why he's rated so highly, he rarely reached these heights otherwise.

From a football POV I can't help but feel Stephen Cluxton's influence on the Dublin team is overstated, along with the assertion that he "revolutionised the position of goalkeeper". A fine steady keeper with very accurate kickouts, an important cog in the Dublin machine, but no more important than the other 14 in my opinion.

What do you think?

Fann Linn

Fabian Creamy Hairdressing wrote: »

Snow has me bored stiff so said I'd try get a thread going, hope this doesn't count as player bashing I think it's a discussion worth having. I have immense respect for all of our amateur sportsmen and it would be great if all posters treat them the same if they are going to comment.

I see many people talking about Lar Corbett after the Laochra Gael last night, but I always felt he was overrated. Had a great day in 2010 (and fair play to him), but I think this is the main reason why he's rated so highly, he rarely reached these heights otherwise.

From a football POV I can't help but feel Stephen Cluxton's influence on the Dublin team is overstated, along with the assertion that he "revolutionised the position of goalkeeper". A fine steady keeper with very accurate kickouts, an important cog in the Dublin machine, but no more important than the other 14 in my opinion.

What do you think?

I'll indulge you. Cillian, misses frees on the big occasions.

mordeith

I never bought into the Cluxton thing either. I mean he sure had an accurate kick out but the outfield players had to make the space for him to kick into.

0byme75341jo28

Fann Linn wrote: »

I'll indulge you. Cillian, misses frees on the big occasions.

As a free taker he's the best in the country imo (yes, above Dean Rock), but his overall game leaves a lot to be desired at times.

Fann Linn

Fabian Creamy Hairdressing wrote: »

As a free taker he's the best in the country imo (yes, above Dean Rock), but his overall game leaves a lot to be desired at times.

As has been proven on the big occasion both Rock and Cluxton have passed the test, Cillian hasn't.
And that is just in relation to kicking frees or 45s.

jam83

Fabian Creamy Hairdressing wrote: »

As a free taker he's the best in the country imo (yes, above Dean Rock), but his overall game leaves a lot to be desired at times.

No way is here better than Rock. O Connor has missed 2 frees in 2 successive all Ireland's when the pressure was huge. Rock hasn't.

jam83

Fabian Creamy Hairdressing wrote: »

Snow has me bored stiff so said I'd try get a thread going, hope this doesn't count as player bashing I think it's a discussion worth having. I have immense respect for all of our amateur sportsmen and it would be great if all posters treat them the same if they are going to comment.

I see many people talking about Lar Corbett after the Laochra Gael last night, but I always felt he was overrated. Had a great day in 2010 (and fair play to him), but I think this is the main reason why he's rated so highly, he rarely reached these heights otherwise.

From a football POV I can't help but feel Stephen Cluxton's influence on the Dublin team is overstated, along with the assertion that he "revolutionised the position of goalkeeper". A fine steady keeper with very accurate kickouts, an important cog in the Dublin machine, but no more important than the other 14 in my opinion.

What do you think?

I'd agree on Corbett. He never seemed like the kind of unstoppable force that other players featured on Laochra Gael were.

Dots1982

If you don’t think cluxton is at least the greatest Gaelic football goalkeeper of all time then I wouldn’t take anything you’d say seriously. Just my opinion. Perhaps you are right but I doubt it.

LooseCannonUF

Dots1982 wrote: »

If you don’t think cluxton is at least the greatest Gaelic football goalkeeper of all time then I wouldn’t take anything you’d say seriously. Just my opinion. Perhaps you are right but I doubt it.

Agreed, he’ll never be fit to lace Martin Furlong’s boots.

jam83

I had a look at this team
https://www.todayfm.com/skysports
and I'd be reaching if I was to pick an overrated player on it. The greats on that team I think merit it and I don't know if I could find an overrated player on it. I don't rate McGeeney as high as moynihan but McGeeney still isn't overrated in the media as he's not spoken about in the same vein as "legends" like Gooch.

I think Michael Murphy fits the overrated bill. He drifts around too much to totally own and dominate games, yet I've heard him mentioned by plenty of players and managers in interviews as one of the best in the country. But I don't consistently see it. He's very talented but I think he's overrated.

corny

Fabian Creamy Hairdressing wrote: »

From a football POV I can't help but feel Stephen Cluxton's influence on the Dublin team is overstated, along with the assertion that he "revolutionised the position of goalkeeper". A fine steady keeper with very accurate kickouts, an important cog in the Dublin machine, but no more important than the other 14 in my opinion.

Would goalkeepers still be hoofing it up the middle if Dublin had a different goalkeeper the last 10 years?........ No way would they. The push towards securing greater control of possession was happening with or without Cluxton.

Great exponent though and even without the assertion that he's single handedly changed the game he still deserves to be thought of as one of the best ever.

yogi37

I might get slated for this but I think Ciaran Kilkenny is over-rated. Don't get me wrong, he is a fine footballer and impressive athlete but the level of praise he has received over that past two seasons has been a bit generous. Links with footballer of the year and suggestions that he is Dublin's most important player are over the mark I think. Worthy of his place in a top class team but no better than the rest of Dublin's numerous top class forwards.

BonnieSituation

Colm Cooper


* legs it *

The_Kew_Tour

Aidan O Shea

jam83

yogi37 wrote: »

I might get slated for this but I think Ciaran Kilkenny is over-rated. Don't get me wrong, he is a fine footballer and impressive athlete but the level of praise he has received over that past two seasons has been a bit generous. Links with footballer of the year and suggestions that he is Dublin's most important player are over the mark I think. Worthy of his place in a top class team but no better than the rest of Dublin's numerous top class forwards.

100% agree. Over the years he has carried so much ball laterally and handpasses it backwards.

blue note

I actually felt lad Corbett was underrated. In particular when sheet came in he just kept scoring (not just 2010!). And yet people always seemed determined to point out that he wasn't that good. For a few years, his scoring was similar to Mullahs at his best.

One it always annoyed me for being overrated was Henry Shefflin. Having seen him for all of his career, I can say he's one of the best hurlers I've seen. You could make a good case for him being the best. There's probably 7 or 8 hurlers I'd include in that list. But for years if you suggested he wasn't the best of this era and probably all time you were attacked for knowing nothing about hurling and not understanding it's not all about scoring and his contribution was what I was missing. I wasn't missing it! There were just other players who were also brilliant!

jam83

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Aidan O Shea

I think he gets as much criticism as praise so I don't know is he overrated as a result!

The_Honeybadger

Connolly, awesome footballer on his day in fairness but doesn’t do it often enough and has an awful tendency to let his team down with petulant sendings off. Many people seem to rate him as one of the best ever but I don’t think he is anywhere near that good quite frankly. I’d take Paul Flynn over him any day of the week.

Aidan O’Shea as well, although there are so many questioning him at this stage that I’m not sure he is overrated any more. Fine footballer, but often fades out of important games when Mayo need him to step up. He has probably suffered a bit with being moved around and Mayo not knowing how to get the best out of him, on his day he is brilliant though.

Solomon Pleasant

I’m going to be controversial and say Cian O Sullivan for Dublin. I think he’s protected by the pace and athleticism of the other Dublin defenders and that he isn’t nearly as dynamic as the others.

He plays an important role for Dublin but I think he’s a defender that a lot of forwards would get the better of if it wasn’t for the quality of the rest of the Dublin team.

In short, the other Dublin players make him look better than he actually is.

Dots1982

Most of the players been mentioned are the best in the country.

If I had to pick one I’d pick eoin cadogan, if had to pick two I’d pick cadogan and Brian Hurley. Both cork but to be honest if I had to pick a few more they’d be mainly from cork aswell.

Motivator

Shefflin was always overrated. Good from places balls but was nowhere near as good as people made out. Wasn’t even the best player on the Kilkenny team. Lots of better forwards down through the years - very diffiicult to find a “like for like” player in hurling because every player has different strengths and weaknesses and with players popping up in different positions game after game ie centre forward one week, wing forward the next, full forward the next.

EICVD

Fabian Creamy Hairdressing wrote: »

As a free taker he's the best in the country imo (yes, above Dean Rock), but his overall game leaves a lot to be desired at times.

Are you serious? ‘LOL’ as the kids say!

EICVD

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Aidan O Shea

Came to mind soon as I saw this thread

corny

Solomon Pleasant wrote: »

I’m going to be controversial and say Cian O Sullivan for Dublin. I think he’s protected by the pace and athleticism of the other Dublin defenders and that he isn’t nearly as dynamic as the others.

He plays an important role for Dublin but I think he’s a defender that a lot of forwards would get the better of if it wasn’t for the quality of the rest of the Dublin team.

In short, the other Dublin players make him look better than he actually is.

Yeah thats definitely controversial (polite way of saying completely wrong)

O'Sullivan is an unbelievable athlete. Quick, dynamic and powerful. Back in the days when he was an orthodox marker i don't think many got the better of him either.

fire_man

Shane O'Donnell. Hard working but doesn't offer enough scoring threat.

Urindanger

Lee Chin. Fine hurler who has his moments but seems to have his arse licked clean by everyone in the GAA.

Poor_old_gill

Connolly - a flat track bully who doesnt score a whole pile in AI finals
Cillian O Connor - very mediocre all round game with big numbers masked by free taking (and he messes this up on the big day)
James O Donoghue - very markable as he does the same thing every time, runs in straight line with head down.

One_Of_Shanks

The Gooch. Incredible how he got away with too many steps over and over again. If you keep the ball in yer arms for long enough then you'll get goals, how can anyone take it off you?
He did it over and over again. Amazing how he got away with it again and again.

Great player though and I'm only seizing my chance to get my dig in.

Connolly is a tad over rated too. Not denying his talent as such but he plays for himself. He could have cost Dublin the AI 2 years back by going for hollywood instead of doing what was best for the team.

In terns of under-rated , Kev Mac for Dubs.

Keegan from Mayo is a wonderful player, just saying.

PARlance

yogi37 wrote: »

I might get slated for this but I think Ciaran Kilkenny is over-rated. Don't get me wrong, he is a fine footballer and impressive athlete but the level of praise he has received over that past two seasons has been a bit generous. Links with footballer of the year and suggestions that he is Dublin's most important player are over the mark I think. Worthy of his place in a top class team but no better than the rest of Dublin's numerous top class forwards.

I think Jim turned him into an "averagely good" player with the role he gave him a couple of years ago. He would be still terrorising defences if he wasn't playing his role imo. He hasn't been a Dublin forward for a few years.

0byme75341jo28

Lots of dubs being named.

Just a theory - maybe they're just such a great, well drilled team that their individual qualities largely go unnoticed?

0byme75341jo28

Dots1982 wrote: »

Most of the players been mentioned are the best in the country.

If I had to pick one I’d pick eoin cadogan, if had to pick two I’d pick cadogan and Brian Hurley. Both cork but to be honest if I had to pick a few more they’d be mainly from cork aswell.

Is Cadogan still even rated? I'm a Cork man and haven't rated him for years. Brian Hurley has been destroyed by injuries don't think he approached his potential at all.

From my own county I feel Aidan Walsh is ridiculously overrated. His fitness levels these days are shocking.

Clonmel1000

Fabian Creamy Hairdressing wrote: »

Snow has me bored stiff so said I'd try get a thread going, hope this doesn't count as player bashing I think it's a discussion worth having. I have immense respect for all of our amateur sportsmen and it would be great if all posters treat them the same if they are going to comment.

I see many people talking about Lar Corbett after the Laochra Gael last night, but I always felt he was overrated. Had a great day in 2010 (and fair play to him), but I think this is the main reason why he's rated so highly, he rarely reached these heights otherwise.

From a football POV I can't help but feel Stephen Cluxton's influence on the Dublin team is overstated, along with the assertion that he "revolutionised the position of goalkeeper". A fine steady keeper with very accurate kickouts, an important cog in the Dublin machine, but no more important than the other 14 in my opinion.

What do you think?

Lar has a super 09 final. He scored 4-4 in the 2011 Munster Final. Hatrick in 09 All Ireland semi final Tipps all time top goal scorer. And you think Lar rarely reached heights and was over rated?

Poor_old_gill

Fabian Creamy Hairdressing wrote: »

Is Cadogan still even rated? I'm a Cork man and haven't rated him for years. Brian Hurley has been destroyed by injuries don't think he approached his potential at all.

From my own county I feel Aidan Walsh is ridiculously overrated. His fitness levels these days are shocking.

Jeez I forgot about Cadogan- he is absolutely mince!
I watched one Munster final where he got roasted by 3 different players- they kept on moving him off lads and whoever he went onto roasted him- it was kinda hilarious

djPSB

Michael Dara McAuley. The skill level of a Junior B footballer.

Shows how far football has fallen when he can win footballer of the year.

Urindanger

Fabian Creamy Hairdressing wrote: »

Is Cadogan still even rated? I'm a Cork man and haven't rated him for years. Brian Hurley has been destroyed by injuries don't think he approached his potential at all.

From my own county I feel Aidan Walsh is ridiculously overrated. His fitness levels these days are shocking.

Not sure many would rate him that highly any more beyond a little sentimental value, if that's the right word. Aidan Walsh is simply burnt out I feel. I couldn't imagine the mileage he's put in over the years but I'd wager it's up there with anyone else in the country. Dublin would want to be careful with Con O Callaghan or they might only get a few more years out him.

If Walsh wasn't playing football he was playing hurling. If he wasn't playing for Cork he was playing for Duhallow. If he wasn't playing for them he was playing for Kanturk.

Always felt it was a shame Cork hurling was in a bit of a state when he was around his best. I always rated him as a more natural hurler than footballer.

0byme75341jo28

Urindanger wrote: »

Not sure many would rate him that highly any more beyond a little sentimental value, if that's the right word. Aidan Walsh is simply burnt out I feel. I couldn't imagine the mileage he's put in over the years but I'd wager it's up there with anyone else in the country. Dublin would want to be careful with Con O Callaghan or they might only get a few more years out him.

If Walsh wasn't playing football he was playing hurling. If he wasn't playing for Cork he was playing for Duhallow. If he wasn't playing for them he was playing for Kanturk.

Always felt it was a shame Cork hurling was in a bit of a state when he was around his best. I always rated him as a more natural hurler than footballer.

Good point about Walsh in fairness. He was class in his early 20s but took a complete nosedive in the past few years, he always struck me as a great GAA man though with all the matches he plays

Powerhouse

Fabian Creamy Hairdressing wrote: »

I see many people talking about Lar Corbett after the Laochra Gael last night, but I always felt he was overrated. Had a great day in 2010 (and fair play to him), but I think this is the main reason why he's rated so highly, he rarely reached these heights otherwise.

From a football POV I can't help but feel Stephen Cluxton's influence on the Dublin team is overstated, along with the assertion that he "revolutionised the position of goalkeeper". A fine steady keeper with very accurate kickouts, an important cog in the Dublin machine, but no more important than the other 14 in my opinion.

What do you think?

I'd have thought that Corbett is underrated if anything. He has more championship goals than Henry Shefflin, Eddie Brennan or Richie Power who played in a team which won the All Ireland nearly every year often by hitting very big scores, and racked up huge margins against Offaly and Wexford as well.

Three goals in an All Ireland and four in a Munster Final is fair going. He also scored goals in four Munster Finals. Not too many have done that in the last 30 years I'd say. And as has been mentioned his performance in the 2009 All Ireland final was a wonder.

The point is though that we rarely hear him talked up. You can argue he was no good which is a personal opinion, but you can hardly say he was overrated. Who are these people who are overrating him?

As for Cluxton, it might be that you are underestimating the importance of an accurate kickout in modern football. But you could argue he is overrated. At least there is a legitimate case for that in the first place that he is widely highly rated. You tend not to hear that of Corbett. Whether one agrees with you about Cluxton or not at least there is the basis of a genuine discussion there.

threeball

Diarmuid O Connor. How he won young player of the year is anyone's guess. Barely intercounty standard.

glasagusban

Kilkenny and Connolly. Keegan marking either of them makes them obsolete.

nice_guy80

threeball wrote: »

Diarmuid O Connor. How he won young player of the year is anyone's guess. Barely intercounty standard.

goes around looking for a fight or hitting lads, then tries to get opponents carded.

Fr Tod Umptious

threeball wrote: »

Diarmuid O Connor. How he won young player of the year is anyone's guess. Barely intercounty standard.

He won it twice !

sightband

glasagusban wrote: »

Kilkenny and Connolly. Keegan marking either of them makes them obsolete.

Who have 9 all Ireland medals between them compared to Keegans none, okey dokey

seligehgit

threeball wrote: »

Diarmuid O Connor. How he won young player of the year is anyone's guess. Barely intercounty standard.

Barely inter county standard.:eek:

In his breakthrough year 2015 he was outstanding up the semi final replay.He was a tad fortuitous to retain the young POTY in 2016 as he was suffering with injuries most especially post Emmet Bolton's late tackle in the championship qualifier.There was an element of burnout to his loss of form.I believe he won that award largely based on his early season form where he was instrumental in the under 21 All Ireland,form he carried strongly through to that Kildare game.A lack of alternatives and the fact Mayo went to the wire with Dublin in the All Ireland replay swung the award his way.Longevity in the championship was a key factor.He is starting to show a return to form after a significant slump but needs to threaten the scoreboard more.

IMO there's no doubt Dean Rock is the currently the preeminent free taker in the country.Cillian O Connor used to assume that mantle but has gone off the boil and missed those frees that make great players.

Can't say I believe the Shefflin's,Corbett's and Gooch's of this world are overrated,ditto all those heavily decorated Dublin footballers Connolly etc.O Sullivan and Kilkenny are wonderful footballers but their roles in recent years have tempered our ability to extol their virtues.

I really rate the much maligned Michael Dara McAuley,I've seen on numerous occasions most especially in All Ireland finals and semi finals what he brings to the plate.He was a worthy POTY in 2013.

I'd probably rate Flynn ahead of Connolly.

Until the mentioned Mayo players win a celtic cross they won't be in the pantheon of champions.

MactheKnife90

I was going to get involved but the Cluxton comments done it for me. Everyone has an opinion but come on now lads get the aul thinking caps on there now.

Poor_old_gill

nice_guy80 wrote: »

goes around looking for a fight or hitting lads, then tries to get opponents carded.

Yeah- himself and his brother are ridiculous for that carry on

Powerhouse

I notice that Stephen Cluxton, Diarmuid Connolly, Michael Dara McAuley and Ciaran Kilkenny have all featured in the over-rated lists. That's almost a third of the Dublin team and I imagine there's more to come.

It makes you wonder who people think are responsible for Dublin's five recent All Ireland titles.

yop

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

He won it twice !

Yup. Logic doesn't exist.

I'm with MactheKnife on this one. Some of the so called overrated players shows the level of football experts we have here. Anyone who thinks Cluxton or Michael Murphy is over rated needs their head examined.

The_Honeybadger

Powerhouse wrote: »

I notice that Stephen Cluxton, Diarmuid Connolly, Michael Dara McAuley and Ciaran Kilkenny have all featured in the over-rated lists. That's almost a third of the Dublin team and I imagine there's more to come.

It makes you wonder who people think are responsible for Dublin's five recent All Ireland titles.

You can be a top class player and still be overrated. I mentioned Connolly, I would never deny that he is a wonderful player with great skill. My point was that he gets away with a lot of fairly anonymous performances because his highlights reel is good and the fact that Dublin usually win well anyway. There are at least a half dozen dubs who are far more important to that team, yet Connolly is regarded as the best player in the country by many. I just don’t think he is as good as some people make out.

To those saying you can’t be a great player until you win an All Ireland I wouldn’t agree. Conor McManus or Lee Keegan might never win one for example but they are great players that would make any team.

Powerhouse

mickeyk wrote: »

You can be a top class player and still be overrated. I mentioned Connolly, I would never deny that he is a wonderful player with great skill. My point was that he gets away with a lot of fairly anonymous performances because his highlights reel is good and the fact that Dublin usually win well anyway. There are at least a half dozen dubs who are far more important to that team, yet Connolly is regarded as the best player in the country by many. I just don’t think he is as good as some people make out.

To those saying you can’t be a great player until you win an All Ireland I wouldn’t agree. Conor McManus or Lee Keegan might never win one for example but they are great players that would make any team.

Who are the half a dozen plus Dublin players more important than Connolly? And in what way are the "more important"? It just seems a very subjective vague and difficult to measure category.

The_Honeybadger

Powerhouse wrote: »

Who are the half a dozen plus Dublin players more important than Connolly? And in what way are the "more important"? It just seems a very subjective vague and difficult to measure category.

Down through the years Cluxton, Fenton, Brogan, Flynn, O’Sullivan and Kilkenny and you could make strong arguments for others like Mccaffery. None of the above have the natural ability that Diarmuid Connolly has, but they are more consistent and would be missed more if they weren’t playing IMO. I would take any of the above over Connolly if I was looking to improve my team.

You are right in that It is difficult to measure and subjective, but this is a discussion forum where people offer their opinions. I’m not asking anybody to agree with me.

Please also consider the context, Connolly was considered the best player in the country for a couple of years. I just don’t think he has stood out in big games often enough to justify that reputation, and that’s before we even get in to all the daft suspensions.

I don’t consider any of the other Dublin players to be overrated personally.

Powerhouse

mickeyk wrote: »

Down through the years Cluxton, Fenton, Brogan, Flynn, O’Sullivan and Kilkenny and you could make strong arguments for others like Mccaffery. None of the above have the natural ability that Diarmuid Connolly has, but they are more consistent and would be missed more if they weren’t playing IMO. I would take any of the above over Connolly if I was looking to improve my team.

You are right in that It is difficult to measure and subjective, but this is a discussion forum where people offer their opinions. I’m not asking anybody to agree with me.

Please also consider the context, Connolly was considered the best player in the country for a couple of years. I just don’t think he has stood out in big games often enough to justify that reputation, and that’s before we even get in to all the daft suspensions.

I don’t consider any of the other Dublin players to be overrated personally.

I think you have made a powerful case that Connolly is not overrated by saying that Bernard Brogan, who has not been first choice for Dublin for a while, is more important to the team at this stage.